Witch DMG Help

[hirojinbrodie]

I have been wanting to play a witch from the DMG (Pg. 174) for some time now and may soon have the chance. The class does have a interesting mix, with a emphasis on charms and form changing spells. My difficulty is dealing with the restriction of damage spells and other things. Any suggestions on how to best use the spells given, feats, and anything else would be appreciated. I haven't seen much investigation into this variant and I am interested to see what can be done with it.

[shylocke]

Buff the party and boost your divination. Become the wise shaman type.

[hirojinbrodie]

The thing is, most people see the variant and then mention the pathfinder witch. Not many seem to think it is worth using though i think in the right campaign it should be able to work. It utilizes spells from several different lists. I would imagine that some possibilities are capable with this, but very little investigation into the variant has been done in that respect.

[KoboldMasteRace]

Two necessary questions: One, is it Core-only? And if the answer to that is no, would it be worth inspecting potential thematic editions from SpC? My advice will be based on the answers to these questions.

[hirojinbrodie]

It is not core only, and I would imagine some additions would help quite a bit. Also potential PrC's would help too.

[Curmudgeon]

The basic problem is that the Witch isn't a finished class. What are its proficiencies? Its skills? Other class features? Your individual DM might make something up, but we can't help with advice for using essentially half a class.

[hirojinbrodie]

Well I'm assuming that it would keep all the qualities of a normal sorcerer including proficiencies and such. The one point that I have seen people argue about is whether or not they know spells as a sorcerer does or if instead it would make more sense that they know all their spells, and have spells per day of a sorcerer. This would be up to the DM, but some have argued that in order for it to be viable for play, that they should work as a beguiler does in terms of spells known considering their list is so small.

[Thurbane]

Well I'm assuming that it would keep all the qualities of a normal sorcerer including proficiencies and such. The one point that I have seen people argue about is whether or not they know spells as a sorcerer does or if instead it would make more sense that they know all their spells, and have spells per day of a sorcerer. This would be up to the DM, but some have argued that in order for it to be viable for play, that they should work as a beguiler does in terms of spells known considering their list is so small.
That would be a significant boost in power, and not RAI since Beguiler-type casters didn't appear until the Miniatures Handbook (Warmage) after the 3.5 DMG was published.

I don't think it would make them much more powerful than a Dread Necromancer or Beguiler though, especially with only a Sorcerer's class features. It would still outclass the Warmage IMHO.

[hirojinbrodie]

So should I work with my DM to come up with something? What class features should I be looking at? You would think knowledge's would be important feature, though I agree with the use of Charisma to fuel spell casting. What feats can I take to help? I know there is the human(ish) only feat Able Learner that would help expand my options, and Prc's like Mindbender that plays along with the concept. Or am I simply trying to do too much with too little?