OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

News post about the end-of-book hiatus is forthcoming, too.

[ThePhantasm]

End of the book! Thanks Giant, its been a fun ride. I think this has been my favorite book so far.

[Happy Gravity]

Dun dun dun DUUUUUN!

Nice end to the book. Looking forward to more. Can't wait! :P

[Delusion]

Well... Totally did not see that one coming....:smalleek:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well. Guess that answers that about Durkon. Durkula. Whichever. :smalleek:

Though come on, don't you realize that now Durkon's going to break out at the most critical and opportune time? You just doomed yourself, stupid! Still, damn, I saw it coming by the end of the first page, but not before then! Especially not the exact nature of Hel.

It's been a fantastic ride--see you in a month and a half!

[Caivs]

Thanks Giant, looks like it'll be a well-deserved rest.

And I'm sure it'll be worth the wait for us :D

[Pokonic]

Well, two thousand years of dwarven civilization is a good run, right?

[Nilehus]

Durkon...

Gods, that's awful.

Cannot wait to see where it goes.

[SympathyBot]

Holy cow.
Cant wait.

[Swiftbow]

Wow, was looking at the forum for last episode, then I hit back to the comic to check it, and bam, a new one! Woo.

Definitely did not expect this turn with Durkon... poor guy's like a Goa'uld from Stargate or a demon on Supernatural.

Important plot point, though! Durkon IS still in there.

[ThePhantasm]

By the way, I totally called that Durkula wasn't the real Durkon, that he was a totally different person... a villain. So yeah, vindicated again.

Stake him!

[Forrestfire]

So... wow. That's... wow. :smalleek:

That answers a lot of questions.

[Burnerpower]

Holy Crap. Well that ends a lot of forum debates. Hrmm I wonder when he screwed up the accent. Archive binge away!

[Deuce]

Awwwww Hel . . .

Loved the art at the end there.

[DaggerPen]

Crap.

I was sure that all the "That's not really Durkon" calls were dead wrong

Ah well. I can admit when I've made a bad prediction.

[3SecondCultist]

Wow, what a great way to end the book.

*tips hat*

I can honestly say that this is the most engaging and well-thought out story that I have read in a long time.

[ArlEammon]

Maybe some how Durkon can come back.

[Everyl]

Alright, I'll admit it: I was wrong about Durkula.

[RustyVenture]

So good. So good! I'm going to miss OOTS while it's away but this was really a great book. I feel the whole strip is just hitting on all cylinders; there's a lot of good loose ends out there, some great plot twists, and the art has just been top notch recently with lots of different settings and situations to showcase the artist's talent.

Keep it up Giant, and hopefully you take a little time off during this hiatus!

[Kolhammer]

Guess that's another faction for the list.

[Plerumque]

Well, that was unexpected.

[Keltest]

Well, im both relieved that Durkula is in fact a separate entity with malevolent intentions (so he can be killed without feeling guilty) and saddened that Durkon is basically imprisoned.

[TaiLiu]

My, my. I cannot say I expected this.

[godshawk]

So does this mean that Belkar finally gets to take not-Durkon on a trip to Stabbytown?

[Shale]

Yeeeeeeeeeep.


Although I definitely didn't expect it to be that stark a line between Durkon and Durkula.

[Nephrahim]

Well, that answers that.

[Ivrytwr]

... Awesome.
... Just awesome.

Thanks Giant.
Enjoy your break.

[manuelj]

OMG Durkon! I hope he can escape in the best possible time :)

This book has been amazing, Giant thanks a lot for sharing it with us.

[Eldest]

Welp, another party introduces itself. (Faction, whatever.) And in an interesting manner.

Oh, right, first reaction:

:eek:

[Lord Raziere]

SEE?

SEE?

NEVER TRUST A VAMPIRE.

EVER.

THEY SHOULD ALL BE STAKED.

Awesome, I can't wait to see how this will all turn out... :smallcool:

[Cuthalion]

Well, that's a question answered. :smalleek:

[TRH]

Wonderful, I was hoping for just such a twist. I can't wait for this brilliance to continue. :smallbiggrin:

[Plerumque]

Thank you so much for creating this wonderful story, Giant. It's been a wild ride.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well DAMN. That was a pretty epic cliffhanger, Giant!

[dpm]

Nice to see Garm, even if he is unusually mellow.

[DaggerPen]

All right, and that's me officially on board the "Stake Durkon" boat.

(Though I'd still like to point out that it was totally right for the Order to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that he's proven to in fact be an unholy abomination imprisoning Durkon's soul doesn't mean that the Order knows that. Still, the sooner staked the better.)

And seriously, because I didn't say it earlier - thank you, Giant. This has been an incredible ride of a book, and this rest is well deserved. I can't wait for more.

[Clarkson]

Flurrg... When did he screw up on the accent?

[deuxhero]

Well... didn't expect that.

[Agnostik]

You know, I had a half-baked theory that Durkon (or his shell, as the case may be) would become the first ever Dwarven priest of Hel.

I never voiced my half-baked theory, just to give all the other half-baked theories more room (Gods know they need it), so I can't prove it. But it's true, I kind of called it. Believe me.

[TheFool]

That is one large puppy.

[Canisius]

Aw Crikey, Rich. That's pretty dang harsh.

[Silva Stormrage]

I honestly did not expect that… Huh…. surprising

[Keltest]

Flurrg... When did he screw up on the accent?

arguably when he shouted "GIVE ME MY STAFF". although having a rather decent overly-exaggerated Scottish accent I can say that shouting MY sounds more or less American, and MAH just looks weird.

[CrispyCriminal]

And here I thought we were going for the warped version of himself. Ah well, that's what denouncements are there for; clearing the air and setting us up for the next book.

[DaggerPen]

Flurrg... When did he screw up on the accent?

GIVE ME MY STAFF (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0931.html) is one. Can't remember any others - Durkon's accent is always kind of inconsistent.

[Everyl]

Flurrg... When did he screw up on the accent?

"GIVE ME MY STAFF (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0931.html)!" was the most oft-cited example in the forum debates on the subject.

[RedSand]

*Applause for ungodly hard-to-wait-for-conclusion twist ending
I wonder how Durkon'll feel about all this once he's been resurrected. He's always had a lot of faith in his companions, and having them treat something that horrible-basically enslavement, but worse-happening to him as a minor change in mood aught to make for some decent drama.

[AdmiralCheez]

Wow, what a cliffhanger. At least we know that Durkon is still there and hasn't been permanently changed to evil. So, there's still hope for him.

[The Kind Knido]

So Trigak or Malack?

[Jordan Cat]

Yes! This is a brilliant ending! Yes! :)

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[abcd_z]

What bothers me is that he got the accent right from the very moment he was freed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0907.html). That's a ludicrously quick adaptation, although I figure Rich probably did it that way to keep the accurate predictions to a minimum.

[ThePhantasm]

I hope we get some real-Durkon dialogue now that we know he's in there... even though no one can hear him, I'd like to see his reactions to what Durkula does.

Can't wait on the new plot arc. This one has been spectacular.

[Rakoa]

So Trigak or Malack?

I thought Malack at first. But Hel mentioned that he was sired by "Nergal's Snake" (referring to Malack being his sire), so that wouldn't make sense. She did say this his spirit was birthed in her dark halls, though, which would indicate that this is an entirely new character, one we've never seen before.

Or Trigak was born in Hel's halls.

[Domino Quartz]

So - does this mean that Nale sort-of did the barbarian Lizardfolk shaman a favour when he killed Malack?

[Fly_or_Die]

Does this mean Durkon really will return to his dwarvern homelands and bring ruin? (Posthumously, I might add?)

[PirateMonk]

Wait, Durkula really does worship Hel? So the crazy speculators were right? Again?

[Dudu]

I actually believed Durkon had some control over his corpse.

Guess I was wrong. Which is good. It turns his death back damn dramatic again instead of just a template upgrade.

[Shale]

All right, and that's me officially on board the "Stake Durkon" boat.

(Though I'd still like to point out that it was totally right for the Order to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that he's proven to in fact be an unholy abomination imprisoning Durkon's soul doesn't mean that the Order knows that. Still, the sooner staked the better.)

If that's how OOTS vampires work, though, anybody with a good Knowledge: Religion score should have known that wasn't Durkon. Of course, nobody on the Order has such a score, so.

[Blisstake]

Oh Hel...

Not good for the Order.

[MelTorefas]

Sweet mother of pearl. :smalleek: I did NOT see that coming. Durkon! :smallfrown:

[HalfTangible]

....................

Whoa :smalleek: I...

Okay, that was friggen perfect.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

...

...I feel like it would be a pain to have to reach down that far for her chalice all the time. Maybe she should make them carve her an end table or something.

[Ghost Nappa]

By the way, I totally called that Durkula wasn't the real Durkon, that he was a totally different person... a villain. So yeah, vindicated again.

Stake him!

Well that kills like a bajillion arguments at the same time.

And OH MY GOD that is some really fancy artwork.

Not gonna lie, I lost all of **** when I saw the final panels. It was like an evilgasm, but well, less evil.

[Shale]

What bothers me is that he got the accent right from the very moment he was freed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0907.html). That's a ludicrously quick adaptation, although I figure Rich probably did it that way to keep the accurate predictions to a minimum.

He may have been studying up from the moment he was sired, but as unable to act during the thralldom as Durkon is now.

[Porthos]

*reads comic*

This is awesome!!!

*sees Durkon down below*

*gets sinking feeling*

*sees what's happening*

STAKE THE BLANKTY BLANK BLANK!! :smallfurious: :smallfurious: :smallfurious:

NOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!! :smallfurious:

===

OK, I'm better.

PS: Can Haz Stake Now, plz?

[ThePhantasm]

I'm not sure they were "giving him the benefit of the doubt" so much as having difficulty coming to terms with the notion that the real Durkon might be gone.

[Nilehus]

What bothers me is that he got the accent right from the very moment he was freed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0907.html). That's a ludicrously quick adaptation, although I figure Rich probably did it that way to keep the accurate predictions to a minimum.

He did just stand there for a bit. That's probably when the demon(?) entered and subjugated him.

Durkon has always been one of my favorites, so this... :smallfrown: This hurt to see.

[Scifne]

Poor Durkon!!!!!! It would be cool if he could try to make will saves.

[JennTora]

hm... So I was wrong.

Can't say it's my favorite plot twist...


but I'm nonetheless eager to see how it turns.

[Rakoa]

If that's how OOTS vampires work, though, anybody with a good Knowledge: Religion score should have known that wasn't Durkon. Of course, nobody on the Order has such a score, so.

It looks to me like this was a special scenario, mind you. Given Hel's comments on the matter and the fact that...well, that Hel is even here, directly (sort of)!

[The Kind Knido]

I thought Malack at first. But Hel mentioned that he was sired by "Nergal's Snake" (referring to Malack being his sire), so that wouldn't make sense. She did say this his spirit was birthed in her dark halls, though, which would indicate that this is an entirely new character, one we've never seen before.

Or Trigak was born in Hel's halls.

I really hope this means the crazy Trigak theory was correct, or at least for the most part.

As long as it's been Trigak this whole time. There really has been some hints for this.

[TRH]

Wait, Durkula really does worship Hel? So the crazy speculators were right? Again?

We're always right. Don't ever question us, you presumptuous fool. :smallwink:

[Jordan Cat]

This is going to be a very interesting turn of events.

I cant wait to see how this turns out :smallsmile:

[zzyss]

Yikes. To me this looks like it's setting up an epic battle of the Gods. Thor and... Hel? (And probably the others, without going into stuff from the book exclusives)

[fractal]

So Malak really was destroying his friend, whatever he thought. Now that we see Durkula's real personality, it seems pretty unlikely that he would have chosen to remain with Malak after being released from thralldom.

And also, Durkula's claim that he is no more evil than (current) Belkar is revealed as a lie - even pre-Shojo Belkar never planned to ruin the world. For that matter, even Xykon doesn't plan it, although he's not trying too hard to avoid the risk.

[David Argall]

Actually, this gives us more reason not to stake the vampire. That should kill both. The Vampire must be raised first, which will not be easy with those vampire powers getting in the way.

[Nilehus]

Next prediction: Hel, Durkon, and Trigak are all the same person...

Redcloak's niece.

[ShadowFireLance]

So.
The Dwarf is actually Trigak . This makes all sense now.

[johnbragg]

I predicted Durkon as High Priest of Hel, but not like this. I was thinking more like RIPD or Constantine or Spawn, occassionally emerging from the outer planes to hunt down powerful undead. Not like this at all.

And yes, ad another faction to the list--what does Hel care about the Gates or the Snarl?

[Gwynfrid]

Several have said that this already, but it's worth repeating: This was a magnificent book - in art, in story, in characterization, and in comedy.

Come to think of it, it was maybe just a little less strong on comedy than earlier books. But then, the material was inherently darker so that's understandable. Even then, there were some fantastic laughs.

Kudos all around, for a job well done.

I'm not wishing you a well-deserved rest, even though it's deserved indeed, because I suspect preparing for print is just as hard work, and likely more tedious.

[Keltest]

I really hope this means the crazy Trigak theory was correct, or at least for the most part.

As long as it's been Trigak this whole time. There really has been some hints for this.

Obviously Trigak wasn't actually a Chimera, but instead a minion of Hel. He's been waiting for Durkon to die this whole time so he could take over.

[Porthos]

OK, calmed down a bit.

...

Only a bit. :smalltongue:

Looks like Rich is going for the Libris Mortis interpetation of "maglin spirit" inhabiting the body.

Or Buffy. Which ever works.

PS: WHERE'S MY STAKE!!!!! :smallfurious:

:smalltongue:

[Jordan Cat]

I'm drawing a blank here, who is Trigak again?

[Amarsir]

So Durkula is a totally different person. Hmmm.

I'm kind of disappointed just because I love seeing The Giant's takes on alignments and personality. And I think a Good person forced to become Evil is a fascinating development. An evil pretender who knows full-well what he's doing is also a compelling story, just not as unique.

Anyway, a dramatic end to the chapter and nice hook for the next.

[Angel Bob]

I knew it!

Well, some of it, at least.

Okay, only a small fraction of it: that Count Thundershield would come to serve as High Priest of Hel. Everything else caught me entirely off-guard. :smalltongue:

I will say, I'm very glad to see the nature of vampires in this world made clear. Although this does raise questions about Malack's existence as a vampire. Huh...

[Amarsir]

I'm drawing a blank here, who is Trigak again?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html

[Dwy]

This is epic.

Couldn't have been happier with this one.

I'm really looking forwards to the next time Belkar and Scruffy have some alone time though.

[Iago]

On people who were good who get Vamp'd, as it was said before:

"You have to remember that when you see him, you're not looking at your friend. You're looking at the thing that killed him." — Giles, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[aabicus]

I'm probably just slow but....is that Malack? She keeps calling him a serpent. Did he do something to hide inside Durkon before he died?

[Domino Quartz]

I'm drawing a blank here, who is Trigak again?

He was a chimera who appeared waaaaaay back in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools (within the first 100 strips). He was killed by Belkar, but there's a joke theory currently going that Durkon is actually a polymorphed Trigak, based solely on the idea that Trigak was supposed to be a recurring villain.
EDIT: Ninjas. Ninjas, everywhere.

[The Kind Knido]

Obviously Trigak wasn't actually a Chimera, but instead a minion of Hel. He's been waiting for Durkon to die this whole time so he could take over.

Well, if Sabine is any indication of how outsiders work, then yes. Trigak would have just returned to Hel and waited.

It makes perfect sense.

[Jordan Cat]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html

Wow, been a while since I've seen that. I need to reread the comic again sometime.

So, where does the theory of Durkula being Trigak come from?

[Max™]

Ahem...

OH SNAP!

That is all.

[DaggerPen]

Also, I'm loving the shadow effects on that final page. Reminds me of the Julio comic in SSaDT, actually.

[Ridureyu]

WOAH!


It looks like some folks were right about Durkon!

[Domino Quartz]

Wow, been a while since I've seen that. I need to reread the comic again sometime.

So, where does the theory of Durkula being Trigak come from?

It's not a serious theory, it's a joke theory made in parody of some of the more ridiculous (serious) wild theories that come up from time to time. It's jokingly based on the idea that Trigak was supposed to be a recurring villain.

[Jordan Cat]

It's not a serious theory, it's a joke theory made in parody of some of the more ridiculous (serious) wild theories that come up from time to time.

Ah okay. Kinda hard to tell sometimes with this forum :smallbiggrin:

[Ridureyu]

Except the wild theory it was parodying (that an evil spirit has taken Durkon's place) turned out to be true!

[Griffincat]

Thank you, Giant, and I hope you enjoy your vacation.

[Porthos]

If that's how OOTS vampires work, though, anybody with a good Knowledge: Religion score should have known that wasn't Durkon. Of course, nobody on the Order has such a score, so.

Including Durkon, if one recalls. :smallwink:

There is a small piece of good news about all of this. I had thought that Durkon might go throughout all of the comic like this, until the end.

But now? Now Durkula, and yes I feel NO compunction at using that term anymore :smalltongue:, has to die by the end of the comic. Whether Durkon comes back, or goes to his heavenly reward is up to debate.

I strongly suspect the Durkula/Durkon subplot will be one of the focuses, if not THE focus of the next book. Hopefully Durkon will be cured by then.

[Agnostik]

I'm probably just slow but....is that Malack? She keeps calling him a serpent. Did he do something to hide inside Durkon before he died?
She never called him a serpent once. She called him a servant, and once referred to Malack as "Nergal's snake".

[DaggerPen]

I feel really bad for all the casual forumites trying frantically to figure out where Hel said that Durkula was in fact Trigak.

Guys. Durkula is neither Trigak the Chimera nor Malack the Snake-lizard person. He seems to be a new entity altogether that Hel got to create due to her having dominion over dwarves.

[veti]

He did just stand there for a bit. That's probably when the demon(?) entered and subjugated him.

Durkon has always been one of my favorites, so this... :smallfrown: This hurt to see.

Presumably, Hel's spirit (whatever it is) was infused into the body when Malack vamped him.

That'd be why Malack was so looking forward to having Durkon as a "friend" to talk to. Sharing experiences with a dark spirit born of another pantheon entirely? Fascinating.

Wondering, though - since Hel is officially a dwarven god, why does her spirit have to fake a 'dwarven' accent? Shouldn't it have one naturally?

[FrigginAwesome]

So. Durkula will meet Hilgya in the Dwarven lands, and she'll be the one to figure out he's not the real Durkon.

[Ghost Nappa]

So I get the distinct impression that this all but confirms Hel & Count Durkula, High Priest of Hel as a side.

Also, anyone who objects to the usage of "Durkula" is going to be fighting an uphill battle.

[Canisius]

Belkar was right, Roy was wrong.

You stake the vampire. Roy still held out hope for Durkon, but Durkon is gone. Well, he's trapped in some other plane while vampire Durkon uses his body. But Belkar was right. Gang-rush and stake him.

This is such a common narrative tool: the crazy chaotic murderer is the Cassandra. He knows the danger, but because he's a crazy chaotic murderer, nobody listens to him.

Durkon's gonna wreak havoc in the dwarven homeland. I hope that Belkar's exit involves destroying the vampire.

[MSTang]

Oh my God.

....

....

[Dwy]

I feel really bad for all the casual forumites trying frantically to figure out where Hel said that Durkula was in fact Trigak.

Guys. Durkula is neither Trigak the Chimera nor Malack the Snake-lizard person. He seems to be a new entity altogether that Hel got to create due to her having dominion over dwarves.
Durkon isn't Trigak anymore, no, he's vampirized 2/3 of Trigak.

Belkar however, is still Trigak.

[Valanarch]

That can't be good. Also, really people. You thought that Durkula was actually Durkon and hadn't changed at all?

[Agnostik]

Wondering, though - since Hel is officially a dwarven god, why does her spirit have to fake a 'dwarven' accent? Shouldn't it have one naturally?
You could argue that neither Hel herself nor other Northern gods are dwarves themselves, so if the THING inside Durkon's body is a spirit made by Hel, it's not necessarily Dwarven.

[Ninja Dragon]

That was... amazing.

First time I've seen a book end right when it was up. And I didn't expect it to be this awesome.

Thank you Giant, this webcomic is just awesome. It's been a fun ride since I've began to read it was around the beginning of book 5, and I hope the awesomeness keeps pilling up.

[Haluesen]

Well...that happened. :smalleek: I admit to not having made any judgements about Durkon/Durkula/whatever since this all started to avoid being inevitably wrong, but in all my wildest dreams I could not imagine that last panel. Oh my gosh that hurts to see, and I'm not even a real diehard Durkon fan.

Well, this has been quite a ride. Thank you for all of this Giant, again you are a genius. :smallbiggrin: Have a good hiatus, and try to get at least some time off in all that. :smallwink:

[skim172]

As I said before - without knowing the exact mechanics of vampirism within each universe, it can't really be said whether or not the original pre-vampiric self remains or retains the same frame of mind. So it was unreasonable to say whether "Darkon" was definitively still "Durkon" (Durkula sounds dumb :smalltongue:). And it would be equally unreasonable to gloat in hindsight now the truth has been revealed.

That said: YEESSSSSS I WAS RIGHT YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH :smallcool:



DARKON LIVES!!!!

[Spoomeister]

BOOOOOOO.

Really not a fan of the last half of this strip. All kinds of character conflict and character growth opportunities wasted, now that this is "not really Durkon".

I'm glad Rich is going on a well-deserved hiatus for a few weeks, as I may need that kind of break too.

Let me clarify though: I in no way think Rich is "doing it wrong", I fully recognize and respect that it's his story to tell as he wishes, etc. It's unfortunate that I even have to say that, but I am anyway. In case it isn't obvious, I'm a huge fan of the story and wouldn't have such a visceral reaction to this character choice if I weren't. I was just looking forward to seeing Durkon react and grow as a character and am sorry we won't be seeing that. I'm not anticipating that Durkula as a plotline will take its place but well, let's see how the next book goes.

And that's not even getting into some headscratching over where the Snarl plotline is going. I'm alright with some of the commentary and metacommentary in the comic about Xykon as villain... I know that ecen in games I'm playing right now, there is a certain amount of "you know, by all rights wr shouldn't be adventuring together anymore due to character clashes or plot reasons, but these characters and these players arw so much fun we can handwave it". The OOTS currently being some of the highest level adventurers they know of that could so something about Xykon is enough motivation I suppose, even if the Gate race / Snarl plotline is shifting a bit.

Lastly I'm really impressed with Rich's openness about his hiatus, and about the priorities he's set for that time. He is well within his rights to simply say "back 3/31" and that's that. That he shared these plans with us, and that he has great work and personal priorities, really makes megive the benefit of the doubt on story that much more. He is a thoughtful artist and, from what I've seen online, a stand-up fellow.

Hope all goes well the next few weeks. See you next book, Rich.

[Ted The Bug]

WELL

Good job on one-upping your end of book cliffhangers. Unfortunately for your audience.

*waits til March 31st on the edge of his seat*

[Nilehus]

Presumably, Hel's spirit (whatever it is) was infused into the body when Malack vamped him.

That'd be why Malack was so looking forward to having Durkon as a "friend" to talk to. Sharing experiences with a dark spirit born of another pantheon entirely? Fascinating.

Wondering, though - since Hel is officially a dwarven god, why does her spirit have to fake a 'dwarven' accent? Shouldn't it have one naturally?

We don't know what kind of spirit it is. Could be a dwarf that lived in human lands long enough to lose its accent, could be an entirely new creation.

Looking back at the strip, I get the feeling that this was a unique case. Durkon's soul is still there, but in this case, the god in charge of it pushed another one on top of it.

Cannot wait to find out.

[Oko and Qailee]

Theres just so many people involve in this with their own agenda.

I guess loosing the Linear Guild and Introducing Hel makes this book break even though.

[Ormur]

My first thought was: Whoa that's quite a development. :smalleek:

My second thought was: Aw, Fenrisúlfr is so cute sleeping. :smalltongue:

Edit: Well, or Garm probably.

[DaOldeWolf]

Oh, my...

Who would have though? They finally revealed that Malack is a snake afterall he is the high priest of Hel. So that theory got true. Kudos to all the people who guessed correctly.

Quite the cliffhanger. :smallbiggrin:

[Grey Watcher]

So, Durkon and Durkula are distinct entities after all. Definitely like that he serves Hel. Glad she's getting more screentime than as the silly one-panel joke (which, in retrospect, was a brilliant way to introduce her character such that we just accepted her as part of the strip's universe).

Also, did Durkula exist before the Malack fight? Since the Durkon we all know and love is in there, helpless but apparently uncorrupted, I find myself wondering about the metaphysics involved. Was Durkula some entity of Hel that was granted access to the world when a new Dwarven vampire came into existence? (The "birthed in my hall" line would seem to support this.) Is he something that formed around Durkon as part of the vampirization process? (Which might make Hel's language here a bit more figurative.)

Also, this recolors my view on Malack's line about "Raising me is just a complicated way of destroying the person I am now." Was the living Lizardfolk's mind/spirit still... in existence? Or had 200 years of servitude finally worn it away until only the vampire remained? Did he finally get to go to the afterlife he deserved?

Hoping very much we get some more information on these questions in the next arc.

Also, very interested to see what angle Hel's going to play in the whole Gate nonsense. She seems to have her own ideas about how that should play out.

[Porthos]

BOOOOOOO.

Really not a fan of the last half of this strip. All kinds of character conflict and character growth opportunities wasted, now that this is "not really Durkon".

The character growth could come about as Durkon comes to grips with what 'he' did as Durkula, you know.

Lots and lots of room for drama and hijinks there.

Or, indeed, Durkon trying to 'break free'.

This is just the beginning. Best not to judge too harshly until we see where it goes.

[Gift Jeraff]

*sees new strip title* Oh, we're going to see more of the inside of the Rift, I guess?
*sees name of news update before clicking on the new strip* Ohhhh!
*reads new strip* Oh. Oh damn.

Told you this was going to come back to bite Roy. :smallyuk:

[Everyl]

Actually, this gives us more reason not to stake the vampire. That should kill both. The Vampire must be raised first, which will not be easy with those vampire powers getting in the way.

Staking the vampire is a prerequisite to raising Durkon. Resurrection doesn't work on undead; the undead must be destroyed first. Staking is the only standard way to destroy a vampire that doesn't also destroy the remains. Resurrection without remains means True Resurrection, which ups the level of the friendly cleric they need to find significantly.

...

Incidental, wild speculation: Maybe Hilgya will be the one to raise real-Durkon?

[Angel Bob]

Really not a fan of the last half of this strip. All kinds of character conflict and character growth opportunities wasted, now that this is "not really Durkon".

...

Let me clarify though: I in no way think Rich is "doing it wrong", I fully recognize and respect that it's his story to tell as he wishes, etc. It's unfortunate that I even have to say that, but I am anyway. In case it isn't obvious, I'm a huge fan of the story and wouldn't have such a visceral reaction to this character choice if I weren't. I was just looking forward to seeing Durkon react and grow as a character and am sorry we won't be seeing that. I'm not anticipating that Durkula as a plotline will take its place but well, let's see how the next book goes.

Ah, yes. Thank you for giving a voice to the part of me that didn't like this latest revelation. I was so dearly looking forward to seeing "Durkon, but evil", and instead we have "evil, but not Durkon". Hmph. Though I suppose there's still a chance of interesting character development for Durkon, but it'll probably take the form of angst and frustration.


That can't be good. Also, really people. You thought that Durkula was actually Durkon and hadn't changed at all?

I don't think anybody seriously thought that "Durkula was actually Durkon and hadn't changed at all". I, for one, thought that "Durkula" was actually Durkon, but had changed significantly. Please try to understand dissenters before ridiculing them. :smallwink:

[Porthos]

So, Durkon and Durkula are distinct entities after all. Definitely like that he serves Hel. Glad she's getting more screentime than as the silly one-panel joke (which, in retrospect, was a brilliant way to introduce her character such that we just accepted her as part of the strip's universe).

Also, did Durkula exist before the Malack fight? Since the Durkon we all know and love is in there, helpless but apparently uncorrupted, I find myself wondering about the metaphysics involved. Was Durkula some entity of Hel that was granted access to the world when a new Dwarven vampire came into existence? (The "birthed in my hall" line would seem to support this.) Is he something that formed around Durkon as part of the vampirization process? (Which might make Hel's language here a bit more figurative.)

IIRC what hamishspence has had to say about this, Libris Mortis has a 'malign spirit' move in when someone is vamped. Seems close enough to what happened here.

Or Rich saw too many Buffy episodes back in the day. Take your pick. :smalltongue:

[Aron Times]

My theory on OotS vampires: Western vampires and Northern vampires work differently. Malack, a western vampire, seemed to be under the impression that Durkon would be back to his old self once freed. If Malack were possessed by a foreign spirit and not actually himself, he would know from experience that Durkon wouldn't be the same person.

Therefore, Western vampires, who are under Nergal's portfolio, are the same person as their living selves. Northern/Dwarven vampires, who are under Hel's portfolio, are like Buffy vampires, possessed by an evil spirit.

[Haar]

And once again, my powers of prediction have ultimately proven completely useless.

Despite reassurances to the contrary earlier on, it seems the overseer of death, in this case, really is evil. I wonder if Malack's train of thought on the subject was widely shared, or if he was deluding himself to thinking it wasn't "evil".

[Voidhawk]

Belkar was right, Roy was wrong.

You stake the vampire. Roy still held out hope for Durkon, but Durkon is gone. Well, he's trapped in some other plane while vampire Durkon uses his body. But Belkar was right. Gang-rush and stake him.

This is such a common narrative tool: the crazy chaotic murderer is the Cassandra. He knows the danger, but because he's a crazy chaotic murderer, nobody listens to him.

Durkon's gonna wreak havoc in the dwarven homeland. I hope that Belkar's exit involves destroying the vampire.

Durkon died to save Belkar. Belkar dies to save and/or kill Durkon. Calling it now.

[Commander672]

Don't get too close,
it's dark inside.
It's where my Durkon hides!
It's where my Durkon hides!

Sorry, couldn't resist. :smalltongue:

[ts20fan]

:smalleek: Wow. That was... unexpected to say the least.

[Porthos]

My theory on OotS vampires: Western vampires and Northern vampires work differently. Malack, a western vampire, seemed to be under the impression that Durkon would be back to his old self once freed. If Malack were possessed by a foreign spirit and not actually himself, he would know from experience that Durkon wouldn't be the same person.

Therefore, Western vampires, who are under Nergal's portfolio, are the same person as their living selves. Northern/Dwarven vampires, who are under Hel's portfolio, are like Buffy vampires, possessed by an evil spirit.

Alternatively, the 'confusion' could be a spirit getting used to the mortal world. She might not be a spirit, but even Celia mentioned the problems getting used to the Prime.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

On people who were good who get Vamp'd, as it was said before:

"You have to remember that when you see him, you're not looking at your friend. You're looking at the thing that killed him." — Giles, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Durkulus: "Okay, Roy, let's deal with this. Durkon was an excruciating loser who couldn't even say 'the' correctly. Look at me, I'm a new man!"

[MrSpkr]

All I can think to say is - -

44 DAYS UNTIL THE NEXT OOTS???!?!?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Keltest]

And once again, my powers of prediction have ultimately proven completely useless.

Despite reassurances to the contrary earlier on, it seems the overseer of death, in this case, really is evil. I wonder if Malack's train of thought on the subject was widely shared, or if he was deluding himself to thinking it wasn't "evil".

Hel's domain is specific enough (Dwarves who died of non-liver diseases that they didn't acquire as a consequence of heroics) that calling her a "goddess of death" isn't especially accurate. Nergal appears to be a much more "generic" god of death, like Kelemvor from forgotten realms. Judge, not jury.

[JennTora]

That can't be good. Also, really people. You thought that Durkula was actually Durkon and hadn't changed at all?

I didn't expect that he was going to be some silly buffy style vampire is all. Not that I'm expecting it to be all lame and boring like buffy vampires this is ORder of the Stick and not Buffy, after all.

The thought that kept running through my head was that Durkon turned evil because he thought vampires were automatically evil. It was either that or this honestly, since I can't really stand the thought of "Vampires just become evil for no reason."

and I thought the first because I thought this was supposed to be character development for Durkon, but I guess that's going to come later.

This also raises the question of why Malack even considered there to be a true connection between himself and that "ignorant barbarian shaman" at all, since he's not even the same soul if this applies to all vampires. The way he spoke sounded as if he were a 90 year old describing himself at five years old. This proves Durkula isn't Durkon, but it raises a lot more questions than it answered.

[Mauve Shirt]

I had hoped. But now I suspect Belkar's the dwarven homeland's only hope. :smalleek:

[kenlund]

This answers the question I had about where Durkula was getting his spells. I figured Thor wouldn't be providing the spells any longer .... to an undead vampire anyways. But, I wanted Durkula to be Durkon so badly. But I guess the speech Redcloak gave Tsukiko in #830 said it all. The undead aren't people anymore....bits of skin and bone and dark energy.

[Deremir]

so... im assuming that the theory that durkon is going to get raised from vampire form and then go to the dwarf homelands to live happily ever after has already been said?

also while im here, has oots been updated to pathfinder? cuz i dont remember cantrips in d&d:smallconfused:

[Passive Pete]

DAMN. First of all, I never expected any of the other Northern Gods to get involved. . .

THANK YOU for the twist, O Might Giant! I was waiting and waiting for something just like this! :smallsmile: I'm gonna be shaking for the next month and a half, worrying about Durkon. I feel so bad for him! :smallfrown:

[Porthos]

*looks over at Twitter (https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/status/435958402091466752)*

Damn, it's blowing up over there right now. I've never seen this amount of reponses nor so quickly on one of his tweets.

They're almost as GAHGAHAGHGAH as we are. :smalltongue:

Well done Rich. You've certainly got us talking. :smalltongue:

[ellindsey]

Nice minor detail: Julio flying off into the sunset on a flying carpet in the distance on the first panel.

[Keltest]

so... im assuming that the theory that durkon is going to get raised from vampire form and then go to the dwarf homelands to live happily ever after has already been said?

also while im here, has oots been updated to pathfinder? cuz i dont remember cantrips in d&d:smallconfused:

cantrips have existed since at least "Unearthed Arcana" for AD&D 1.0. I don't know if they have been in every version since, but they have definitely been a thing for a long while.

[Tathum]

And only a beautiful priestess of Loki bearing their infant child can give Durkon the inner will to break free.

[Porthos]

also while im here, has oots been updated to pathfinder? cuz i dont remember cantrips in d&d:smallconfused:

Nope. Still 3.5e. And cantrips have been a thing in D&D since at least 2e. Can't recall if they were in 1e.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Wow
...
I just want to say, this book has been an amazing one, possibly my favorite so far. The art, the characters, the jokes, all of it was great. Thank you so much, Giant. :smallsmile:

Now, as for the actual strip. No one has mention this yet, but I think that it is interesting how Vaarsuvius is Wormhole-proofing the Mechane. I feel sorry for Roy, trying to recover from the harrowing events of today. And,
Holy cow, what happened to Durkon!
Well, it looks like I was wrong. However, the last panel makes me feel like there is still hope! Go Durkon!

[ti'esar]

Dammit, wrong on another vampire theory.

[GideonWells]

Skimmed the five pages, apologies if I missed it in all the Durkon spec, but what is that thing in the top right corner of frame 1? It looks like the Snarl, but it is high up in the air. Is the Azure breach, if it happened there too, that big to be visible from this far?

[Komatik]

Buffyverse it is, then.

But the Buffy camp still had no damn proof :smallfurious:

[MrMercury]

My theory on OotS vampires: Western vampires and Northern vampires work differently. Malack, a western vampire, seemed to be under the impression that Durkon would be back to his old self once freed. If Malack were possessed by a foreign spirit and not actually himself, he would know from experience that Durkon wouldn't be the same person.

Therefore, Western vampires, who are under Nergal's portfolio, are the same person as their living selves. Northern/Dwarven vampires, who are under Hel's portfolio, are like Buffy vampires, possessed by an evil spirit.

Exactly, I think Malack and Durkula are different types of vampire, since Durkula seems fully aware that Durkon is still there, whereas Malack seemed to think Durkon would be the same or similar person afterwards, which he would not think if he knew that he kept the lizardtribesman in servitude.


All I can think to say is - -

44 DAYS UNTIL THE NEXT OOTS???!?!?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
That's not *really* that long
*ducks and hides*

Anyways, great strip!
Have a wonderful vacation!
I wonder if the high priest of Thor will have a confrontation with Durkula and know it's not Durkon? That's going to be my wild theory
Either that, or I'm calling Belkar kills Durkula to pay back the debt he owes Durkon for him dying to save him, and may die in the process (although Durkon would probably revive him- unless Belkar gets completely vaporised)
I wonder if Belkars alignment will eventually change?

[Keltest]

Buffyverse it is, then.

But the Buffy camp still had no damn proof :smallfurious:

but hey, at least you can change your sig now.

[Everyl]

As much as I thought that vampire Durkon was probably just Durkon with some unwilling personality changes attached, it is kind of good to know why he didn't care at all about his lost heirloom hammer and shield (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0237.html). And it's nice to see that Durkon's spirit does indeed have a spirit copy of the shield when we see it through Durkula's eye, much like Horace Greenhilt's sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0498.html) in the Celestial Realm.

The fact that Durkula hasn't mentioned it, combined with his line about "he cannot resist providing me with his memories when I call upon them," hints that Durkula has to actively try to pull information out of Durkon's mind. If he doesn't think to look for a particular tidbit, he doesn't automatically know it. This might be the key to how his deception is eventually uncovered - people might notice him overlooking things that Durkon should know about, but that Durkula doesn't realize he should know about. This is especially true if he has to try to go incognito among dwarves, who might catch on to things being subtly off in his reactions to things, like he's some sort of alien spirit wearing a dwarf's body.

[ellindsey]

Skimmed the five pages, apologies if I missed it in all the Durkon spec, but what is that thing in the top right corner of frame 1? It looks like the Snarl, but it is high up in the air. Is the Azure breach, if it happened there too, that big to be visible from this far?

Julio flying off into the sunset on a flying carpet.

[Agnostik]

Skimmed the five pages, apologies if I missed it in all the Durkon spec, but what is that thing in the top right corner of frame 1? It looks like the Snarl, but it is high up in the air. Is the Azure breach, if it happened there too, that big to be visible from this far?
...it's Julio Scoundrel... :smallconfused:

[mightycleric]

While I'm certainly happy to know that my favorite character is not, himself, a vampire, and that, if they do raise him from the dead, that he won't be evil, it is definitely painful to see him bound there, and able to know everything that is happening.

While I thought Hel would make a decent choice for a "new deity", I certainly didn't expect her to be the one that, essentially, "forged" Durkula, herself.

I hope Durkula gets staked soon, and that we get to see Durkon back in the land of the living. I also hope he fights back even harder against Durkula in the future, and maybe gets control enough to ask them to kill him and resurrect him. I dare not speculate on the likelihood of that, though.

I must say, though, hats off to you, Giant on this book. Despite killing off my favorite character, and ending the book by showing him trapped and struggling as his body is used for evil, I found I was still continually drawn in and loving the story. Just another show of your excellent writing abilities.

[Grey Watcher]

Well, as for potential for character development, maybe when (and I do hope it's a function of "when" and not "if") the Vampire is staked and Durkon resurrected, I wonder how easy it will be to get back into Thor's good graces? I mean, yeah, none of it's his fault, but if anything's true about OOTS-verse, it's that the Gods, even the nominally Good ones, aren't exactly charitable with mortals.

[Grogmir]

Wow. The juxtaposition between the 1st half "we're too dumb to fail.. Hurrah!"

and the Darkness of Durkon trapped, in an evil eye, by his own blood. Wow.

[GideonWells]

Julio flying off into the sunset on a flying carpet.

Ahh, thanks. Once you pointed it out it became obvious that is what it was.

[noesis]

Since I fretted about what kind of story we were getting when Durkula came on to the scene, I feel like I should pipe up for why the Giant is doing it right here. Masterfully even.

I take it the main complaint is that we're losing the opportunity for character development, now that we find out that Durkula isn't Durkon. But there was no real opportunity for satisfying character development in the first place, had Durkon and Durkula been "the same person." It would have been like taking a character, developing his story up to some arbitrary point, and then waving a magic wand that changes that character's personality all around so that the story can go in a new direction. To me, that's not character development; it's just lazy storytelling. I mean, I don't want to sound condescending: there are different types of stories, and in something other than a character-driven story (which OOTS has largely been so far) that kind of change could work well. But I think the move that Rich has made here sets up the possibility of a satisfying end to Durkon's narrative arc, which is great.

I have no idea what is going to happen in the story, but this recent development actually holds out the promise of organic character development, as Durkon-- the same benighted soul "we" met back in Origin of PCs--is forced to change his perspective (or the like) in order to cope with his current predicament and the inevitable fall-out to come. Will watching "himself" wreak utter destruction on the Dwarven Homelands teach Durkon something about what really matters in life? Tune in next month to find out, kiddies.

[Thanatosia]

My theory on OotS vampires: Western vampires and Northern vampires work differently. Malack, a western vampire, seemed to be under the impression that Durkon would be back to his old self once freed. If Malack were possessed by a foreign spirit and not actually himself, he would know from experience that Durkon wouldn't be the same person.

Therefore, Western vampires, who are under Nergal's portfolio, are the same person as their living selves. Northern/Dwarven vampires, who are under Hel's portfolio, are like Buffy vampires, possessed by an evil spirit.
I don't see any evidence of 2 different branches of Vampires. Malak never said Durkon would be the same once he became a vampire IIRC. Malak DID clearly state that he was not the same lizard he was when he was alive, and that allowing Durkon to stake and resurrect him would be killing the being he is now - the implication being that Malak knows full well that he is not the same entity he was pre-vampirism, thus making any 2-type vampire theories unnecisary.

I think Malak was just willing to sacrifice his friendship with Durkon to replace it with a friendship with Durkula - affably evil he may be, Malak IS still very very evil, so his interest in his friendship with Durkon is entirely based on what social satisfaction HE (Malak) gets out of the relationship - if he can get the same satisfaction from a friendship with a Durkula, there's nothing in his nature to make him want to preserve Durkon .

[MrMercury]

Man, Durkon looks PISSED :smallbiggrin:
He's going to wreck some stuff when he gets raised
(And he better get raised... he's probably my favorite character from the order)

[Anarion]

This is just...just incredibly AWESOME!

Wow. I am in awe if this ending. So much setup, Hel is really cool (and I love her wolf!), in one fell swoop the story of the next book is set in motion, and yet we get to feel good about the Order and how they came our of this.

Also, addressing what happened to Durkon's soul is a bold move on this forum of all places and I look forward to seeing what that bit of flavor has to say about the undead in this comic.

[Keltest]

As much as I thought that vampire Durkon was probably just Durkon with some unwilling personality changes attached, it is kind of good to know why he didn't care at all about his lost heirloom hammer and shield (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0237.html). And it's nice to see that Durkon's spirit does indeed have a spirit copy of the shield when we see it through Durkula's eye, much like Horace Greenhilt's sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0498.html) in the Celestial Realm.

The fact that Durkula hasn't mentioned it, combined with his line about "he cannot resist providing me with his memories when I call upon them," hints that Durkula has to actively try to pull information out of Durkon's mind. If he doesn't think to look for a particular tidbit, he doesn't automatically know it. This might be the key to how his deception is eventually uncovered - people might notice him overlooking things that Durkon should know about, but that Durkula doesn't realize he should know about. This is especially true if he has to try to go incognito among dwarves, who might catch on to things being subtly off in his reactions to things, like he's some sort of alien spirit wearing a dwarf's body.

He still does have the shield. I don't know about the hammer. You cant see it on his person, but its possible he has it in hammerspace (*groan*) like Elan's lute and rapier, or Belkar's knives. Or Haley's dagger.

[ti'esar]

In other news, the art in this strip was incredible, and I love seeing Julio flying away as a tiny speck in the first panel.

...I really don't want to call the vampire Durkula, though.

[JennTora]

This answers the question I had about where Durkula was getting his spells. I figured Thor wouldn't be providing the spells any longer .... to an undead vampire anyways. But, I wanted Durkula to be Durkon so badly. But I guess the speech Redcloak gave Tsukiko in #830 said it all. The undead aren't people anymore....bits of skin and bone and dark energy.

Not unless Roy's dad has to go to the abyss, find the demon that the human xykon got turned into, and kill it.


SoD spoiler:
And why would xykon have flipped out so much about not getting to drink coffee anymore if he really never got to in the first place.

Apparently, vampires aren't people, but Redcloak just said that to make himself feel better. Tsukiko was a Mystic Theurge who was kicked out of some of the best wizard academies around. She may not have a knowledge granting artifact created by a god, but her opinion on undead isn't totally worthless. Sometimes gross, maybe, but not worthless.

[Iago]

Durkulus: "Okay, Roy, let's deal with this. Durkon was an excruciating loser who couldn't even say 'the' correctly. Look at me, I'm a new man!"

Well spoken, sir.

One only hopes that Roy, or at least one of the humans, will be able to man up and do on purpose what Xander was unable to do except by accident. Otherwise, Vaarsuvius or Belkar will need to give Durkula the Old Yeller treatment, and my great respect for Mr. Burlew's writing notwithstanding, I don't think that would be nearly as intense an emotional scene.

[Porthos]

Well, as for potential for character development, maybe when (and I do hope it's a function of "when" and not "if") the Vampire is staked and Durkon resurrected, I wonder how easy it will be to get back into Thor's good graces? I mean, yeah, none of it's his fault, but if anything's true about OOTS-verse, it's that the Gods, even the nominally Good ones, aren't exactly charitable with mortals.

Well, Durkon himself might feel guilty over everything that happened while he was trapped. Lots of room for angst there. :smallsmile:

Also, as others have noted, Durkon might always try to break through and wrest control for a while. Might be interesting to see him plead with Roy to stake him before Durkula re-takes control.

Who knows. Lots of ways this could go.

[FleshrakerAbuse]

The change in mood was perfectly captured by the sudden introduction of the shadow on Durkula's face. Suddenly, 3-DDDDDDD!!!

Also, what happens when the vampire gains levels? Does the real Durkula gain levels too?

[Naomi Li]

Durkula is still a person (and probably a rather young one). While killing him would certainly be an acceptable thing to do in order to prevent him from harming people, it is still a sub-optimal solution.

Prediction: Durkon's vampire body will NOT be destroyed by the end of the story, but Durkon will have gained at least partial control over it relatively soon. Whether Durkula is annihilated, banished to Hel's hall, chained away deep in Durkon's mind, or in a cooperative timeshare with Durkon, I cannot say, though I like the last one the best.

[Goosefarble]

:smalleek:
:smalleek:
:smalleek:
:eek:

[Kalaska'Agathas]

The change in mood was perfectly captured by the sudden introduction of the shadow on Durkula's face. Suddenly, 3-DDDDDDD!!!

Also, what happens when the vampire gains levels? Does the real Durkula gain levels too?

I don't know about in general, but with what, at least 17 levels of Cleric (Durkon was casting ninths, right?) and an L.A. of 8, Durkulus here won't have to worry about leveling for a while.

[Dire Moose]

I was assuming the Order would at least attempt to have Durkon resurrected at the earliest opportunity.

Now, though, I wonder if such an attempt would even work, considering the state of Durkon's soul.

[Komatik]

Wait, Durkula really does worship Hel? So the crazy speculators were right? Again?

Well, there was no proof of that until this point. Giant said Durkon was a nontheistic Cleric, the template says nothing about a malign Buffyverse demon taking over the host, in which case Durkon would have no reason for that.

Durkula the Hel-created Demon? Totally should be a priest of Hel.

[Porthos]

I don't know about in general, but with what, at least 17 levels of Cleric (Durkon was casting ninths, right?) and an L.A. of 8, Durkulus here won't have to worry about leveling for a while.

Eighth, actually. But I think the sentiment remains correct nonetheless.

[Keltest]

I was assuming the Order would at least attempt to have Durkon resurrected at the earliest opportunity.

Now, though, I wonder if such an attempt would even work, considering the state of Durkon's soul.

In order to resurrect him, they would need to stake him. the spell doesn't work on undead unless theyre destroyed first, and many forms of killing a vampire don't leave a body to cast it on.

[PaulRedeker22]

I started reading OotS when the Battle of Azure City was being written, and I can honestly say I haven't regretted reading a single panel of this comic.

[Bulldog Psion]

Well ... okay, I was totally wrong about that one. I was sure it was really Durkon, just infected with darkness. But, it's Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Malack was actually some demonic spirit with the shaman's soul trapped somewhere inside him.

So, no character development for Durkon -- just reinforcement of his existing prejudices.

But we do get to see the wrath of Hel unleashed on the dwarves. :smallcool: Which should lead to plenty of interesting, exciting developments.

As I put it once last year:

You better watch out,
You'd do best to fly,
Better to rout,
I'm telling you why,
Durkula is coming to town.

He's making a list,
He's checking it twice,
Gonna find out
Who he wants to slice,
Durkula is coming to town.

He sees when you are sleeping,
And comes for blood by night,
He's a priest of destruction and dying,
So get ready for a fight!

Oh, you better watch out,
You'd do best to fly,
Better to rout,
Or you're gonna die,
Durkula is coming to town!
Durkula is coming to town!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Also, what happens when the vampire gains levels? Does the real Durkula gain levels too?
It's going to be so long until Durkula levels up that it won't matter anyway. Vampires have a +8 Level Adjustment, which means that (at least for the purpose of leveling) he needs enough experience to reach his next level+8 before he levels up.

[Porthos]

Well, there was no proof of that until this point. Giant said Durkon was a nontheistic Cleric, the template says nothing about a malign Buffyverse demon taking over the host, in which case Durkon would have no reason for that.

Durkula the Hel-created Demon? Totally should be a priest of Hel.

The SRD doesn't, no. Not the only source of info on vampires in D&D though.

...


hamishspence should be pleased to see his talking about Libris Mortis didn't go to waste. :smallwink:

[ti'esar]

Also also, thanks for the book, Giant!

[Porthos]

So, no character development for Durkon -- just reinforcement of his existing prejudices.

Why do people keep saying this? :smallconfused: :smallconfused: :smallconfused:

There is PLENTY of room for character development because of what happened here. Just not the character development many of us thought it would be, myself included.

[The Giant]

Well, there was no proof of that until this point. Giant said Durkon was a nontheistic Cleric,

No, I didn't. This is what I said:


Tell you what, you read the vampire template entry, particularly the part where it explicitly says that vampire clerics can still cast spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) just with different domain access, and you tell me where it says anything about gods or temporary loss of access there. It doesn't. Vampire clerics do not need to worship a god to cast spells, because NO cleric needs a god to cast spells. The rules specifically allow for "non-theistic" clerics, and explains exactly what the effects of turning into a vampire has on a cleric: Rebuke instead of Turn, different domains. Period.

All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

Which this comic is not. :smalltongue:

[AstralFire]

As someone who was pulling for "one spirit forcibly altered", I am nevertheless pleased by this course for how thoroughly it tosses some rather self-assured arguments on their faces.

Outside of that, I'm not particularly a fan of this turn of events, though.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Also, I don't see why Durkon can't get some character development right now. He still exists, and he shouod have plenty of chances to grow as a result of what he is currently undergoing.
Lol, ninja'ed.

[Porthos]

All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

Which this comic is not. :smalltongue:

Tricksy Tricksy, Giantiees. :smalltongue:

[Valanarch]

I hope that the Durkon/Durkula Relationship becomes something like the one in the Dresden Files between

Lash and Harry.

[Oddity222]

Well, can't say I'm surprised, Malak did say that he spared Belkar in the memory of Durkon that was, saying this to Durkula himself...And he himself said that he and his mortal Shaman self were separate beings, not to mention if Durkon would be the same as a vampire, it would undermine his sacrifice...But Kudos to those that said Hel would be Durkon’s deity, I thought he would worship Nergal like Malack, if any diety.

[derfenrirwolv]

D'awwww... fenris looks so cute!

[Kalaska'Agathas]

In order to resurrect him, they would need to stake him. the spell doesn't work on undead unless theyre destroyed first, and many forms of killing a vampire don't leave a body to cast it on.

Given that a creature dusted by Disintegrate leaves sufficient remains to cast Resurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm), I suspect a dusted vamp would be similarly resurrectable. You'd just have to take care to make sure the vampdust isn't blown away or lost amidst a desert's worth of sand.

[Keltest]

I hope that the Durkon/Durkula Relationship becomes something like the one in the Dresden Files between

Lash and Harry.

I don't, because

It didn't end up well for Lash, nor did she end up actually manipulating Harry much. Character development of Lash aside, she was still fairly impotent in the day to day actions.

[Terrador]

So far as I can tell, a lotta folk are saying this vampire is totally not Durkon. Although his personality is his own... how much does he draw on Durkon's memories? How much of a personal past does he have? Questions I'm looking forward to seeing answered someday.

[Everyl]

He still does have the shield. I don't know about the hammer. You cant see it on his person, but its possible he has it in hammerspace (*groan*) like Elan's lute and rapier, or Belkar's knives. Or Haley's dagger.

Guh. Nevermind then, I should really look before I post more often.

[DanaK]

So after my initial hysterics subsided, I'm actually finding this makes Durkon's death/vamping a little easier to deal with, knowing that he's still in there, fighting as much as he can.

[Oddity222]

D'awwww... fenris looks so cute!

He is indeed, but I think it's really Garm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garmr), but I cannot blame you, I myself thought it's Fenris at first.

[Gift Jeraff]

Guh. Nevermind then, I should really look before I post more often.

To be fair, I think you're right about the hammer.

[Komatik]

No, I didn't. This is what I said:



All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

Which this comic is not. :smalltongue:

...

*pout*


Disappointed somehow at the Buffyverse style vampirism, but I trust you to make something amazing out of it anyway.

[Keltest]

To be fair, I think you're right about the hammer.

I am as well, if only because the Giant has taken the time to draw it on Durkon's belt in the past if he was not holding it.

But again, hammerspace (*Groan again*). It wouldn't be the first time a tool disappeared until it was needed.

For that matter, it might become a brick joke about how a D&D player would forget to mention that they retrieve their "Vorpal blade of Killing Things by Looking At Them Sideways" if they get disarmed for some reason.

[Komatik]

Actually, this gives us more reason not to stake the vampire. That should kill both. The Vampire must be raised first, which will not be easy with those vampire powers getting in the way.

Uh, no. It's entirely possible to raise Lawful Good Dwarven Cleric Durkon Thundershield (who dislikes human ale 'cause it's moose urine) with a good old Resurrection spell, while leaving Durkula, Hel-spawned Demon somewhere nasty where he belongs. It's not a problem at all.

...except that you have to stake a high-level evil cleric with no compunctions of killing his old "friends" first. Which is admittedly a bit of a drag on the stake-and-resurrect plan.


So Durkula is a totally different person. Hmmm.

I'm kind of disappointed just because I love seeing The Giant's takes on alignments and personality. And I think a Good person forced to become Evil is a fascinating development. An evil pretender who knows full-well what he's doing is also a compelling story, just not as unique.

Anyway, a dramatic end to the chapter and nice hook for the next.

Agreed.

[oppyu]

So, we all down with staking the undead abomination now? And we're agreed that the vampire is not the real Durkon? Alright.

That last panel is serious nightmare fuel.

[AstralFire]

Why does everyone call this "Buffy" vampirism when this kind of approach to the undead in general has existed well before that show, if not always as clear in the metaphysical mechanics?

[Pronounceable]

I don't understand how Giant can manage to make stick figures look so epic. How you art?

In other news, do we know goddess of exactly what Hel is? I presume destruction, just because of the prophecy's wording but we know for sure? A goddess of death and destruction would probably want to release Snarl for giggles, while complete destruction of mortal world wouldn't be a very desirable goal for a goddess of dwarves, evil or disease.

[Keltest]

Why does everyone call this "Buffy" vampirism when this kind of approach to the undead in general has existed well before that show, if not always as clear in the metaphysical mechanics?

because that popularized the idea. And besides, its Buffy.

[MSTang]

So, we all down with staking the undead abomination now? And we're agreed that the vampire is not the real Durkon? Alright.

That last panel is serious nightmare fuel.

Serious nightmare fuel, indeed.

[Joseph_Lavode]

Well... sadly that answers all kinds of Durkon related questions.

[Komatik]

The one positive thing in all of this? A really goddamn super huge one?

Durkula is smooth, plans ahead, has the power to make things happen. He reminds me of a certain other Lawful Evil Cleric in the comic. And the one thing about that Machiavellian monstrosity with an eyepatch? HE'S AWESOME.

:smallbiggrin:

[mikeejimbo]

Well.

That answers a few questions.

[Gift Jeraff]

Interesting parallels between "Service is my sole purpose, my lady," Malack's speech about service being the natural order, and Durkon's speech about duty.

[thatSeniorGuy]

:elan: DUN DUN DUUUUUH!!!!!!

So, count me onboard with stake-Durkula-and-ressurrect-Durkon people now, this need to be fixed ASAP.

Giant: thank-you very much for a great conclusion to a story arc that has probably been the hardest for you to produce. I wish you a very productive "time away producing comics" "break"!

Also, nice touch with Julio flying away, and with V correcting Bandana!

[Lombard]

Actually if you look closely, you can see Trigak struggling inside the Durkon's eye who is struggling inside the Durkula's eye.. it's like a soul petrushka

[CarpeGuitarrem]

WOW.

That may just be the best book-ending strip so far. Although we've had some hard-to-top ones.

[Porthos]

I will say one thing. Durkula looks so happy in the last panel of page 2 as he is being complemented by Hel. :smallsmile:

If it was any other character, I'd go d'awwww.

But, no. Still staking time. :smalltongue:

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Actually if you look closely, you can see Trigak struggling inside the Durkon's eye who is struggling inside the Durkula's eye.. it's like a soul petrushka

Matryoshka. Petrushka is a ballet.

[Kepler]

The fact that Durkula hasn't mentioned it, combined with his line about "he cannot resist providing me with his memories when I call upon them," hints that Durkula has to actively try to pull information out of Durkon's mind. If he doesn't think to look for a particular tidbit, he doesn't automatically know it. This might be the key to how his deception is eventually uncovered - people might notice him overlooking things that Durkon should know about, but that Durkula doesn't realize he should know about. This is especially true if he has to try to go incognito among dwarves, who might catch on to things being subtly off in his reactions to things, like he's some sort of alien spirit wearing a dwarf's body.

Setting up for Hilgya to work it out when he doesn't recognize her...

[zql]

:smalleek:

well, I think it must been said a couple of times by now, but what most disturbs me about this strip is that by Durkon's expression of anger in last panel, he's watching and listening everything

so much for that peaceful smile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0877.html)

[Shale]

I have to say, even though the Order has a demonic spy in their midst now, I am legitimately happy to see that Durkon is still in there and may return triumphant if they manage to give him a chance. It beats watching him be slowly corrupted by his "condition."

Edit: it doesn't hurt that Durkula chose "he is of no concern" for the ending to his evil speech, which as Elan could tell you basically guarantees that Durkon will damn well be a concern.

[Porthos]

I will say one other thing. Doesn't Durkula know that you NEVER say things like "He is powerless to stop us" or "He is of no concern"?

:elan:: That's just begging him to prove you wrong at the worst moment possible!

...

Obviously this cat hasn't absorbed the wisdom of Elan properly yet. :smallamused:

[CoffeeIncluded]

I will say one other thing. Doesn't Durkula know that you NEVER say things like "He is powerless to stop us" or "He is of no concern"?

:elan:: That's just begging him to prove you wrong at the worst moment possible!

...

Obviously this cat hasn't absorbed the wisdom of Elan properly yet. :smallamused:

Hey, I already said that! :smalltongue:

But yeah, he just sealed his own fate with that line.

[mightycleric]

Why do people keep saying this? :smallconfused: :smallconfused: :smallconfused:

There is PLENTY of room for character development because of what happened here. Just not the character development many of us thought it would be, myself included.

Indeed. In fact, this way provides more room for character "development" in my opinion. The other way would have been character "reformatting" more than "development", since it would have been taking the Durkon that had existed and fundamentally changing him in an instant. This way we can see Durkon's character actually develop, based on how he deals with the coming circumstances. Durkon is my favorite character, and I look forward to seeing what developments come, at this point, and I'm certainly happy to know that he will be keeping his current character and developing it, rather than changing his outlook entirely, then potentially developing from there.

[Keltest]

Hey, I already said that! :smalltongue:

But yeah, he just sealed his own fate with that line.

that's an alarmingly comforting thought.

[runeghost]

I knew it! But poor Durkon. :smalleek: Didn't he die in combat? Shouldn't his soul be with Thor by rights?

[t209]

By Thor, he's trapped inside.
Somewhere, Robbaz and Yogscast Simon is furious about this.

[GrandHighWizard]

It has been a great ride for me. My friends were inspired by this, and that is why I play Dungeons and Dragons. Hopefully still have the original order trying to save the world.

Cheers Rich Burlew

[zql]

oh, and I'm REALLY glad that my favorite fantasy story didn't hook on that "vampires are misunderstanded, different but ultimately good guys" trend

[Codyage]

1. Order of the Stick
2. Sapphire Guard
3. Vector Legion
4. Linear Guild
5. Redcloak
6. Xykon
7. Snarl
8. IFCC
9. Hel


Is that all 9 sides?

[Porthos]

Hey, I already said that! :smalltongue:

But yeah, he just sealed his own fate with that line.

It needed to be repeated.

or

Great minds think alike.

Take your pick. :smalltongue:

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Setting up for Hilgya to work it out when he doesn't recognize her...

Hilgya: "Hilg? You just called ... What's the matter with you?"


Indeed. In fact, this way provides more room for character "development" in my opinion. The other way would have been character "reformatting" more than "development", since it would have been taking the Durkon that had existed and fundamentally changing him in an instant. This way we can see Durkon's character actually develop, based on how he deals with the coming circumstances. Durkon is my favorite character, and I look forward to seeing what developments come, at this point, and I'm certainly happy to know that he will be keeping his current character and developing it, rather than changing his outlook entirely, then potentially developing from there.

I'm of the same mind. Though I fear for the state of him, after he comes out of it.

[Saturosian]

Oh, good. I thought it was an odd choice for Durkon to be "Durkon, with blood-sucking habits." High Priest of Hel makes much more sense.

And...the end is really here! That's exciting. Now it's time to do another archive run...

[Keltest]

1. Order of the Stick
2. Sapphire Guard
3. Vector Legion
4. Linear Guild
5. Redcloak
6. Xykon
7. Snarl
8. IFCC
9. Hel


Is that all 9 sides?

I don't think we can count the Snarl as a side. But ill bet the Demon Roaches have a plot.

[RPGaddict28]

Oh, wow, that's something.

[e1_conquistador]

Kinda suspected something like this. We were all pretty sure becoming undead would sever Thor's ties to Durkula....but he was still getting spells from somewhere. Hel's a reasonable suspect (as well as a cool character).

I'm a little confused why the dwarves are "property" of the Norse pantheon, but the gods are all human...it appears to be OOTS cannon, though, so *shrug*.

You would *think* Elan's dad and his crew might pitch in and help somewhere along the line. If the world gets trashed, that includes their kingdoms.

CAN'T WAIT.

[DanaK]

Actually if you look closely, you can see Trigak struggling inside the Durkon's eye who is struggling inside the Durkula's eye.. it's like a soul petrushka

That'd be matroshka, dear :small tongue:

Edit: Dang, ninja'd.

[Mynoduesp]

Wow. That gave me chills.

Anyhow, I call them finding out far into the future and having to make a split second decision about whether to stake (or otherwise kill) Durkula killing Durkon with him, or letting him continue to do evil.
I also call cause of death to be Roy stabbing him.

[UristMcRandom]

Wow... Just, wow...

Excellent book, EPIC cliffhanger. Now to read strips 1-945 again to pass time.

CURSE YOU MONTH-LONG WAIT!

(P.S. First book-end as an OotS fan, I started reading from the beginning mid-BRitF, when Julio's arrival was the big cliffhanger. Basically, this is a milestone for me.)

[MSTang]

Wow... Just, wow...

Excellent book, EPIC cliffhanger. Now to read strips 1-945 again to pass time.

CURSE YOU MONTH-LONG WAIT!

(P.S. First book-end as an OotS fan, I started reading from the beginning mid-BRitF, when Julio's arrival was the big cliffhanger. Basically, this is a milestone for me.)

What's BRitF? Is that your name for the just-ended book, or is that officially the title? ("Blood Runs in the Family?")

[eaglewingz]

Great minds think alike.

A prior boss used to rejoinder that with, "Or fools follow each other" :smallwink:

[DigoDragon]

I'm reminded of one campaign I was in where the GM couldn't decide on a single plot line to run us through, so he ran us through all of them. So yeah, kinda takes a "too dumb to quit" party like the OotS to keep at this. :smallbiggrin:

[Shale]

What's BRitF? Is that your name for the just-ended book, or is that officially the title? ("Blood Runs in the Family?")

It's the official title, as listed in the 2014 calendar. (Good job figuring it out from the acronym!)

[RNGgod]

So, uh, the commentary in DStP: "we will meet one of the nine sides...there will be one all-new contender for the gates."


We were assuming Tarquin would return to the story because either he or Vector Legion (I knew I got it wrong the first time, sorry) become sides.


But it could be Hel and her High Priest...

[DanaK]

:smallconfused: Who's Vector Squad? Am I missing something here?

[Kalaska'Agathas]

:smallconfused: Who's Vector Squad? Am I missing something here?

The Vector Legion is Tarquin's party.

[DanaK]

Ohhhh :smallbiggrin: I get it now. I like that name.

[Zea mays]

Oh Durkon, Durkon...
His expression in that last panel is harrowing.

That said, this book has been amazing. Thank you so much for the great ride Giant!

[Martok]

Nice twist, Giant! I can't say I was *completely* surprised...just mostly. :smallredface:


Looking forward to when the strip starts back up in ~6 weeks!

[Valanarch]

I don't, because

It didn't end up well for Lash, nor did she end up actually manipulating Harry much. Character development of Lash aside, she was still fairly impotent in the day to day actions.

I meant the other way around, with Durkula being the one who has the character development, rebels against Hel, and sacrifices himself to save Durkon.

[WindStruck]

There we go! The totally conclusive proof we needed! About time.

I don't know whether to like Hel or to be afraid of her though. I mean, she's the Dwarven God of Death. Can't really blame her for her tendencies. But she does look right and seems to be quite correct that Thor is a buffoon. Or maybe Thor isn't (or wasn't) really a buffoon, but has grown complacent and been drunk too much of the time, which seems to be always, now.

I suppose the what I'd like to see instead of more Hel now is Thor being a brilliant badass.

[Keltest]

I meant the other way around, with Durkula being the one who has the character development, rebels against Hel, and sacrifices himself to save Durkon.

I dunno, that seems almost cliché. I could see him having character development, but I don't see him apologizing for being evil any more than Sabine does.

[BungleBee]

Great comic, Rich. Have a smooth and pleasurable visit at the dentists. :biggrin:

[cctrackstar]

Sorry if i repeat someone, but I'm not reading over ten pages of responses. I wonder what our three friends in the underworld think of this. Do they stop it, or do they go along with it and even encourage it? Their motives have been confusing up to this point.

[Ridureyu]

So... as we have seen before, when there is a time gap between comics, the forum becomes stranger and more volatile every day. Remember the break when the Giant's hard drive crashed? That wasn't pretty.

So what is going to happen to us in the next six weeks? Lord of the Flies?

[Ninja_Grand]

Giant, you wonderful dastard!