The D9 of OoTS

[KingFlameHawk]

Now that the strips are being but on hiatus for a month and a half, as with the end of every book, so I think I would like to see if we have figured out who the nine sides fighting for the gates are. For me I think it would be:

1. The order and allies
2. Redcloak and goblins
3. Xykon
4. The IFCC
5. The Linear Guild, replaced by team Tarquin
6. The Gods
7. Hel
8. The Snarl
9. Unknown

For the 9th I think it could be either the elves, the thieves guild or possibly Serini if she is somehow alive.

[Grey Watcher]

Now that the strips are being but on hiatus for a month and a half, as with the end of every book, so I think I would like to see if we have figured out who the nine sides fighting for the gates are. For me I think it would be:

1. The order and allies
2. Redcloak and goblins
3. Xykon
4. The IFCC
5. The Linear Guild, replaced by team Tarquin
6. The Gods
7. Hel
8. The Snarl
9. Unknown

For the 9th I think it could be either the elves, the thieves guild or possibly Serini if she is somehow alive.

The two big problems with the 9 Sides thing is that, first of all, it's at least 9 sides. Which means there's who knows how many more, depending on which way you split things and such, and secondly that we don't know if that's 9 sides in all, 9 sides that the Roaches know about, 9 sides that Redcloak knows about, or some other perspective.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Now that the strips are being but on hiatus for a month and a half, as with the end of every book, so I think I would like to see if we have figured out who the nine sides fighting for the gates are. For me I think it would be:

1. The order and allies
2. Redcloak and goblins
3. Xykon
4. The IFCC
5. The Linear Guild, replaced by team Tarquin
6. The Gods
7. Hel
8. The Snarl
9. Unknown

For the 9th I think it could be either the elves, the thieves guild or possibly Serini if she is somehow alive.
One problem I see is that this list condenses the good side into "Order and its allies". I think that the Sapphire Guard should at least get it's own side.

Also, so far the gods (except Hel and the Dark One) haven't done anything to protect or capture the gates, and even the aforementioned gods have been acting through mediums. As such, I wouldn't list them as a side.

In a similar vein, while the Snarl is certainly a force to be reckoned with, until recently it wasn't even aware of the destruction of the gates, ans I don't think it wants to control the gates.

Finally, it is "The Vector Legion", not "Team Tarquin"

[ThatNickGuy]

In a similar vein, while the Snarl is certainly a force to be reckoned with, until recently it wasn't even aware of the destruction of the gates, ans I don't think it wants to control the gates.

Hold the phone. Where did you come to that conclusion? We don't know anything about the Snarl's motivations or lack thereof.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Hold the phone. Where did you come to that conclusion? We don't know anything about the Snarl's motivations or lack thereof.
All right, I will amend my statement to "despite the fact that several gates have been destroyed, the Snarl was content to stay locked away in its prison". Either way, it is not a side competing for the rifts.

[ThatNickGuy]

All right, I will amend my statement to "despite the fact that several gates have been destroyed, the Snarl was content to stay locked away in its prison". Either way, it is not a side competing for the rifts.

It didn't really do much before the gates were constructed, either, though. Those tears in reality were there for al long time until Mijing was killed by (we assume) the Snarl.

Actually, I think that's a major thing that a lot of people are overlooking: The Snarl didn't escape or do any kind of major, world-destructing damage before the gates were constructed. So far as we know, it's killed two people. We still don't know what The Snarl is as far as what's beyond the gates, what its motivations are now after thousands of years, or why it chooses to attack what it has.

There's also a phrase that's been in the back of my head the whole time: unreliable narrator. We're going by the word of Soon Kim, who passed the story down to Shojo, who is DEFINITELY not someone to be trusted. We also know there was a lot of drama within Soon Kim's group, so who's to say the way he told the story is even 100% accurate?

[JessmanCA]

Also Team Tarquin should be more than one team, since Elan's dad and the psionic chick seem to not necessarily be on the same side. It's more an alliance of convenience I believe. Or she's using him to get what she wants.

[SlashDash]

That list makes little sense. Why is the Linear Guild lumped together with the Vector Legion?

Tarquin and Nale clearly had different goals. Nale wanted to grab the gate while Tarquin said he wanted to destroy it.

The Order and the Saphire guard are hardly the same either. While they are working with Hinjo, they are not absolutely aligned with them. They may have different conflicts at any point.

The gods have absolutely no activity as a side in this conflict. In fact, they aren't even that aligned with each other considering that the 12 animals kicked Thor out of the batte for Azure City.
Hel might be possible, if assume her plans to kill Thor involves the Snarl.

As for additional sides:
1) The thieves guild is a possibility, but they seem so much below epic intrest. On the other hand, seeing Bozok again might be a huge hint they'll return.

2) We'll probably see the elves land at some point and the dwarves as well. Either of those could have issues.

3) Serini is most likely dead (how else did Xykon get her diary) but in start of darkness
We know Xykon has the souls of Dorukon and Lirian trapped and they might be freed. Remember the ritual said to be used by arcane and divine casters. He's a wizard and she's a druid...

4) The oracle, some suggested he could be manipulating things to a point. And we know that Xykon tried to reach him once.

5) Tarquin's resistence might become a lot bigger, especially if whatever the heck happened in the desert would spread around.

6) Roy's dad. He could make another appearance and we know that what he wants and what Roy wants doesn't always align.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Interesting suggestions, here are a few comments:


3) Serini is most likely dead (how else did Xykon get her diary)
However, we don't know this for certain. Personally, I think that every member of The Scribble deserves a side, with Lirian and Dorukan together and Soon with the Azurites.


4) The oracle, some suggested he could be manipulating things to a point. And we know that Xykon tried to reach him once.
This one strikes me as a little unlikely, since the Oracle has shown no interest in the gates. It's not impossible, but there is no evidence for.


5)
6) Roy's dad. He could make another appearance and we know that what he wants and what Roy wants doesn't always align.
So far, Roy's dad's only interest has been to ensure that his Blood Oath is ended so he can try to get in to Celestia. He has shown no interest in the gates.

[Ghost Nappa]

Now that the strips are being but on hiatus for a month and a half, as with the end of every book, so I think I would like to see if we have figured out who the nine sides fighting for the gates are. For me I think it would be:

1. The order and allies
2. Redcloak and goblins
3. Xykon
4. The IFCC
5. The Linear Guild, replaced by team Tarquin
6. The Gods
7. Hel
8. The Snarl
9. Unknown

For the 9th I think it could be either the elves, the thieves guild or possibly Serini if she is somehow alive.

I think it's closer to the following:

1) The Order of the Stick: Roy Greenhilt, Haley Starshine, Elan the Bard, Durkon Thundershield, Vaarsuvius the Elven Wizard, and Belkar Bitterleaf

They are the PCs. I believe their inclusion is obvious.

2) The Goblinoids: The Dark One, Redcloak - High Priest of the Dark One, and the Hobgoblins of Gobbatopia

The Dark One has an OBVIOUS stake in this.

3) Xykon the Lich Sorcerer and Tsukiko the Mystic Theurge

Listed separately despite working alongside Redcloak because his goals and motivations for doing so are different. Xykon is under the impression that Redcloak is his toadie and while aware of Redcloak's occasional rebellious actions, he seems unaware of any ACTUAL betrayal on Redcloak's part.

I include Tsukiko here because she was pretty much his loyal lapdog and was acting to meet his goals, regardless of her recent death.

4) The IFCC: Nero, Cedrik, Lee, Qarr, (and Sabine?)

The biggest question for the IFCC and Linear Guild "teams" is "Where do you put Sabine?" Given that she does not seem aware of the IFCC's motivations and her own separate motives, I leave the question to others, but I will keep her in the Linear Guild "team."

5) Nale's Linear Guild: Nale, Sabine, Thog, Z'zdrti +Filler

Now defunct with Nale's death, Thog's apparent death, Z'zdrti's death and Sabine's technical defection to the IFCC. While they were rather obviously making plays for the gate, pretty much everyone is no longer making plays for the moment.

6) The Goddess of Dwarven Unhonorable Deaths, Hel, and her High Priest "Count Durkula"

The Big Reveal of 946.

7) "The Snarl"

Although whether or not this consists of 0, 1, or multiple personas is unclear. The motivations of said set of beings is also unclear.

8) The Azurites, the remnants of the Sapphire Guard, and the Elven Resistance: Honjo, O-Chul, Lien, Daigo...

They're obviously allied with the Order of the Stick, but I wonder how much that will be tested with Vaarsuvius' actions and Durkon's vampirization. Their numbers are diminished and they are losing, but they still have important roles to play.

I get the impression the Elven Resistance is kind of out of the picture.

9) Serini Toormuck & the Monster Guardians of Kraagor's Tomb

Don't forget that as far as we know, they're still there! If Dorukan (a human) was alive and kicking in old age, I don't think it's too unreasonable to think that she's still alive. Her influence probably lies less within her own fighting capacity and more in knowledge and lore.

10) The Monster in the Darkness

MitD's actions before "Team Evil's" departure from Girard's gate lead me to believe that he definitely is going to have a defection issue with Xykon and Redcloak.

11) The Draketooth Clan

The self-appointed Guardians of Girard's gate, they are defunct following Vaarsuvius' power trip with Familicide.

12) Bozzok's Thieves' Guild

If the Thieve's Guild are NOT going to make a play and/or interfere in the end-game I'm a little confused by Panels 4 and 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html). It makes more sense to include them for the time being.

13-17?)The Vector Legion

Where the camaraderie ends and the rivalry begins between the different members of "Team Tarquin" but for the moment I think Laurin has an interest in....well not dying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html)?

[happyman]

Y'know what? I'm going to go out on a limb here and claim that Hel's side is the side in the gate conflict that Rich predicted we would meet in this book. I don't think the New Western Order will be involved with the gates any more than they have been. Not because Laurin won't want to, mind, but because they won't have any choice, due to either a sudden snarly death of part of the party, a sudden and effective rebellion, or similar distractions.

In short, I want Tarquin and pals to have never been one of the nine sides. I want Tarquin to have been wrong, wrong, wrong. I want our last scene of him to be this one. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0936.html) Because that's the kind of karma I think he deserves.

[Boogastreehouse]

This thread gets started over again every few months. My latest take on the breakdown has now been updated as follows:


Known Sides:

The Mortals United (more or less) to Defeat Xykon—This faction is distinct from the gods, because it has been suggested that the gods are withholding information regarding the Rifts and the Snarl. Moreover, it has been implied that the gods might just wait and see what happens—they'll hide somewhere safe again if the world gets destroyed again, and then just return and re-boot it again later. The mortals on the other hand intend to fight to survive. This faction so far includes The Sapphire Guard, their allies the Elves and, of course, the Order of the Stick.

Girard Draketooth and his family.—This faction is distinct from the The Mortals United to Defeat Xykon, due to their ideological differences with Soon and the Saphire Guard. Girard and Soon felt that they had to protect the Rifts not only from the forces evil, but from each other. Serini, another former member of the Order of the Scribble, may still be an ally or representative of this side, making her the last survivor of the faction. If not, then this side has been completely wiped out.

Xykon—the epic lich sorcerer who wants to take control of the Gates, mainly just because he can. He intends to use the power of the Gates for his own evil amusement. His pawns include Redcloak (who actually belongs to another side), and the Monster in the Darkness (who will probably turn on him, thanks to the guidance of the Paladin O-Chul). His only other pawn (and the only one truly loyal to him), Tsukiko, is now dead.

The Dark One—and his High Priest, Redcloak. The Dark One is apparently prepared to use the Snarl as a tool for blackmailing the gods, and is willing to either kill the gods or to unmake reality if his demands are not met. Now that the Dark One is a god, himself, he expects to be able to survive the destruction, like the gods managed to do last time, and then be a part of the process of remaking the next world.

The Gods—beings who allegedly want to keep the Snarl imprisoned, for their own protection and incidentally for the benefit of the world. They seem to have a lot in common with the Mortals United to Defeat Xykon, but would apparently abandon the mortals in order to save themselves, or unmake the world and re-bind the Snarl more securely. The gods who were/are secretly aiding and advising The Dark One (Loki, I think? And Rat? And Tiamat?) might be on that side, or belong to a faction of their own.

The IFCC (The Inter-Fiend Cooperation Commission)—An Infernal Alliance that now knows of the gates that imprison the Snarl. Their stated goal is to storm the Gates of Heaven in a properly Milton-like fashion, probably using the Snarl as a weapon. Assuming they're telling the truth. Their pawns include Sabine and any surviving members of The Linear Guild, Quaar, and now that they have a brief claim on her/his soul, Vaarsuvius is probably their ace-in-the-hole.


Possible Sides:

Tarquin's Party/The Vector Legion—The Secret Masters of the Empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears. We haven't enough information at this time to conclude that they are or will be a faction. It is possible that they will now be interested in exploring and exploiting this set of "rifts" that they've recently discovered, and Laurin may have discovered some new information. Or she may have gotten killed

Dorukan the Wizard and Lirian the Druid—We have seen that these two former members of the Order of the Scribble continued to have (very) friendly contact (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) after their party split up. We haven't enough information at this time, however, to conclude that they were a separate faction, although they could have been alienated by both Soon and/or Girard, and even if they had no ill-will for those two, they may have been driven away by the feud between them. Serini, the only member of the Order of the Scribble still unaccounted for, may be allied with the Druid and the Wizard. Dorukan and Lirian have both been defeated and have had their souls imprisoned by Xykon.

The Snarl—a creature that, to the best of my knowledge, has only been depicted in flashbacks relating second-hand historical events has just made its first awesome appearance, and that allegedly wants to unmake the world and kill the gods. No known pawns or sub-factions.

Inhabitants of the Inner World—Any people living on the world that may exist within the Rifts would probably have their own priorities, though what they are remains unknown at this time. Perhaps they want to see the Snarl destroyed, or maybe that's the last thing that they want. Maybe the Greek Pantheon is in there, too. Their agenda, if they have one (if they even know about the outside world... and assuming there are even people on this planet!) remains uncertain.

The Oracle/Tiamat/their teleporting-and-resurrecting-lizard-folk-buddies—We haven't enough information at this time to conclude that they are or will be a faction.

The Evil Gods of the Three Pantheons—The gods who aided and advised The Dark One during his apotheosis (and perhaps still are aiding and advising him?). I think I remember Loki defending the Dark One from the other gods? And Rat? And Tiamat? They might be on the side of the gods, but I suspect they belong to a faction of their own, and they are manipulating the Dark One.

Hel—Looks like I've got to add Hel and her agent Durkon, or rather, the vampire in possession of Durkon's body, as a possible side. So far she hasn't specifically mentioned the Gates, but her allusions to a plan that will bring the world to ruin and bring Thor to his knees suggest that she might want control of the Gate.

The Greysky City Thieves' Guild—It is possible that Bozzak will follow up on the information regarding Haley's journey to the North. At this time they do not appear to have any knowledge about the Gates.


It looks better with some space

[KingFlameHawk]

That list makes little sense. Why is the Linear Guild lumped together with the Vector Legion?

Tarquin and Nale clearly had different goals. Nale wanted to grab the gate while Tarquin said he wanted to destroy it.

I did not lump them together. What I said is the the Linear Guild was a side in the conflict that got replaced as a side in the conflict by the Vector Legion when T killed Nale. I consider Sabine a member of the IFCC and Thog not a side as he has no interest in the gates.


The Order and the Saphire guard are hardly the same either. While they are working with Hinjo, they are not absolutely aligned with them. They may have different conflicts at any point.


One problem I see is that this list condenses the good side into "Order and its allies". I think that the Sapphire Guard should at least get it's own side.

I called it "Order and its allies" because as of right now they are on the same side and have the same ultimate goals. In the future it is likely that it will change but until the Order and the Sapphire Guard actually come to blows over the gates I will consider them one side.


The gods have absolutely no activity as a side in this conflict. In fact, they aren't even that aligned with each other considering that the 12 animals kicked Thor out of the batte for Azure City.
Hel might be possible, if assume her plans to kill Thor involves the Snarl.


Also, so far the gods (except Hel and the Dark One) haven't done anything to protect or capture the gates, and even the aforementioned gods have been acting through mediums. As such, I wouldn't list them as a side.

I consider the gods as a side because they almost more than anyone have a stake in this as they are likely to be targeted if some one else gains control of the gates. Also because a lot of people on this forum are under the impression, me included, that the gods are lying about the gates in some important factor.


In a similar vein, while the Snarl is certainly a force to be reckoned with, until recently it wasn't even aware of the destruction of the gates, ans I don't think it wants to control the gates.

I consider the Snarl a side primarily because ultimately it is what this story is about as controlling the gates means controlling the Snarl so even if it has no interest in the gates themselves it basically has more stakes in them then anyone.


The two big problems with the 9 Sides thing is that, first of all, it's at least 9 sides. Which means there's who knows how many more, depending on which way you split things and such, and secondly that we don't know if that's 9 sides in all, 9 sides that the Roaches know about, 9 sides that Redcloak knows about, or some other perspective.

I choose 9 sides because it is really the only number we have right now and since this number came from the roaches it is probably the most reliable as of this moment. Also I don't mind there being more sides in this conflict that's why I started this thread, so I could see everyone's opinion on this.


Finally, it is "The Vector Legion", not "Team Tarquin"

Is this official or just a fan name for the group? And if it is official can someone give me a link to when The Giant said so.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Sorry, I forgot that it hasn't been mentioned on this site. Sorry if that remark came off as condescending. :smallredface:
Here (https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/status/435651746556149760) is the link you want.

[Agnostik]

What about The Holey Brotherhood? They were defeated, but the remnants of once proud organization might still remain, and their obviously justified goals might have attracted a whole bunch of new followers. Who knows what plans they might have in store!

[JoseB]

<about "Vector Legion">

Is this official or just a fan name for the group? And if it is official can someone give me a link to when The Giant said so.

The Giant said it in his twitter, in reply to a question by a reader. Let me see if I can find it...

EDIT: Agh, ninjaed!

[The Giant]

This thread has the exact same topic (and some of the same arguments by the same people) as this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332223), which predates it. Rather than merge them and cause confusion, I'm locking this one and ask that everyone take their discussion over to that one.