The Healer

[Asteron]

I've read about how bad the healer class is and after looking at it, it does seem to live up to some of the talk. My thought was what if you made the healer like the Beguiler and made it a spontaneous caster with access to it's entire spell list?

It has a fairly limited spell list, so it's not like they have a lot of overwhelming options.

[Malimar]

That's the most common house rule for Healers, yes. It, plus adding in some of the various healing spells from SpC and BoED and other places, might increase their tier from 5 to 4; from "crap at a single sub-par activity" to "half-decent at a single sub-par activity".

[eggynack]

They get significantly better once you account for sanctified spells. Some of those things are sweet, almost to the point where making the healer spontaneous could reduce their power, because it would mean losing access. I don't think sanctified spells make them all that much better at healing though.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Making them a beguiler-style fixed list caster would be a great help, aye. You should probably also pump up Healing Hands (+level+Wis?), since healing spells never do enough until Heal comes online.

To be really nice, they could use an expanded list-- not just new healing spells, but defensive buffs, and maybe even a few more offensive "nonlethal" spells like Hold Person or Whelm.

[weckar]

Let's face it: it is a class that has vulnerability as a class feature. It's not going to get great. I do know of a decent ACF for it though. It's called 'Disciplined Healing' and replaced the Skill Focus (Heal). Basically, it allows any spells to be cast at +1 CL but if they are cast this way they have to be treated as Arcane spells.

[Thurbane]

A Healer who picked up heavy armor proficiency via a dip could wear dragonhide plate, or any other non-metal armor.

Maybe grab the Apprentice (spellcaster) feat for UMD as a class skill.

[GutterFace]

Psha after play test the best Healer i have ever had was taking 2 levels of Spellfire Channeler

you can heal by burning charges you stored earlier. even with a modest Con score you can out heal anyone at your level.
even with lets say a 15 con score. that's a spellfire level of (max) 30.
(1d4+1)*30. in any increment you need and you can recharge when needed.

[Asteron]

Let's face it: it is a class that has vulnerability as a class feature. It's not going to get great. I do know of a decent ACF for it though. It's called 'Disciplined Healing' and replaced the Skill Focus (Heal). Basically, it allows any spells to be cast at +1 CL but if they are cast this way they have to be treated as Arcane spells.

What book is this in?

The +1 caster level can be gained from the Touch of Healing feat.

[weckar]

It's a homebrew I got somewhere. I kind of liked it because it lends progression versatility without being broken.

[ngilop]

Hello. :)

I did a Healer Re-tool (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272245). I decided to expand upon the healing aspect and add in some support spells ( like bear' s endurance and haste) expanded the healing with Vigor and cocoon and included several debuffs like hold persona dna repulsio

then i slaped ina TON fo anti undead spells liek anger of the noonday sus, holy storm, living undeath etc.

Take a look and glean any idea you want from my class, or heck just ask to use the whole thing if you want. it not anywhere close to game breaking anyways.

[weckar]

While in concept the re-tool is fun, for once I'd like to see a healing archetype that's not concerned with the undead one bit.

[Zaq]

While in concept the re-tool is fun, for once I'd like to see a healing archetype that's not concerned with the undead one bit.

Dragon Shaman (aura of FH + Lay on Hands), Crusader (Devoted Spirit), Incarnate with Lifebond Vestments and other healy-type melds, Egoist, Ardent with the Life mantle . . .

The healing archetypes that tend to be the most effective are also anti-undead, sure, but they're not the only viable option in 3.5. (I left out a couple other classes/characters who can heal, but who aren't necessarily a "healing archetype.")

[Grod_The_Giant]

While in concept the re-tool is fun, for once I'd like to see a healing archetype that's not concerned with the undead one bit.
How 'bout a prestige class? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317823) Or maybe T.G.Oskar's re-tool (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118)?

[NotScaryBats]

Yeah, the class is entirely reactive, so a Healer that wins initiative basically can't do anything with its turn. Then, you just run around and throw out cure and remove spells. At least, that's how the class is meant to played as far as I can tell.

Not exactly fun for most people.

[eggynack]

I think the sanctified spells thing I mentioned helps a lot. There's a good number of them, and they are often quite good, especially when you add the small list from champions of valor. Everything from blasting, to buffs, to minionmancy, to divinations, to debuffs. it's a list of spells that's likely enough to justify a boost to tier four, if you make use of it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think the sanctified spells thing I mentioned helps a lot. There's a good number of them, and they are often quite good, especially when you add the small list from champions of valor. Everything from blasting, to buffs, to minionmancy, to divinations, to debuffs. it's a list of spells that's likely enough to justify a boost to tier four, if you make use of it.
The right build can probably get up to T3. Ten levels of Soverign Speaker for domain access... maybe take a one-level Binder dip so you can use Nabarius to offset the ability damage from Sanctified spells...

[eggynack]

The right build can probably get up to T3. Ten levels of Soverign Speaker for domain access... maybe take a one-level Binder dip so you can use Nabarius to offset the ability damage from Sanctified spells...
It definitely seems plausible. You can usually get a tier jump with a proper build though. What I'm claiming is that the healer is actually a tier four class on the merits of its abilities alone, once you take those spells into account. Also, healers happen to be really good at healing ability damage and drain. It's all internally synergistic and stuff.

[Seerow]

The right build can probably get up to T3. Ten levels of Soverign Speaker for domain access... maybe take a one-level Binder dip so you can use Nabarius to offset the ability damage from Sanctified spells...

I thought Sovereign Speaker was one of those weird 6 or 7 level prestige classes.

Edit: Apparently 9 levels. Knew it was weird, but closer to 10 than not I guess. Still I'm not sure that going past that 5th level is worth it.

[Asteron]

What do you guys think about this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118) version?

I was going to do a retool myself, but I really suck at homebrew so I thought I'd see if someone else had done it first...

I'm also looking at ngilop's version referenced above.

[Zombulian]

It's funny, I made a thread like this probably about a year ago and the answers were basically the same. If sanctified spells are open to you, go with that, otherwise the set spell list is pretty nice.

[Seerow]

What do you guys think about this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118) version?

I was going to do a retool myself, but I really suck at homebrew so I thought I'd see if someone else had done it first...

I'm also looking at ngilop's version referenced above.

Yeah T.G. Oskar's stuff is top notch.

[Asteron]

Yeah T.G. Oskar's stuff is top notch.

I'll say. I just bookmarked the post in his signature with all of his homebrew. Loving the Warlock.

[eggynack]

It's funny, I made a thread like this probably about a year ago and the answers were basically the same. If sanctified spells are open to you, go with that, otherwise the set spell list is pretty nice.
I don't know if that's a good thing or not. I like to think that the march towards ultimate optimization is a never ending one, but perhaps our analysis of the healer has become stagnant. Perhaps, in fact, there is nothing more to say. Still, on the other hand, it is a good thing, I suppose, that we can lay claim to the same wisdom of our past selves, and know at the same time that we were not fools in all ways in days gone by. Maybe stagnation of this form is good, because it means that we can learn more about other forms of optimization, and our stagnation here can mean greater growth elsewhere. I can't help but feel that it's a sad thing though, as that is a natural thing for even the death of the least amongst us.

[Akal Saris]

I actually have a guide for the Healer class in my sig. It has a few more suggestions for making an effective healer, but certainly sanctified spells are many of the best options on the healer's list. In addition, I think the healer does decently by taking metamagic feats to help cover for the weaker spell levels.

Of course, if homebrew is allowed, then by all means I would encourage players to try one of the excellent reworks that have been done.

[Crake]

They get significantly better once you account for sanctified spells. Some of those things are sweet, almost to the point where making the healer spontaneous could reduce their power, because it would mean losing access. I don't think sanctified spells make them all that much better at healing though.

I was under the impression sanctified spells were on everyone's spell list, and since beguiler-like spellcasters have spontaneous access to their entire spell list, they have spontaneous access to the sanctified spell list?

I'd understand if it were sorcerer-like spellcasting, since they'd have access to sanctified spells, but would still need to PICK them to be able to cast them?

[eggynack]

I was under the impression sanctified spells were on everyone's spell list, and since beguiler-like spellcasters have spontaneous access to their entire spell list, they have spontaneous access to the sanctified spell list?
It's only on the list of prepared casters.

[Crake]

It's only on the list of prepared casters.

Oh damn, you're right... hmm :smalleek: I'll need to bring that to the attention of one of my DM's, I'm playing a beguiler and he's been giving me access to sanctified spells. I'm looking to go into exalted arcanist though, so that will give me legit access to them, phew.

[Asteron]

How 'bout a prestige class? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317823) Or maybe T.G.Oskar's re-tool (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118)?

I totally missed that you posted Oskar's retool... Yeah, I'm using that. I'll probably drop the medium armor proficiency for light armor and Wisdom to AC ( although they don't have to wear armor to get it.)

This will be for a cohort for one of my players. I'm going to give her Vows of Nonviolence and peace. I was also thinking about giving her Vow of Poverty. Would that be a bad choice?

If I do, I'm probably going to bump the ability score bonus to level 5 and every 4 levels after that. Also, at level 11, it gets supernatural flight (50 ft/good). Does that help cover some of the deficiencies?

[Seerow]

Vow of Poverty isn't as crippling for an NPC (who you probably don't want to micromanage as much, and has a lower WBL than the equivalent level PC anyway), but personally I'd still recommend avoiding it. Being able to toss your cohort loot that nobody in the party can use (or wants to use) can be useful. It'll be particularly annoying the first time the group gets a random wand of CLW or Vigor or Lesser Restoration or something along those lines, and just vend it because the Healer would break his vows to use them.

[Asteron]

Vow of Poverty isn't as crippling for an NPC (who you probably don't want to micromanage as much, and has a lower WBL than the equivalent level PC anyway), but personally I'd still recommend avoiding it. Being able to toss your cohort loot that nobody in the party can use (or wants to use) can be useful. It'll be particularly annoying the first time the group gets a random wand of CLW or Vigor or Lesser Restoration or something along those lines, and just vend it because the Healer would break his vows to use them.

Good point on the wands... I'll reconsider that one.

[Doc_Maynot]

The right build can probably get up to T3. Ten levels of Soverign Speaker for domain access... maybe take a one-level Binder dip so you can use Nabarius to offset the ability damage from Sanctified spells...

No need for the binder dip. Just the Mitigate Suffering reserve feat.
Also if Dragonlance material is available try for the Healing hand of Mishakal PrC and the Dynamic Priest feat (Since Healer DCs are already Cha based)


Oh damn, you're right... hmm :smalleek: I'll need to bring that to the attention of one of my DM's, I'm playing a beguiler and he's been giving me access to sanctified spells. I'm looking to go into exalted arcanist though, so that will give me legit access to them, phew.

The Arcane Preparation feat should let you use them too.

[Person_Man]

Here's my hombrew Healer fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318414) for consideration.

In my opinion, there are four main problems with the Healer:

1) It doesn't get it's Companion until level 8. So until that time, it has nothing to do in combat other then healing or removing status conditions (unless you're fighting undead). So my fix gives you a Celestial Companion at level 1. So you basically always have another Tier 4 meat shield to attack with (and Share Spells with, making it very difficult to kill).

2) It's spells are memorized. So you basically have to guess which status conditions you want to remove that day, and every time you memorize Remove Paralysis or Flesh to Stone or whatnot, you're actually decreasing the number of resources you have available to heal. So I use spontaneous, Beguiler style casting (short thematic list, you can cast anything on your list).

3) MAD. It really should just be Wis or Cha SAD.

4) Many of the class abilities basically just duplicate spells. So I give it new more useful abilities which make your healing magic better.