[PF] Z is for BBEG!

[Spore]

Greetings playground,

I want to start DMing soon and I would like some input on a BBEG for my oncoming first campagin. The heroes will start out on an Spanish/Iberian metropolis with a huge harbor. He should have a certain Zorro villain vibe while also being a manipulative trade prince. One who openly opposes the heroes while not providing evidence to let them accuse him for his criminal enterprises.

His main goal should be to gain enough influence to indirectly rule the royalty and all the sea trades through lots of money. I have a bit of trouble of thinking about the crunch behind the fluff. Part of me wants him to be mundane, part of me thinks that a mundane character doesn't stand a chance (when I deck him out to be the final encounter on 12-14). The party doesn't stand yet.

Part of me thinks mundane is the PERFECT solution - because he will be basically a skilled sword fighter with huge amounts of disposables and magical items. I am basically thinking about throwing down reasonable items in every slot and him just being some rogue/fighter/ranger/duelist mix. Any ideas? Balanced 3rd party also okay. He's basically like Batman. His super power is money (and planning).

Ideas for his lieutenants are also welcome. I will try to incorporate many classes and cultures. His divination wizard will be there, but I could also imagine a Samurai, an Luchador (because every serious campaign needs some fun), maybe a Vampire Lord, ranging from 1-14 every idea is welcome. If he hires a Wererat pack to get rid of bodies, so be it. :)

[NightbringerGGZ]

So my first thought is to make sure he has plenty of backup in the final fight. A mundane BBEG is perfectly fine, but a rich Trade Prince would have a hired Mage or two around right? Maybe a tough and exotic body guard or two. Rather than design just a single BBEG, desing a Big Bad End Party!

Now as for crunch, are you open to a Gestalt boss? That's one of the best ways to have a humanoid boss who's still somewhat tougher than a single party member. Another question, how well does your party optimize? If they go for low-OP then you'll have many more options to choose from.

Have you looked at the Noble Scion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/noble-scion) PRC? It's pretty terrible on its own but it gives you rules for quite a bit of the fluff you want to focus on. Also a Cohort of the same level of you by level 15 (and only one level lower prior to that) isn't a bad class feature. It's effectively 2 characters for the price of one. The PRC would be tough to run with as a player character, but could work perfectly for your goals.

[Sayt]

It sounds to me like you want a swashbuckler, which is basically Zorro personified, it's not officially out until august, but the playtest beta (http://paizo.com/products/btpy92zi?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Advanced-Class-Guide-Playtest) is still available.

And you don't necessarily need spellcasting to be a BBEG. I mean, it helps one hell of a lot, but it isn't neccesary.

Reasons I'm suggesting the swashbuckler? Opportunistic parry and riposte means that he doesn't just die to chargers, and the charisma synergy means that he's capable of making friends with, say, a morally ambiguous cleric, a wizard of sorcerer, and someone eight foot tall with a nine foot long sword to stand next to the door.

[Spore]

My group does mid optimization. They build quite stream lined and with smart feat and race choices in mind but often lack the communication to build a working party. They love their melees although one of the four loves utility characters and one likes their characters to be Wizard or Cleric (however he told me he wants to be a manipulative LN or LE character which cuts healing and support a bit short, he sounds like the guy to play a fear focussed build or something).

They usually know one trick quite well and I will allow certain RAW-impossible feats to be accomplished. Which pushes them to high T4/low T3 territory (with hopefully one T1 caster as backup).

If I were to build a Big Bad Evil Party, I would make the main man a Swashbuckler along with his Divination Wizard and Alchemist (I dislike a divine character bound to a higher ideal to help this selfish prick). If I were to mirror the possible party, I could add the captain of the bodyguards. Area would be something brutish and sluggish. Maybe not a humanoid but his house pet, a heavily templated Tiger. Something like Advanced Primitive (more damage) Terror (fear aura) Dire Tiger. My DM once told me animals as encounters are boring. Haha.

[Sayt]

Well, Abberations, Undead and Outsiders tend to have a bunch of SLAs they can toss around as well as being roughly as good in melee, with outsiders beeing better, and monstrous humanoids/magical beasts getting a few abilities as well.

So I kinda understand where your DM is coming from, but I don't think it's a be all and end all rule that animal encounters are boring.

[avr]

If he's the behind the scenes type, a charisma-based caster might fit too. Rakshasa-blooded sorcerer perhaps. For sneaking backstabbing bastards the rogue class (or it's ninja derivative) fit. The swashbuckler is for a BBEG who can beat a mundane PC one-on-one but who loses to multiples or to casters.

[Spore]

If he's the behind the scenes type, a charisma-based caster might fit too. Rakshasa-blooded sorcerer perhaps. .

I thought off that but ultimately tossed the idea because I wanted that classical revelation:

"That guy is manipulating others and is no slouch himself."

twist instead of a rather helpless caster whose only power is minions. That aside this could be a good plot hook for a main quest with an allied sorcerer trying to doublecross him (or the party?).

[NightbringerGGZ]

I thought off that but ultimately tossed the idea because I wanted that classical revelation:

"That guy is manipulating others and is no slouch himself."

twist instead of a rather helpless caster whose only power is minions. That aside this could be a good plot hook for a main quest with an allied sorcerer trying to doublecross him (or the party?).

How about either a bard or a witch then? I like the bard idea better, but both can contribute in combat and both can use class features to be highly manipulative. Remember, the bard doesn't have to use instruments. You can get a lot done with Oratory skills =)

[The Oni]

You mentioned Luchador?

There's kind of a one-off build that someone did using a Scarred Witch-Doctor archetype Witch - they wear masks and cast from CON, so if they're statted right they can be really wicked front-line grapplers. Downside is he's gotta be an Orc, but that's alright (he's wearing a mask, so biggest obstacle negated, haha).

I've tried the build myself (but didn't invent it) and it was pretty badass. Pick the right patron and spells and stuff and it'll be very much in line with (supernaturally-empowered) Mexican wrestling.

[Spore]

You can get a lot done with Oratory skills =)

Nice idea. I as a writer lack the talent to improv or even write awesome speeches that translate into a high oratory skill. I could do the old "The empire will be stronger and better for everyone under my reign" routine.

@ Witch Doctor

How so? I imagine him being a terrible grapple because of BAB 1/2. Beast Shaping into a huge bipedal animal however....

[Spore]

Update: My group is tending towards shady to evil behaviour. Said evil guy MAY have just become a quest npc and I MAY have to stat out some good aligned enemies. Mercenaries, evil preachers/alchemists and an oracle of unknown preposition are half confirmed.

[Spore]

Sorry for the triple post but I wanted to ask you if you think a Demagogue/"Dashing Swordsman" would provide a decent villain. The demagogue will not be used literally but a bit more subtly. Influencing the council, starting riots with the dock workers. Also as I highly dislike singing on bards. Singing in P&P done wrong makes Bards almost always comic relief, some times deliberate - see Elan - some times not. Focus on Bluff, Intimidate and Perform (Oratory).

I still want him to be a good swordsman and I will WANT to talk our party into duels with him when they face him. As for his power (because this is a very weak character for combat) I will likely create him as a demagogue 6 (for incite crowd)/anything.

I need suggestions onto which class would go well with his stat array and goal. His stats aren't determined yet but it will be something like:

Cha > Dex > Con (BBEG fights needs to last a little while) > Rest.

I am really tending towards a few levels of Urban Barbarian just because it would be a great satisfaction for the group to have him loose his cool after months of manipulating every move and discrediting them in the eyes of the city.