Savage Bard to Swiftblade help

[Bigmchuge]

I'm attempting a Savage Bard to Swiftblade progression and have come into some snags on how to approach it. Below I have a short version explanation and a long version explanation for those wanting more details. I've been allowed to retrain based on the PHB2 rules.

The goal is a melee bard (1h weapon and buckler or 2h weapon preferred). I'm willing to replace Martial Study, since I got it only for intimidation, and have acquired it permanently through the Wereboar affliction. The other benefit of the Martial Study was the use of Vanguard Strike. I'm also willing to give up Snowflake Wardance for something better.

What feats should I get to make my character an on par damage dealer as a Swiftblade? In what order should I get them? Any other general advise about Swiftblade would be welcomed, I was unable to find good resources on a bard Swiftblade that were not dex or TW builds.

Prospective Feats: Power Attack, Combat Casting, Leadership, Landlord, Arcane Strike, Haunting Melody

Short Version:
str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 12, Wis: 10, Cha: 18(cloak of char. +2)

Savage Bard 3 / Bear Totem Barbarian 1
1st level feats: Dodge, Mobility, Lingering Song, Martial Study (Devoted Spirit)
1st level flaws: Brash, No Retreat
3rd level feat: Snowflake Wardance
Wereboar lycanthropy affliction: Improved Initiative, Blind Fight
Swapped out Fascinate for Healing Hymn
Swapped out Spell Breaker Song for Counter

Long Version:
My character is a Vettfang Skald from the Tree Ghost tribe in the north. Between 1st and 3rd level he would charge into battles and was knocked unconscious around 8 times. While at the Thunderbeast's burial mound, Grunwald, there was an attack by lycanthropes. I took on a wereboar in single combat and got gored. My character failed his checks and I didn't actually know he was afflicted until the first full moon. Thanks to the Grey Wolf tribe and DM fiat, I was able to maintain my CG alignment through a series of will saves and beatings. After that my character became a powerhouse. He's currently wielding a Mighty Whip +2, Silver mace for undead, and a broken Legendary Longsword, aka an Ulfberht. Side notes, he performed for Olothontor, the Minstrel Wyrm, and survived but I'm pretty sure he'll be coming back for more singing goodness and has set out on establishing the Ten Totem Trade Guild, which will ensure trade between cities and Uthgardt camps are accosted. My character has an obsession with speed, ancient weapons and military history. It's not enough for him to be fast, but that everyone else be slower too. On the whole he is a good guy, as far as savages go. His view on his own arcane magic is that it is a gift from the Tree Ghost Spirit, but despises other forms of magics, like any good Uthgardt.

[Talya]

I'm attempting a Savage Bard to Swiftblade progression and have come into some snags on how to approach it. Below I have a short version explanation and a long version explanation for those wanting more details. I've been allowed to retrain based on the PHB2 rules.

The goal is a melee bard (1h weapon and buckler or 2h weapon preferred). I'm willing to replace Martial Study, since I got it only for intimidation, and have acquired it permanently through the Wereboar affliction. The other benefit of the Martial Study was the use of Vanguard Strike. I'm also willing to give up Snowflake Wardance for something better.

What feats should I get to make my character an on par damage dealer as a Swiftblade? In what order should I get them? Any other general advise about Swiftblade would be welcomed, I was unable to find good resources on a bard Swiftblade that were not dex or TW builds.

Prospective Feats: Power Attack, Combat Casting, Leadership, Landlord, Arcane Strike, Haunting Melody

Short Version:
str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 12, Wis: 10, Cha: 18(cloak of char. +2)

Savage Bard 3 / Bear Totem Barbarian 1
1st level feats: Dodge, Mobility, Lingering Song, Martial Study (Devoted Spirit)
1st level flaws: Brash, No Retreat
3rd level feat: Snowflake Wardance
Wereboar lycanthropy affliction: Improved Initiative, Blind Fight
Swapped out Fascinate for Healing Hymn
Swapped out Spell Breaker Song for Counter

Long Version:
My character is a Vettfang Skald from the Tree Ghost tribe in the north. Between 1st and 3rd level he would charge into battles and was knocked unconscious around 8 times. While at the Thunderbeast's burial mound, Grunwald, there was an attack by lycanthropes. I took on a wereboar in single combat and got gored. My character failed his checks and I didn't actually know he was afflicted until the first full moon. Thanks to the Grey Wolf tribe and DM fiat, I was able to maintain my CG alignment through a series of will saves and beatings. After that my character became a powerhouse. He's currently wielding a Mighty Whip +2, Silver mace for undead, and a broken Legendary Longsword, aka an Ulfberht. Side notes, he performed for Olothontor, the Minstrel Wyrm, and survived but I'm pretty sure he'll be coming back for more singing goodness and has set out on establishing the Ten Totem Trade Guild, which will ensure trade between cities and Uthgardt camps are accosted. My character has an obsession with speed, ancient weapons and military history. It's not enough for him to be fast, but that everyone else be slower too. On the whole he is a good guy, as far as savages go. His view on his own arcane magic is that it is a gift from the Tree Ghost Spirit, but despises other forms of magics, like any good Uthgardt.

Swiftblade benefits highly from higher level arcane spell slots.

Your current build idea is generally good, but consider this addition:

With your level of barbarian, you cannot qualify for Swiftblade until 9th level (barbarian 1/savage bard 7). That's actually perfect. Swiftblade 1 doesn't even advance spellcasting, so it's a great place to take it. Then take one more level of it.

You're now Barbarian 1/Savage Bard 2/Swiftblade 2. This is where you take Sublime Chord. You don't want more than 2 levels of it. But from here on in, Swiftblade will advance Sublime Chord casting. This will get you the higher level spell slots your abilities rely on that bard casting lacks.

[Bigmchuge]

Thank you for the response.

To clarify, you're suggesting a two level dip into Sublime chord, then going back to Swiftblade?

The wording of the Swiftblade allows me to change the spellcasting levels I gain to that of the Sublime chord so I don't see a problem with it.

What's the benefits of taking two levels of Sublime Chord over one? Is Song of Arcane Power that good? As a rule I typically don't like dips in prestige classes, makes me feel cheesy, but this dip would make me less worried about only getting 1 round of Timestop at level 20.

[Talya]

Thank you for the response.

To clarify, you're suggesting a two level dip into Sublime chord, then going back to Swiftblade?

The wording of the Swiftblade allows me to change the spellcasting levels I gain to that of the Sublime chord so I don't see a problem with it.

What's the benefits of taking two levels of Sublime Chord over one? Is Song of Arcane Power that good? As a rule I typically don't like dips in prestige classes, makes me feel cheesy, but this dip would make me less worried about only getting 1 round of Timestop at level 20.

Well, it's more that the second level of sublime chord doesn't cost you any BAB, it continues to advance Sublime Chord spellcasting, and song of arcane power is pretty darn good, too (though not essential.) Ultimately it doesn't matter if you take your second sublime chord level at 12 or 20, but you're probably gonna take it when you run out of Swiftblade levels.

You're still getting all 10 levels of Swiftblade. This doesn't get you 9th level spells, unfortunately. in fact, you're losing 3 levels of Sublime Chord casting. But you're a darn good gish.

[Bigmchuge]

I had to actually write it out to believe I could take 2 Sublime Chord levels, I'm still not sure about it, but I like it better than what I was planning before. This is what I have laid out for him so far.


1st Level Ability Scores
{table=head]Ability|Score
Str|15
Dex|14
Con|12
Int|12
Wis|8
Cha|15
[/table]

Swiftbard
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Feats|Class Features|Ability Points

1st|Savage Bard 1|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Dodge, Mobility, Lingering Song, Melodic Casting|Spellbreaker song, Bard. Know., Healing Hymn, Ins. Courage +1|

2nd|Barb (Bear) 1|
+1|
+4|
+0|
+2||Toughness, Rage 1/day|

3rd|Savage Bard 2|
+2|
+5|
+0|
+3|Snowflake Wardance|

---|Wereboar|
+4|
+7|
+2|
+4||Alertness, Toughness, Iron Will, Hybrid/Animal Form (Str+4, Con +6)|

4th|Savage Bard 3|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+3||Ins. Competence|Str 16

5th|Savage Bard 4|
+6/1|
+8|
+3|
+4|||

6th|Savage Bard 5|
+6/1|
+8|
+3|
+4|Leadership||

7th|Savage Bard 6|
+7/2|
+9|
+4|
+5||Song of the Heart|

8th|Savage Bard 7|
+8/3|
+9|
+4|
+5|||Cha 16

9th|Swiftblade 1|
+9/4|
+9|
+6|
+7|Landlord|Spring Attack, Swift Surge +1/+0'|

10th|Sublime Chord 1|
+9/4|
+9|
+6|
+9||Bard. Lore, Bard. Know.|

11th|Sublime Chord 2|
+10/5|
+9|
+6|
+10||Song of Arcane power|

12th|Swiftblade 2|
+11/6/1|
+9|
+7|
+11|Power Attack|Blurred alacrity|Cha 17

13th|Swiftblade 3|
+12/7/2|
+10|
+7|
+11||Sudden Casting|

14th|Swiftblade 4|
+13/8/3|
+10|
+8|
+12||Arcane reflexes, S. Surge +1/+10'|

15th|Swiftblade 5|
+14/9/4|
+10|
+8|
+12|Arcane Strike|Evasive Celerity|

16th|Swiftblade 6|
+15/10/5|
+11|
+9|
+13||Fortified Hustle|Cha 18

17th|Swiftblade 7|
+16/11/6/1|
+11|
+9|
+13||Bounding Assault, S. Surge +2/+10'|

18th|Swiftblade 8|
+17/12/7/2|
+11|
+10|
+14|Words of Creation (need +3 int. item)|Diligent rapidity|

19th|Swiftblade 9|
+18/13/8/3|
+12|
+10|
+14||Perpetual Options|

20th|Swiftblade 10|
+19/14/9/4|
+12|
+11|
+15||Innervated Speed, S. Surge +2/+20'|Cha 19[/table]


But I'm pretty proud of him so far. I'm also considering investing in a Ring of Tumbling +15 so I can make the DC 40 check to make a 10' instead of the regular 5' step. Not sure if it'll be necessary though. If there's anything you spot that you think could be improved, please let me know. Thank for all the help so far.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Is your DM allowing you to ignore the penalties associated with the Wereboar template (+2/+3 LA, 3 Animal HD)?

[Bigmchuge]

Is your DM allowing you to ignore the penalties associated with the Wereboar template (+2/+3 LA, 3 Animal HD)?

The only penalties i'm aware of are silver, LA +2, and allignment. He's allowing us to use the LA buyoff system. I elected to only get 2HD from the wereboar instead of 3, to keep me and the werewolf in the group on the same leveling progression. I'm fine with the silver penalty, and he allowed me to go through a trial to keep my alllignment. 3 consecutive will saves where the dc was something like 10 +damage received. I had to burn an action point to make one of them.

Am I missing one, or more?

[Bigmchuge]

I talked to my DM about it and since it is a "tier 3" only campaign he's not to keen on me getting higher level spells, 7th level and up. That being said, Sublime Chord's spell progression might be off the table for me. He's willing to work with me to let Sublime Chord work, and he may still allow it, but if I can avoid the hassle that'd be preferable. Also I like having contingency spells, I mean plans just in case its a no go.

Without higher level spells then 6th level, and without Sublime chord, what are my options?

[macdaddy]

Why Bear totem barbarian? Doesn't that just give you toughness? Most people take Lion totem for Pounce at 1st level. Personally, I think its kind of cheesy myself.

Personally, I think Melodic Casting is better than Lingering song, but if you plan on raging, Lingering song is better.... Regardless, you do NOT need both.

Personally, I think snowflake wardance is kind of pointless unless you can manage to squeeze in two weapon fighting. Remember, you can only wield your weapon in one hand. With Power Attack, even wielding a long sword 2 handed is MUCH better for damage output than snowflake and two weapon fighting.

I am not that familiar with the Landlord feat, but if its the one from 3.0, then doesn't it just give you $$? That seems pretty pointless to me.

[Bigmchuge]

Why Bear totem barbarian? Doesn't that just give you toughness? Most people take Lion totem for Pounce at 1st level. Personally, I think its kind of cheesy myself.

Personally, I think Melodic Casting is better than Lingering song, but if you plan on raging, Lingering song is better.... Regardless, you do NOT need both.

Personally, I think snowflake wardance is kind of pointless unless you can manage to squeeze in two weapon fighting. Remember, you can only wield your weapon in one hand. With Power Attack, even wielding a long sword 2 handed is MUCH better for damage output than snowflake and two weapon fighting.

I am not that familiar with the Landlord feat, but if its the one from 3.0, then doesn't it just give you $$? That seems pretty pointless to me.

I had no choice in the Bear totem. I took Melodic Casting to replace the Concentration requirement for Swiftblade with my performance skill. I'm willing to swap out Snowflake Wardance, I'm just not sure what to replace it with. It was great at lower levels, but it's becoming a burden at higher levels, and 10 minutes of exhaustion is a pain. I'm taking Landlord for RP reasons. Another team member and I are doing it to generate a residual income in-game.

The DM said he's willing to let me swap out the Barbarian level for a Bard level. This would let me have 2 5th level spells, 0 6th level spells at level 20. Not counting bonus spells. So if I can get my charisma to 30, I'll have 2 6th level spells for Innervate speed. I'm really sad about not being able to use the 10th level feature of this Prc, but I'm to invested into this character to scratch him.