Fixing the bow

[albeaver89]

What would you do to make the bow more...appealing?

[shylocke]

The bow isn't appealing? What's wrong with it? Defective string?

[Nihilarian]

No more paying for mundane arrows and power attack for bows.

[shylocke]

There is the mighty bow for that. Don't need a feat. Also bows are free to reload unlike crossbows. Lvl 1-4 crossbow. Higher than that go bow for more attacks.

[Zombulian]

I don't know about fixing it... But something that ran through my head recently was - Why would anyone use a shortbow? Longbows and composite longbows are just every kind of better.

[Irk]

I don't know about fixing it... But something that ran through my head recently was - Why would anyone use a shortbow? Longbows and composite longbows are just every kind of better.

It costs 45 GP less to make masterwork.

With regards to the OP, bows are plenty appealing, IMO.

[SowZ]

I don't know about fixing it... But something that ran through my head recently was - Why would anyone use a shortbow? Longbows and composite longbows are just every kind of better.

Weapon proficiencies.

Anyway, adding Dex to damage makes it viable at most levels of practical play.

[The Cat Goddess]

Weapon proficiencies.

Anyway, adding Dex to damage makes it viable at most levels of practical play.

1) There exists a bow (mentioned earlier, the Mighty Bow) that adds Str to damage.

2) Dex to damage doesn't make sense and makes fighters MAD.

3) There's a Feat for that (which would, RAW, stack with the Mighty Bow's Str to damage).

[Defiled Cross]

A member of the party I'm currently DMing for just relinquished a nasty bow from one of the main enemies in our current campaign.

Ends are sharpened and reinforced with silver for an elegant, albeit brutal, weapon.

She seems to like it.

:smallbiggrin:

[Nihilarian]

1) There exists a bow (mentioned earlier, the Mighty Bow) that adds Str to damage.

2) Dex to damage doesn't make sense and makes fighters MAD.

3) There's a Feat for that (which would, RAW, stack with the Mighty Bow's Str to damage).He's talking about the shortbow. Fighters use longbows so they can get strength to damage, rogues use shortbows so they can get dexterity to damage.

[Abaddona]

Dex to damage and some sort of damage optimization, no AoO when firing, ability to flank enemies with it (well, maybe not neccesarilly to provide flank, but if you are shooting someone in the back you should except that it would be harder for him to defend), ability to make actual combat maneuvers with it (feat for ability to make them at -4 isnt something which causes excitment), ability to do cool stuff with it (well, we have many different kind of arrows which is a really good start), DM who would create from time to time encouters during which you actually need those 1000 feet sniping range; technically also ways to ignore things like wall of wind or solid fog which but when it comes to spells ubercharges etc. also have tough times.

[shylocke]

I don't know about fixing it... But something that ran through my head recently was - Why would anyone use a shortbow? Longbows and composite longbows are just every kind of better.

Long bows are a large weapon. Hard to use in corridors.

[Zombulian]

Long bows are a large weapon. Hard to use in corridors.

Do DM's actually implement rules like that? I'm actually curious.

[shylocke]

Yes mine does. Only one way to swing a great axe in a narrow hallway. Spears can be hard to turn around. God help you if someone is large.

[Taelas]

What would you do to make the bow more...appealing?

For focusing solely on the bow? Dex to damage, ranged PA, and the ability to provide and benefit from flanking at range. Oh, and the ability to use it as a melee weapon when required, without losing the option to change back to range at a moment's notice, and without the penalty for improvised weapons.

But the bow was not meant to be a primary weapon, anyway. This is part of why Fighters get so many feats: so they can have a melee weapon for regular battles and a ranged weapon for ranged battles.

Most see it as spreading yourself thin, though, so it was never really considered optimal. That and power creep put the nail in the coffin on this particular combination.

[OverdrivePrime]

As long as you're proficient, there's no reason not to use a composite longbow by the time you hit level 2.

I think what really detracts from bow use is the lack of options without tremendous feat investment. You can't even attempt to disarm someone or pin them down with a bow unless you have a feat, and in that case it only works within the shockingly short range of 30 feet.

Inexplicably, no matter how good a shot you are, you can't do precision damage from more than 30 feet away (60' if you've got the ranged skirmisher feat from one of the rare DMs who allows Dragon Magazine feats). Despite carrying a composite longbow. Any precision damage you do cuts out once you cross that magic line of 30 feet. Which happens to be the exact distance required for a fighter in light armor to walk up (or charge) and sunder your bow in one round. Having your effective range scale up with BAB would make more sense.

[Kane0]

When I ran my last game I allowed all ranged weapons to use Dex for attack and and add Dex to damage, except for thrown weapons which stayed as Str for attack and damage.

I also removed composite bows and allowed PF's Deadly Aim to compete with power attack.

The players loved it. And the PC who used a crossbow didnt feel shafted either.

[ddude987]

In standard DND 3.5e, most people regard bows as bad, but then again most people regard non-magic as bad. Assuming you allow all official sources, bows can actually be very effective. The most annoying thing about bows, I would say, is the feat tax. Point blank shot and precise shot are both effectively required feats. I have seen DMs roll them into 1 single feat though.

The dead eye feat, dragon magazine compendium, allows the wielder to get Dex to damage within 30', which is precision damage range, and the range most Dex based characters will be at.

[lytokk]

Why not try to make a TOB style school that focuses on bows? Whispering Wind or something like that? I've been toying with the idea, but I'm waiting til my copy of TOB comes in... that I ordered 3 weeks ago... Just 1 school, give it to all the ToB classes?

[Deaxsa]

What would you do to make the bow more...appeeling?

Color it yellow? ftfy

[ddude987]

There are a bunch of homebrewed disciplines for bows already. Falling Star is a popular name for an archery based one. here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6265.0) is a giant list of homebrewed disciplines.

[Talderas]

I don't know about fixing it... But something that ran through my head recently was - Why would anyone use a shortbow? Longbows and composite longbows are just every kind of better.

A shortbow is used when you have a strength score of nine or lower and you're a mounted archer.

A strength score of nine or lower prohibits you from using composite shortbows and composite longbows. Being mounted prohibits you from using a longbow.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

1) There exists a bow (mentioned earlier, the Mighty Bow) that adds Str to damage.

2) Dex to damage doesn't make sense and makes fighters MAD.

3) There's a Feat for that (which would, RAW, stack with the Mighty Bow's Str to damage).

Dex to attack/Str to Damage = MAD

Dex to attack and damage = SAD (and therefore Happy)

As to how to make bows more appealing - it depends on what we're comparing it to. Increasing the range at which precision damage can be applied, adding Dex to Damage, adding some sort of Power Attack analogue, and putting Precise Shot before Point Blank Shot are all solid, no matter what we're comparing it to options.

[Rubik]

Bows need to A.) do considerably more damage for single shots, B.) not be completely negated by anyone who wants to expend one feat or spell or spend money on a magic item, C.) be useful outside of charging range (ie, well beyond 30'; it's ranged combat, not just outside of melee ranged combat); honestly, it's ridiculous that you need to fight so close to your enemies to effectively be a ranged character, D.) have maneuvers available beyond "fire arrows" and "fire lots of arrows," and E.) not require 50 feats just for baseline functionality.

That last one is what really gets me, since the others can more or less be worked around. Combining all of the feats in Core into a single feat wouldn't be particularly powerful as it is (call it a Tactical feat with a constant attack/damage bonus). Adding in a few more feats to make bows better (rather than mitigating the terrible penalties just for using a bow in the first place) would be a huge step up. Bleh.

[SowZ]

1) There exists a bow (mentioned earlier, the Mighty Bow) that adds Str to damage.

2) Dex to damage doesn't make sense and makes fighters MAD.

3) There's a Feat for that (which would, RAW, stack with the Mighty Bow's Str to damage).

I'm not saying add Dex to damage for melee. Just ranged. Yes, the Mighty Bow or Composite Bows add Str to damage. But a melee fighter just needs Str. A ranged fighter needing both Str and Dex and a specific weapon?

Anyway, the fact that a feat exists for that or a bow doesn't solve the problem. If it is the factor that balances ranged combat against melee, it should be built into the system. You shouldn't be pigeonholed in weapon choice or have a feat tax.

[hemming]

If playing D&D, you could consider porting some of the PF archery feats into your game (I've just very recently decided to give this a try in mine).

Also, the magical reloading enhancement makes the x-bow much more appealing

[JusticeZero]

Mmhm. Just pushing PF's Clustered Shot and the other one (the power attack equivalent) onto a build makes your archers pretty effective and very good at drilling through resistant enemies.

[Blightedmarsh]

The epic fail of the bow is part and parcel of systematic problems with the 3.5 edition.

Problems with archery:

The ongoing cost of magical ammunition
The problems with enchantment and bows in general
The fact that magic negates everything....everything
Difficulties with ranged sneak attack
Feet intensive builds
..
..
The list goes on and on.



Potential fixes:

Make certain enchantments for the bow. +X for example.
Magical munitions do something special, acting like spell slots or alchemical items
Fix poisons
Fix mundane feats

[Big Fau]

Long bows are a large weapon. Hard to use in corridors.

A longbow should only impose a penalty if the wielder has to squeeze. A straight corridor shouldn't be an issue unless there's not enough vertical clearance (or horizontal, or diagonal) for the bow itself.

[Snowbluff]

Mmhm. Just pushing PF's Clustered Shot and the other one (the power attack equivalent) onto a build makes your archers pretty effective and very good at drilling through resistant enemies.

Yeah, go waste another feat. *walks off with his bucket of seeking splitting energy bows* :smalltongue:

On side note, bows are fine. People keep expecting to deal melee levels of damage with much more range, which is ridiculous. There are several builds that should service you, like Tippy's Monk/Factotum style.

[Rubik]

Mmhm. Just pushing PF's Clustered Shot and the other one (the power attack equivalent) onto a build makes your archers pretty effective and very good at drilling through resistant enemies.It's a cluster..... alright.

[JusticeZero]

Did PF give a perfect and amazing fix to archers... no. PF's general design philosophy seems to be to offer an experience that is overall very similar to 3.x. So they put in a quick and dirty fix, but it actually works fairly well. It takes care of a major problem with it.

[Nihilarian]

Make certain enchantments for the bow. +X for example.
Magical munitions do something special, acting like spell slots or alchemical items
... What? Are you saying bows can't have enchantments?

As for the other, there's some interesting magical ammunition around. I had a few arrows that spewed acid in an area that came in handy.

[Popertop]

There a few baseline things you could do.


Allow dex to apply to damage, treat this as precision damage.

You can now apply precision damage within one range increment of your weapon. So if you take far shot and use the distance property, you can apply precision damage within about 300'. That sniping rogue looks a whole lot more dangerous now.

If you hit someone with an arrow and they are already threatened in melee, they are considered flanked until they their turn.


Change Wind Wall to be a high deflection bonus, not just a flat out immunity.


Power Shot = Power Attack


Precise Shot + Point Blank Shot = You get +1 att and dam within one range increment, and you ignore the "fire into melee" penalty within this increment as well.


I don't really see what the issue is with enchanting ammunition, but I guess you could try to address that as well, in addition to giving more ranged only enchantments and more variety with special ammo types.

[Snowbluff]

Did PF give a perfect and amazing fix to archers... no. PF's general design philosophy seems to be to offer an experience that is overall very similar to 3.x. So they put in a quick and dirty fix, but it actually works fairly well. It takes care of a major problem with it.
Force arrows, sunbro.

... What? Are you saying bows can't have enchantments?

As for the other, there's some interesting magical ammunition around. I had a few arrows that spewed acid in an area that came in handy.

I don't really see what the issue is with enchanting ammunition, but I guess you could try to address that as well, in addition to giving more ranged only enchantments and more variety with special ammo types.

Yeah, arrows are awesome. Also, your bows pass on their enhancements to their ammumnition, so you can have a bow with a bunch of properties shooting a bunch of Swiftwing/Razorfeather arrows with their own properties? Luck arrows?


Allow dex to apply to damage, treat this as precision damage.
There's a feat for that.

You can now apply precision damage within one range increment of your weapon. So if you take far shot and use the distance property, you can apply precision damage within about 300'. That sniping rogue looks a whole lot more dangerous now.
Sniper's Shot spell.

Power Shot = Power Attack
Energy Bow.

Precise Shot + Point Blank Shot = You get +1 att and dam within one range increment, and you ignore the "fire into melee" penalty within this increment as well. There's a weapon property for that, but I actually like this idea.

[Firechanter]

Did PF give a perfect and amazing fix to archers... no.

Sure, it isn't perfect, but do note that between those archery boosts and all those melee nerfs that PF pushed through, archery is the most effective combat style in that system variant, damage-wise. Sure, a 2HPA still does more damage blow by blow, but it's so much easier to push out Full Attacks with a bow.

[Captnq]

Make me a bow that shoots swords that explode into smaller swords that explode. And are on fire.

[JusticeZero]

Sure, it isn't perfect, but do note that between those archery boosts and all those melee nerfs that PF pushed through, archery is the most effective combat style in that system variant, damage-wise..
Sounds pretty "fixed" to me, even if you aren't using the PF melee nerfs.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

I would remove all of the feat taxes, or more specifically the "firing into melee" penalty and the "soft cover for shooting through allies" penalties. It also needs a Power Attack equivalent, which Pathfinder has. 5e handles this pretty well, the current version of the playtest only has a single feat for archers and it's only necessary for archers who want a few more options.

[Hida Reju]

Make me a bow that shoots swords that explode into smaller swords that explode. And are on fire.

SWOOOOORDSPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Herald to the Crumpocalypse

[hemming]

Yeah, go waste another feat. *walks off with his bucket of seeking splitting energy bows*


Seeking (+1) splitting (+3) energy bow (+1) - 50,000 GP

Feat slot - available at first level

[Snowbluff]

Seeking (+1) splitting (+3) energy bow (+1) - 50,000 GP

Feat slot - available at first level
I think I should tell you that Clustered Shot requires BAB 6, and 2 other feats. Seeking removes the need for Improved Precise Shot on most builds, so that's another feat slot.

And that this is an energy bow. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) The property costs 14kgp, and gives a power shot ability, adjusts to the strength of the wielder, and bypasses DR.

[nyjastul69]

I think I should tell you that Clustered Shot requires BAB 6, and 2 other feats. Seeking removes the need for Improved Precise Shot on most builds, so that's another feat slot.

And that this is an energy bow. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) The property costs 14kgp, and gives a power shot ability, adjusts to the strength of the wielder, and bypasses DR.


Where is it stated that Hank's bow bypasses DR?

[Snowbluff]

Where is it stated that Hank's bow bypasses DR?

It's force damage. The force weapon property bypasses DR for the same reason. I'll dig it up for you, to make sure I'm right.

[nyjastul69]

It's force damage.

Where is it stated that force effects ignore DR?

[Snowbluff]

Where is it stated that force effects ignore DR?
Precedent in the Force weapons. Otherwise, use it for the bypassing incorporeal and the larger damage die.

[Talderas]

... What? Are you saying bows can't have enchantments?

As for the other, there's some interesting magical ammunition around. I had a few arrows that spewed acid in an area that came in handy.

The enhancement bonus on ammunition and bows do not stack. However to have any magic enhancements other than a +1 on a bow or ammunition the item must first be +1. This means that the cost of ammunition is pointlessly inflated.

A +1 longbow costs 2,375gp and 50 +1 arrows costs 2,302gp (4,677gp). It has the same effect as a +1 longbow and 50 mundane arrows (2,400gp).

The cost for magic weapons is not linear so that extra useless +1 can greatly and unnecessarily increase costs.

[hemming]

I think I should tell you that Clustered Shot requires BAB 6, and 2 other feats. Seeking removes the need for Improved Precise Shot on most builds, so that's another feat slot.

And that this is an energy bow. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) The property costs 14kgp, and gives a power shot ability, adjusts to the strength of the wielder, and bypasses DR.

Point taken - but if you are going for an archery build or trying to make a game where archery is more appealing, a character can still benefit from having the feats accessible much earlier in the game

A player can't access a weapon that powered up for much longer...

[GoatBoy]

From the SRD: "A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted."

That's why people use shortbows.

[Talderas]

From the SRD: "A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted."

That's why people use shortbows.

Also from the SRD

"You can use a composite longbow while mounted."

[Bronk]

Part of the problem with bows is that there aren't that many kinds out there, basically just long, short, composite long and short, a few kinds that are either exotic or special materials, then magic. If I had to fix the bow, I'd add more types, starting with compound bows as a more expensive martial option.

I'd probably treat it as a composite bow that could be held more easily during an extended readied action... maybe it would give a bonus to hit and/or damage in that case to represent aiming or whatnot.

I'd probably introduce mundane add-ons too, like fur to silence the string (easier to stay hiding?) or a pin to help in aiming, and probably different arrowheads.

[Snowbluff]

Point taken - but if you are going for an archery build or trying to make a game where archery is more appealing, a character can still benefit from having the feats accessible much earlier in the game

A player can't access a weapon that powered up for much longer...
I'm just saying you can avoid most of the feat tax associated with using bows through weapon crafting.

Yeah, it's on the pricey side, but it's worth every copper.

Part of the problem with bows is that there aren't that many kinds out there, basically just long, short, composite long and short, a few kinds that are either exotic or special materials, then magic. If I had to fix the bow, I'd add more types, starting with compound bows as a more expensive martial option.

I'd probably treat it as a composite bow that could be held more easily during an extended readied action... maybe it would give a bonus to hit and/or damage in that case to represent aiming or whatnot.

I'd probably introduce mundane add-ons too, like fur to silence the string (easier to stay hiding?) or a pin to help in aiming, and probably different arrowheads.
Bows already have easy access to some of the best mundane attachments.
Elvencraft: The bow is also a quarterstaff/club longbow/shortbow. Threaten nearby squares, and possibly hold another wand chamber.
Wand Chambers: Hunter's Mercy (guaranteed crit), sniper's shot (SA at any range), True Strike (+20 hit, ignore some miss chances).
Metal arrow types: Cold Iron, Silvered, Adamantine arrows to get around damage reduction without having to forge a whole new weapon.
Razorfeather Arrows: Mundane Keen/Adamant arrows.
Swiftfeather/something arrows: Better for distance shots.
Alchemical/Dragon'sbreath/Thunderstone Arrowheads: Special effects like igniting your target.
Poisons: Each arrow head has to be prepped ahead of time, but this mean you only have to draw an arrow to poison on an attack, rather than applying the poison in combat with a blade.
Blunt Arrows: Knock someone unconscious at a distance.

[Nihilarian]

The enhancement bonus on ammunition and bows do not stack. However to have any magic enhancements other than a +1 on a bow or ammunition the item must first be +1. This means that the cost of ammunition is pointlessly inflated.

A +1 longbow costs 2,375gp and 50 +1 arrows costs 2,302gp (4,677gp). It has the same effect as a +1 longbow and 50 mundane arrows (2,400gp).

The cost for magic weapons is not linear so that extra useless +1 can greatly and unnecessarily increase costs.Saying "it's too expensive" is different than saying "it doesn't exist"

It's worth remembering that you don't need to enchant your arrows at all. You can dump all your money into a bow just like a regular fighter can dump it all into his greataxe.

Even so, being able to carry around a few bane or dispelling arrows is nothing but a plus.

[Fitz10019]

an extended readied action
I've never heard of this. Houserule?

[Big Fau]

From the SRD: "A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted."

That's why people use shortbows.

Pickford's the only person who cares.

[hemming]

I'm just saying you can avoid most of the feat tax associated with using bows through weapon crafting.

Yeah you're right - a well enhanced bow gives good range options with no feats for sure



Yeah, it's on the pricey side, but it's worth every copper.


I didn't include the cost of the bucket

[jjcrpntr]

I'm playing a game with a Ranger that uses a composite longbow and stands 170ish feet from the mobs just picking things off. I enjoy it.

[Bronk]

...an extended readied action...
I've never heard of this. Houserule?

More like a badly worded explanation. I was just throwing that in there along with the possibility of new compound bows. I mean, the fix idea was that since compound bows are easier to keep drawn, the wielder would gain some advantage from that during a readied action... the fluff would be that while a composite bow wielder is straining his/her muscles to keep the bow trained on their target, a compound bow user might be easier to aim the more rounds that pass.

Looking back at it, I'm not sure how that really differs from holding a crossbow, but then again crossbows just use regular strength to pull in D&D anyway. You know, as an additional fix, I'd probably add the accuracy bonus for crossbows, then add a strength bonus to the types that that used a winch to draw.

If I was going to make a fix that is.

I do like elvencraft bows... they're like low price swordbows.

[TuggyNE]

More like a badly worded explanation. I was just throwing that in there along with the possibility of new compound bows. I mean, the fix idea was that since compound bows are easier to keep drawn, the wielder would gain some advantage from that during a readied action... the fluff would be that while a composite bow wielder is straining his/her muscles to keep the bow trained on their target, a compound bow user might be easier to aim the more rounds that pass.

I don't really know how you'd model compound bows in D&D, but in any case, they are definitely a much more modern invention: the first one was put together a mere 48 years ago, and the patent is only 45 years old.

[Amphetryon]

Yes mine does. Only one way to swing a great axe in a narrow hallway. Spears can be hard to turn around. God help you if someone is large.

What similar concessions toward verisimilitude does your DM make regarding Magic?

[Stoneback]

I was unaware that killing things from a great distance needed any more appeal.

I play in a low-magic, non-optimized game where the important thing is to build the numbers to match the character concept rather than squeeze all the damage out of very feat chain.

Our best combatant is a Ftr 9/Arcane Archer 3 who is a commanding presence with her bow.

Despite having a gimped class progression, she regularly outdamages our sneak attack rogue and glass cannon wizard. 86 hit points and a great AC too in case some one does charge her.

So, I guess it depends on your group's power level.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

I was unaware that killing things from a great distance needed any more appeal.

I play in a low-magic, non-optimized game where the important thing is to build the numbers to match the character concept rather than squeeze all the damage out of very feat chain.

Our best combatant is a Ftr 9/Arcane Archer 3 who is a commanding presence with her bow.

Despite having a gimped class progression, she regularly outdamages our sneak attack rogue and glass cannon wizard. 86 hit points and a great AC too in case some one does charge her.

So, I guess it depends on your group's power level.

How does an otherwise straight Fighter qualify for Arcane Archer?

The trouble is less in the group's power level, and more in the greater difficulty at making Archery competitive. It's certainly possible, but it requires considerably more effort and resources.

[Urpriest]

I don't really understand the point of this thread. Bows are great. They're the single-best archery weapon by an enormous, ridiculous margin.

Granted, archery sucks in D&D 3.5. But that implies that you should fix archery, not bows.

[Stoneback]

How does an otherwise straight Fighter qualify for Arcane Archer?

The trouble is less in the group's power level, and more in the greater difficulty at making Archery competitive. It's certainly possible, but it requires considerably more effort and resources.

Oops. Fighter 8 Wizard 1 Archer 3. House rule to make AA viable: They get full caster progression. So, 4 levels of Wizard caster progression.


We are absolutely not min-maxers. The other players at the table play characters straight out of Core (I don't) and we are a long way from optimized.

I don't think this is a good or a bad thing.

[Yogibear41]

I don't know about fixing it... But something that ran through my head recently was - Why would anyone use a shortbow? Longbows and composite longbows are just every kind of better.


You can't use a longbow while mounted. Additionally if you want to play a more realistic game with non-raw rules there are certain situations where a longbow is just to big to use, thus a shortbow comes in handy.


Where is it stated that force effects ignore DR?


The bow shoots "pure magical force" aka it shoots magic missiles :smallsmile:

[Kalaska'Agathas]

You can't use a longbow while mounted. Additionally if you want to play a more realistic game with non-raw rules there are certain situations where a longbow is just to big to use, thus a shortbow comes in handy.

You can, however, use a composite longbow while mounted. As has been pointed out already in this thread, in fact.

[Yogibear41]

You mean a composite shortbow, it makes no sense that you could use a composite longbow when you couldn't use a normal longbow.

[nyjastul69]

You can't use a longbow while mounted. Additionally if you want to play a more realistic game with non-raw rules there are certain situations where a longbow is just to big to use, thus a shortbow comes in handy.




The bow shoots "pure magical force" aka it shoots magic missiles :smallsmile:


Magic Missile doesn't bypass DR due to being a force effect, it bypasses DR due to being a spell. Hank's bow isn't a spell so DR should apply by RAW. Although, I think RAI is that it should bypass DR.

[TuggyNE]

You mean a composite shortbow, it makes no sense that you could use a composite longbow when you couldn't use a normal longbow.

I too think it's a typo, but it's technically what the text says. *shrug*

[Nihilarian]

Sorry to break it to you bub. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite)

What was that PrC? Bowman Charger? I think that class is the only class that gives bonuses specifically to the shortbow, not the longbow.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

You mean a composite shortbow, it makes no sense that you could use a composite longbow when you couldn't use a normal longbow.

Indeed I do not. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite)



You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a composite longbow while mounted. All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can’t effectively use it, so you take a -2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost.

For purposes of weapon proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.

[The Insaniac]

Magic Missile doesn't bypass DR due to being a force effect, it bypasses DR due to being a spell. Hank's bow isn't a spell so DR should apply by RAW.

From the MIC page 35:


A projectile weapon with the force property turns ammunition shot from it into a force attack. These force projectiles automatically overcome damage reduction.

[Nihilarian]

From the MIC page 35:Hank's Energy Bow is a different weapon.

[The Insaniac]

Ah, my misunderstanding. I would still, however, rule that it bypasses DR by virtue of functioning similarly to the force enchantment.

[nyjastul69]

From the MIC page 35:

Thank you. I don't own the MIC.

[Nihilarian]

Ah, my misunderstanding. I would still, however, rule that it bypasses DR by virtue of functioning similarly to the force enchantment.My DM and I had a discussion about that which ended with me adding 10,000 gp to the base price in return for the ability to pierce DR. I was a crafter with some very helpful crafting houserules, so it was still more than worth it, I thought.

Then the game ended before it was finished. Ah well.

[Aliek]

So from what I can understand in this topic:

Being an archer no D&D is less about spending feats, and more about spending gold?

Most of the goods an archer have come from magic items alone, so is there any feat which grants a significant advantage for specialized archers? I think the usual fighting feats of travel and knowledge devotion, for one, but anything specific to archers?

Manyshot perhaps?