Shao Kahn vs Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors/Warriors Orochi)

[ArlEammon]

Shao Kahn. . . Emperor of Outworld, lord of war, assassin of Onaga, great sorcerer, consumer of souls and equal in combat to gods, is a mighty warrior with his war hammer, and is quite possibly one of the most powerful Kombatant of the Mortal Kombat Tournaments. He can conjure eldritch weapons to hurl at enemies with his super human arms.

Lu Bu. . . Fengxian. . . greatest warrior of the Three Kingdom Era (Well, just before the Three Kingdoms Era), a greater fighter than even Guan Yu, at least by the time that they meet. . .was only defeated by the combined assault by the Three Brothers. . . Guan Yu, who would later be known as a god of war, Zhang Fei, who was one of the greatest generals and warriors of the land, and Liu Bei, who, while not a god of war or close to one, was highly more skilled in combat than an average soldier. Lu Bu was capable of defeating Orochi in Warriors Orochi. (The original one). Orochi, one of the greatest warriors in either Japan or China. . .

Lu Bu's skill with his halberd is legendary, as is his super human strength and martial art's skill.

[Traab]

Lu Bu would be an awesome combatant, but in the end he has no mystical powers to attack or defend with, and shao khan, iirc, has conquered a thousand worlds through mortal combat and warfare, or some insane number like that

[MLai]

Shao Kahn's not real. He loses, and so does the oiled bodybuilder who cosplayed as him in the game.

[Fan]

He's not.. real is your argument?

Okay.

Shao Khan kills Lu Bu before he can raise a hand in defense, even with a wall between them, with Lu Bu's full force and all his friends, and the entire collected armies of modern earth on his side.

[Tebryn]

Shao Kahn. . . Emperor of Outworld, lord of war, assassin of Onaga, great sorcerer, consumer of souls and equal in combat to gods, is a mighty warrior with his war hammer, and is quite possibly one of the most powerful Kombatant of the Mortal Kombat Tournaments. He can conjure eldritch weapons to hurl at enemies with his super human arms.

Lu Bu. . . Fengxian. . . greatest warrior of the Three Kingdom Era (Well, just before the Three Kingdoms Era), a greater fighter than even Guan Yu, at least by the time that they meet. . .was only defeated by the combined assault by the Three Brothers. . . Guan Yu, who would later be known as a god of war, Zhang Fei, who was one of the greatest generals and warriors of the land, and Liu Bei, who, while not a god of war or close to one, was highly more skilled in combat than an average soldier. Lu Bu was capable of defeating Orochi in Warriors Orochi. (The original one). Orochi, one of the greatest warriors in either Japan or China. . .

Lu Bu's skill with his halberd is legendary, as is his super human strength and martial art's skill.

That's not how Lu Bu was defeated. :smallconfused: Was that in the Dynasty Warrior games? Because it's totally different than the Romance.

But Shao Kahn wins, no argument.

[gurgleflep]

Shao Kahn versus Lu Bu? Shao Kahn. He's got all his magical stuff, and even if he gets miraculously killed by Lu Bu and his allies, he's got means of coming back from the dead.

[Starwulf]

There needs to be better defined terms of engagement in this: Is it just a straight up one on one fight? Where is it held? If it's not one on one, who has to fight through what to get to the other?

In almost any case, I'd almost certainly have to give the victory to Shao Kahn. Immensely powerful, virtually a god, and has conquered hundreds/thousands of worlds, all of which had their own "Powerful champions" that had to be beaten before he could enslave them. Only if it was a "Shao Kahn must fight through X amount of super-powerful people before he finally gets to Lu Bu" scenario do I see Lu Bu having a chance, due to Shao Kahn possibly be running low on power, and even then.....one's a mortal, the other is a step above.

[Fan]

There needs to be better defined terms of engagement in this: Is it just a straight up one on one fight? Where is it held? If it's not one on one, who has to fight through what to get to the other?

In almost any case, I'd almost certainly have to give the victory to Shao Kahn. Immensely powerful, virtually a god, and has conquered hundreds/thousands of worlds, all of which had their own "Powerful champions" that had to be beaten before he could enslave them. Only if it was a "Shao Kahn must fight through X amount of super-powerful people before he finally gets to Lu Bu" scenario do I see Lu Bu having a chance, due to Shao Kahn possibly be running low on power, and even then.....one's a mortal, the other is a step above.

If Shao Khan isn't restrained by the laws of mortal kombat he can drain the souls from an entire planet.

See: The start of MK 3. Where everyone on earth had their souls ripped outside from Cyrax (who doesn't have a soul) and Raiden's directly protected few.

[MLai]

So what about if Shao Kahn *is* restrained by the arena physics of MK? That is, like in the game, he is unable to kill a normal human with one blow.

If we then say Lu Bu is as good as any pro fighting game champion player, then he easily defeats Shao Kahn by virtue of fighting skill.

[Fan]

So what about if Shao Kahn *is* restrained by the arena physics of MK? That is, like in the game, he is unable to kill a normal human with one blow.

If we then say Lu Bu is as good as any pro fighting game champion player, then he easily defeats Shao Kahn by virtue of fighting skill.

No, except he's not.

This is also the Dynasty Warriors version of Lu Bu, so if we assume Shao Khan is anyone with.. even the tiniest bit of skill because those games aren't hard. Then he should easily be able to beat him. /sarcasm because that's an awful argument.

Also, even restrained by the laws of Mortal Kombat. Shao Khan can still down a veteran of mortal kombat in a single blow.

See: MK: Annihilation.

Dude wipes out Lu Bu and his entire planet even so, given he's as strong as Raiden who when bound by Mortal Kombat can plow through meters of solid concrete unphased. Even if they managed to bring siege weaponry down on Shao Khan it wouldn't hurt him. There is nothing in Lu Bu's dyansty warrior games that could hurt Shao Khan.

[Devonix]

No, except he's not.

This is also the Dynasty Warriors version of Lu Bu, so if we assume Shao Khan is anyone with.. even the tiniest bit of skill because those games aren't hard. Then he should easily be able to beat him. /sarcasm because that's an awful argument.

Also, even restrained by the laws of Mortal Kombat. Shao Khan can still down a veteran of mortal kombat in a single blow.

See: MK: Annihilation.

Dude wipes out Lu Bu and his entire planet even so, given he's as strong as Raiden who when bound by Mortal Kombat can plow through meters of solid concrete unphased. Even if they managed to bring siege weaponry down on Shao Khan it wouldn't hurt him. There is nothing in Lu Bu's dyansty warrior games that could hurt Shao Khan.

This.

Also Mortal Kombat humans are far from just being normal experienced fighters. They have flash step capability, some can outright teleport, fly. Shoot energy blasts capable of shattering mountains. This is a tier higher than just a big guy with a halberd.

[Traab]

An apt comparison would be Christopher Reeve Superman versus Silver Age comic Superman. Sure both are Superman, its just.... one is a wee bit more "super" than the other. The gap isnt THAT huge, but its still a similar problem. Shao Khan is the ultimate warrior on hundreds of worlds, he has led campaigns to conquer more planets than Lu Bu has had battlefields. He is stronger, faster, more skilled, more experienced, has superhuman abilities while Lu Bu has none, there just isnt a single factor that Lu Bu isnt hopelessly outmatched in. Even army versus army, Lu Bu at his height couldnt even approach the raw numbers, let alone raw power, of Shao Khan's forces.

[Hyena]

Well, I don't think Shao Kahn can defeat all the mortal soldiers in the world. After all, he can be defeated by Kurtis Stryker.

[Traab]

I dont think you can count video game play as canon, only the events covered in the storyline. Otherwise you would have games like world of warcraft with incredibly complicated stories trying to explain why this guild or that guild was the first to kill this or that threat.

*EDIT* As an example, in the first MK game, it doesnt matter which character you beat shang tsung with, in mk 2 the credit goes to liu kang iirc.

[ArlEammon]

All of you are missing the point. This is Dynasty Warriors/ Warriors Orochi Lu Bu. Orochi is a lot like Shao Kahn in that series.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, I don't think Shao Kahn can defeat all the mortal soldiers in the world. After all, he can be defeated by Kurtis Stryker.

Unrestricted Shao Khan is a planet buster though.

[Fan]

The gap between power levels here is greater than the difference between a fly landing on your skin, and the entire modern planet's nuclear armaments. Just in striking strength alone.

Movespeed difference is greater than a baby's crawling and the world's fastest jet.

This is also, all ignoring that Shao Khan can just rip his soul out from the otherside of the planet.

This is a stomp so hard it cracks the planet and the shockwave breaks the moon in half.

[Traab]

The gap between power levels here is greater than the difference between a fly landing on your skin, and the entire modern planet's nuclear armaments. Just in striking strength alone.

Movespeed difference is greater than a baby's crawling and the world's fastest jet.

This is also, all ignoring that Shao Khan can just rip his soul out from the otherside of the planet.

This is a stomp so hard it cracks the planet and the shockwave breaks the moon in half.


Basically this, it takes a lot of restrictions like forcing it into a mortal combat tournament with all included rules just to hobble shao khan enough so he has a reason to show up to kill him instead of doing it from a world away before the fight even starts.

[ArlEammon]

You realize Lu Bu can kill this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp3raD5IRYs

That "Orochi" guy?

[Fan]

You realize Lu Bu can kill this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp3raD5IRYs

That "Orochi" guy?

You do realize that means absolutely nothing. He isn't cracking a planet there, he isn't sucking the souls out of every single living being on the planet at once.

He isn't driving his head through meters of concrete without being phased. He's demonstrating some modest energy projection ability that doesn't have the capacity to kill a person, and is at best comparable to a force push, or a blast from a cannon shell for the big one he has to stand still for.

That is absolutely unimpressive for the context of this fight.

[ArlEammon]

You do realize that means absolutely nothing. He isn't cracking a planet there, he isn't sucking the souls out of every single living being on the planet at once.

He isn't driving his head through meters of concrete without being phased. He's demonstrating some modest energy projection ability that doesn't have the capacity to kill a person, and is at best comparable to a force push, or a blast from a cannon shell for the big one he has to stand still for.

That is absolutely unimpressive for the context of this fight.

First paragraph makes sense, second one doesn't. If you can survive being cut apart with swords and axes you could probably survive having your head driven through meters of concrete without being phased. His energy projection isn't comparable to a force push, it's definitely a pretty dangerous and lethal ability, but I see your point.

[gurgleflep]

General consensus: Shao Kahn wins. Flawless Victory!
FATALITY!!

Forget the versus, Lu Bu should just attempt to join Shao Kahn's forces. Shao Kahn seems to be all for large armies and I'm pretty sure Lu Bu would rather himself and his military force live :smalltongue: Maybe he could get some minor magical stuff for himself and his army worked into it.

[Fan]

First paragraph makes sense, second one doesn't. If you can survive being cut apart with swords and axes you could probably survive having your head driven through meters of concrete without being phased. His energy projection isn't comparable to a force push, it's definitely a pretty dangerous and lethal ability, but I see your point.

No..

No you couldn't, the vast difference in the amount of energy required to plow your head through rock and given Newton's second law how much force it puts on you IS MASSIVELY DIFFERENT FROM BEING STABBED. The difference is in literal tonnage of TNT. Like, a street guy shanking you versus a literal bomb that levels the top two floors of a building. This is while restrained by the laws of Mortal Kombat.

[Tanuki Tales]

What about the video was meant to be impressive?

[ArlEammon]

No..

No you couldn't, the vast difference in the amount of energy required to plow your head through rock and given Newton's second law how much force it puts on you IS MASSIVELY DIFFERENT FROM BEING STABBED. The difference is in literal tonnage of TNT. Like, a street guy shanking you versus a literal bomb that levels the top two floors of a building. This is while restrained by the laws of Mortal Kombat.

You forget that the Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors are super human, plowing through hundreds and thousands of soldiers at once. It isn't realistic warriors like Lu Bu from the novel, (Well realistic compared to Dynasty Warriors). It isn't normal swordsmen and axemen going up against someone and cutting them up, it's people who can wield pillars from buildings as weapons (Meng Huo), people who can fight and slay entire armies by their lonesome selves (The entire cast). These are super humans who can strike much harder than an Olympian of today.

[Tanuki Tales]

So...basically you're saying they're Captain America?

So...peak human, not flat superhuman?

Against someone who can bust multi-story buildings and take blockbusters while restricted?

[ArlEammon]

So...basically you're saying they're Captain America?

So...peak human, not flat superhuman?

Against someone who can bust multi-story buildings and take blockbusters while restricted?

I don't think that Captain America, or Spider Man, would stand a chance. Even Wolverine would find it quite difficult to compete with them. No, I'm not saying their Peak-Human.

Their abilities are all over the place though. Their lesser members can still probably wipe the floor with Spider Man and Captain America. Their heaviest hitters, like Susanoo could probably be an X-Man villain.

Lu Bu's not exactly the top of the heavy hitter's list in Warriors Orochi, I think WO developed something like Dragon Ball Z syndrome by the time of Warriors Orochi III. Lu Bu is, however, quite strong enough to be greater than almost any Mortal Kombatant. Although I suppose in this case he would need a Mortal Kombat Tournament in order to compete with Shao Kahn. Which would probably mean he wins.

[Fan]

Building pillars isn't all that impressive, just gives them tonnage in lifting strength.

Even restricted Shao Khan is faster than the speed of sound, something we just don't see demonstrated in Dynasty Warriors at all.

[ArlEammon]

Building pillars isn't all that impressive, just gives them tonnage in lifting strength.

Even restricted Shao Khan is faster than the speed of sound, something we just don't see demonstrated in Dynasty Warriors at all.

I kind already conceded, I'm just saying that these protagonists and Warriors Orochi characters are no pushovers.

[Fan]

I kind already conceded, I'm just saying that these protagonists and Warriors Orochi characters are no pushovers.

I would say without contention that they could probably work their way up to the heavy hitters like Shao Khan, Quan Chi, etc.

Definitely easy wins until then because MK is such a setting that has these hard breaks and jumps between it's tiers.

[Tanuki Tales]

I don't think that Captain America, or Spider Man, would stand a chance. Even Wolverine would find it quite difficult to compete with them. No, I'm not saying their Peak-Human.

Their abilities are all over the place though. Their lesser members can still probably wipe the floor with Spider Man and Captain America. Their heaviest hitters, like Susanoo could probably be an X-Man villain.

Lu Bu's not exactly the top of the heavy hitter's list in Warriors Orochi, I think WO developed something like Dragon Ball Z syndrome by the time of Warriors Orochi III. Lu Bu is, however, quite strong enough to be greater than almost any Mortal Kombatant. Although I suppose in this case he would need a Mortal Kombat Tournament in order to compete with Shao Kahn. Which would probably mean he wins.

I'm sorry, but you're going to seriously need to back any of that up.

Edit:

And I mean with more than crappy gameplay stuff. I've been looking up all I can on this verse and all I'm seeing mention is that some of them can bullet time and that Orochi supposedly has some kind of country to universal reality warping ability.

[Devonix]

I don't think that Captain America, or Spider Man, would stand a chance. Even Wolverine would find it quite difficult to compete with them. No, I'm not saying their Peak-Human.

Their abilities are all over the place though. Their lesser members can still probably wipe the floor with Spider Man and Captain America. Their heaviest hitters, like Susanoo could probably be an X-Man villain.

Lu Bu's not exactly the top of the heavy hitter's list in Warriors Orochi, I think WO developed something like Dragon Ball Z syndrome by the time of Warriors Orochi III. Lu Bu is, however, quite strong enough to be greater than almost any Mortal Kombatant. Although I suppose in this case he would need a Mortal Kombat Tournament in order to compete with Shao Kahn. Which would probably mean he wins.

You're showing a lack of knowledge of the character's abilities here. By listing Wolverine as comparable to Spiderman. Wolverine has never even come close to hitting in the same weight class as someone like Spiderman. Peter could solo the entire Dynasty Warriors series. Super Strength, Hightened reflexes combined with low level precog ability. Spidey can take down Lu Bu with a single punch if needed. But he wouldn't even need to close the distance to do so.

[MLai]

You're showing a lack of knowledge of the character's abilities here. By listing Wolverine as comparable to Spiderman. Wolverine has never even come close to hitting in the same weight class as someone like Spiderman. Peter could solo the entire Dynasty Warriors series. Super Strength, Hightened reflexes combined with low level precog ability. Spidey can take down Lu Bu with a single punch if needed. But he wouldn't even need to close the distance to do so.
What? "Wolverine cannot come close to Spiderman in a fight"? Something tells me this statement has already been disproved in canon Marvel Comics multiple times.

Spiderman is not Superman. He has super strength etc, but he's still a neighborhood-class superhero. I'm sure he can give Lu Bu a great fight, and then in the end win with smarts and ingenuity, and overall not too much worse for wear. But he can't curbstomp Lu Bu in 2 seconds like a DBZ character or something

[Tanuki Tales]

Spider-man pretty much outclasses Wolverine in almost all regards and has shown several times that he can put down Wolverine quickly if he feels like that.

[Starwulf]

Spider-man pretty much outclasses Wolverine in almost all regards and has shown several times that he can put down Wolverine quickly if he feels like that.

Someone needs to make a thread about this now, because I'll be honest, I've never particularly considered spiderman all that powerful, in my personal head canon I've always ranked Wolverine significantly higher then Spiderman in terms of power. I mean, Wolverine is virtually unkillable. Spiderman could die if he was shot in the head, wolverine? Nah, he's survived that more times then I can count.

[Tanuki Tales]

Someone needs to make a thread about this now, because I'll be honest, I've never particularly considered spiderman all that powerful, in my personal head canon I've always ranked Wolverine significantly higher then Spiderman in terms of power. I mean, Wolverine is virtually unkillable. Spiderman could die if he was shot in the head, wolverine? Nah, he's survived that more times then I can count.

Wolverine can still be knocked out and dealt with. Spider-man webbed him off the ground, with his knuckles stuck to the sides of his head, for several hours before.

There's also an alternate future where Spider-man went on the run after killing a former KGB agent instead of finding solace in Mary-Jane's arms. He ended up becoming a deadlier assassin and better martial artist than Wolverine and honed his Spider-sense to the point that he had full blown precognition.

[Devonix]

Spiderman and Wolverine have fought many many times. Even at the height of Wolverine's popularity he's never come close to taking out Spiderman

Wouldn't need a thread as there's no real debate. There has never been a comic or any evidence I can recall that gives wolverine the ability to take down Spiderman.

[Dragonus45]

The thing about Spiderman that people forget is that he is one of the heaviest hitters in Marvel, but the nature of his story as a person trying to balance life as a local hero with life as Peter Parker means he never quite has the space to get involved in the really really big stuff.

[Traab]

He can lift several tons, is faster than humanly possible, though im not sure by how much, can tell when an attack is coming and dodge it, and can immobilize from range. Im not saying wolverine CANT win, im just saying in an objective fight, he loses far more often. He only needs one good hit after all, and normally thats enough to make him a true threat, but against someone who can pretty much always tell when an attack is coming, and is faster than him, it becomes way less likely.

[Tanuki Tales]

To be fair though, Peter would have to repeatedly go for head shots (and I mean repeatedly) or immobilize Logan with webbing or other methods. The ol' canuckle head can eat Class 100 blows like candy and keep on trucking.

[Traab]

Out of curiosity, what stops peter from grabbing wolverines wrists when he goes for random slash attempt #45346098, webbing them together along with his arms behind his back with his strength and speed, then webbing the rest of him? His claws cant reach the webbing, he doesnt have sufficient strength to snap the strands, (if he does pete can always add more) and hang him by his ankles from a nearby light post?

[Tanuki Tales]

Out of curiosity, what stops peter from grabbing wolverines wrists when he goes for random slash attempt #45346098, webbing them together along with his arms behind his back with his strength and speed, then webbing the rest of him? His claws cant reach the webbing, he doesnt have sufficient strength to snap the strands, (if he does pete can always add more) and hang him by his ankles from a nearby light post?

That's what I meant by "or immobilize Logan with webbing or other methods". :smalltongue:

We're starting to get off-topic though.

[MLai]

The thing about Spiderman that people forget is that he is one of the heaviest hitters in Marvel...
WUT. No.
Spiderman is not "one of the heaviest hitters in Marvel" except if you restrict yourself to street level.
His most enduring opponents include normal to mildly souped-up humans who attack him with conventional weapons with fancier appearance. A normal bullet can put Spiderman down (if it hits him).

[Tanuki Tales]

I think he meant more than just strength-wise. Peter doesn't do it much, but he's scary good at prep.

[The Glyphstone]

Doesn't Spidey have an official lift capacity of 10 tons or something?

[Tanuki Tales]

Doesn't Spidey have an official lift capacity of 10 tons or something?

He bounces somewhere between 10 and 30, depending on the writer.

[Devonix]

That's what I meant by "or immobilize Logan with webbing or other methods". :smalltongue:

We're starting to get off-topic though.

This is actually Peter's go to strategy to take down Wolverine in their usual fights.

[Dark Tira]

I think he meant more than just strength-wise. Peter doesn't do it much, but he's scary good at prep.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to forget that Peter is actually considered to be one of the smartest humans in the normal Marvel Universe. That being said, if you take a look at various versions of Spider-man I'm pretty sure Wolverine would have a good match up against one of them. Toby MacGuire Spidey for one is pretty dumb and seems to be considerably weaker than the comic version.

[MLai]

No prep discussion. That's too big a variable. All Spidey gets is his web shooters.
Yes Spidey can lift 10 tons. That's actually the raw strength range of a lot of earthbound Marvel characters; it's not special.

The powerlifting Guinness World Record according to Wiki is ~263kg, which is 0.29 (short) ton. So Spidey has super strength, but not earth-shatteringly-super strength.
And yes I'm going to say it's a short ton, not a metric ton, considering Marvel is a USA company and the short ton is the USA meaning of the ton.

[Devonix]

No prep discussion. That's too big a variable. All Spidey gets is his web shooters.
Yes Spidey can lift 10 tons. That's actually the raw strength range of a lot of earthbound Marvel characters; it's not special.

The powerlifting Guinness World Record according to Wiki is ~263kg, which is 0.29 (short) ton. So Spidey has super strength, but not earth-shatteringly-super strength.
And yes I'm going to say it's a short ton, not a metric ton, considering Marvel is a USA company and the short ton is the USA meaning of the ton.

Wolverine can not and never has been able to escape Spiderman's webbing. Spidey is faster and strong enough to knock him out fast. This stuff isn't speculation it's what he has done in nearly every one of their many encounters.