Monster World [3.P thought experiment]

[Tanuki Tales]

So, I just had an idea pop into my noggin while beginning to read Something Awful's review on Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix III (looking at the cover is really what inspired the thought):

What if there were no "base races" and only "monsters" (basically taking the concept of Droaam from 3.5's Eberron setting and impose it on a planetary scale)? What kind of civilizations and power structures would exist in a world devoid of humanity, dwarves, elves and the orcish horde? Would fantastic racism still exist without the base races to create it? Would there even be a concept of "monster" and classic "good and evil" (not universal) or were those notions imposed by the base races and their gods?

What would "Monster World" be like?

[Shining Wrath]

Per Magic of Incarnum, Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos are real, tangible things, quite aside from the gods. An Incarnate *is* a being of their alignment. Therefore, I say that on Monster World the ethical and moral concepts still exist.

Further, I say that there would be Good monsters, although they might have to live their lives in hiding or flee their Evil kindred. There are some "monster" gods that are good aligned; Bahamut comes to mind.

And it only takes one gold ancient wyrm to focus the attention of an entire tribe of goblins on the possibility of living differently.

Given that there are good aligned creatures in the Monster Manual, the good gods still exist even if their normal worshipers don't, et cetera, I think what you'd find is that Good "broke through" and converted some non-good monsters to be good.

Whether or not the good aligned tribes would be more successful than their evil kin depends on too many matters of opinion to resolve.

[Tanuki Tales]

Per Magic of Incarnum, Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos are real, tangible things, quite aside from the gods. An Incarnate *is* a being of their alignment. Therefore, I say that on Monster World the ethical and moral concepts still exist.


Thank you for completely ignoring where I point out that I'm not talking about those concepts as universal constants but in a classical sense.

Edit:

Also, if the base races never existed, why would gods like Moradin still exist?

[Doorhandle]

So, I just had an idea pop into my noggin while beginning to read Something Awful's review on Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix III (looking at the cover is really what inspired the thought):

What if there were no "base races" and only "monsters" (basically taking the concept of Droaam from 3.5's Eberron setting and impose it on a planetary scale)? What kind of civilizations and power structures would exist in a world devoid of humanity, dwarves, elves and the orcish horde? Would fantastic racism still exist without the base races to create it? Would there even be a concept of "monster" and classic "good and evil" (not universal) or were those notions imposed by the base races and their gods?

What would "Monster World" be like?

Fantastic racism would still probably exist, and would perhaps make more sense: If your neighbours can kill with a glare, you're not going to like them much, and if your neigherbors can't do that but you can, you're not going to think of them highly.

It's likely that empires would still spring up. In particular, giants are likely to have both the strength and numbers needed to conquer huge areas.

Gorgons/Medusas would also have a good time of it: Having to save against so many petrifying glares at once would basically allow them to make their civilisation upon the petrified bodies of all who would ever oppose them.

I think shape-shifting races, like Rakasha, would still have their niches, although they'd probably have much more difficulty hiding as everything would be bigger than them. They'd probably be endangered.

Infectious races, like vampires, would either be too weak to infect anything good and thus go into extinction, or reach new and terrifying heights of awesome. (http://asgodnintendo.deviantart.com/art/Vlad-Bunyan-Kaiju-eater-141169730)

Not sure what would happen to mind-flayers though...they'd still have brains to eat, I guess, but it would be very risky to get them.

Dragons would have much the same role, although they'd perhaps be spared the humiliation of being murdered by a "lesser" being.


Also, if the base races never existed, why would gods like Moradin still exist?

Moradin would probably find some other race to bring into the fold: possibly salamanders or fire giants. There's enough sapient monsters to pick up the slack left behind by the absence of P.C races.

[Tanuki Tales]

Fantastic racism would still probably exist, and would perhaps make more sense: If your neighbours can kill with a glare, you're not going to like them much, and if your neigherbors can't do that but you can, you're not going to think of them highly.

Is that Fantastic racism or just pragmatism?


It's likely that empires would still spring up. In particular, giants are likely to have both the strength and numbers needed to conquer huge areas.

Hello Xendrik. :smalltongue:


Gorgons/Medusas would also have a good time of it: Having to save against so many petrifying glares at once would basically allow them to make their civilisation upon the petrified bodies of all who would ever oppose them.

That's a pretty neat concept; I wonder why it's never been used before.


I think shape-shifting races, like Rakasha, would still have their niches, although they'd probably have much more difficulty hiding as everything would be bigger than them. They'd probably be endangered.

Classic Rakshasa? Sure. Pathfinder ones would be fine, as they're more than just the tigers from 3.X. Rakshasa are supposed to be embodiments of debauchery and taboo, so if there was something approaching a "Lawful Good" society, they'd exist. Whether they'd still be the same statted entity is another question entirely.


Infectious races, like vampires, would either be too weak to infect anything good and thus go into extinction, or reach new and terrifying heights of awesome. (http://asgodnintendo.deviantart.com/art/Vlad-Bunyan-Kaiju-eater-141169730)

I...I can't put into words the gratitude I have towards you. Thank you so much. :smallbiggrin:


Not sure what would happen to mind-flayers though...they'd still have brains to eat, I guess, but it would be very risky to get them.

Well, if goblinoids still exist, they'd have them.


Dragons would have much the same role, although they'd perhaps be spared the humiliation of being murdered by a "lesser" being.

But would lose so many delicious snack races in the bargain.




Moradin would probably find some other race to bring into the fold: possibly salamanders or fire giants. There's enough sapient monsters to pick up the slack left behind by the absence of P.C races.

I guess it depends on how gods would be handled, but I still question Moradin existing as his usual self (or any of the racial deities). Why would there still be Dwarf gods if there are no Dwarves? Either the god never came to exist because a race creates their gods via belief or they wouldn't be the same god, as they never created the race that they were defined by as overseer to.