Are there any pin-less Harpers out there?

[Vintrastorm]

As the title says.

Would there be harpers who doesn't wear any (magical) harper pins? I'm thinking about trying to trick one of my players who is a harper that an evil NPC is also a harper. I'd give this NPC a silver brooch (or nothing if they must be magical) and see if the PC can be tricked.

/ Jonis

[Kalaska'Agathas]

What's a Harper?

[comicshorse]

I would have thought a Harper on a undercover mission would leave his pin behind

[12owlbears]

sure but they have to take their harps with them

[Dawgmoah]

The FR book, City of Splendor: Waterdeep doesn't mention anything like that about pins. Champions of Valor has the Harper Protege and does not mention pins. On page 66 of the same book you can find "Harper Tokens" and they are given to "friends and allies, and sometimes they reward people who have done them a service." The fake Harper could find/steal on of those perhaps. They would have to know enough about the Harpers in order to act like one.

[herrhauptmann]

What's a Harper?

Meddling organization of do-gooders in faerun.
Can be counted on for a deus ex machina in any Ed Greenwood novel.
Always seem to carry a silver harp pin, just like the Zhentarim always carry a black coin with a yellow Z on it.
Always seem to flash the pin at the drop of a hat, even if operating under cover.

As far as I know, most of the pins aren't anything more than a pin. No magic whatsoever. Therefore, there's no problem with a bad guy having one made and carrying it around.
Hell, his could be an authentic one, from his days as a harper. Before he turned evil but forgot to turn in his member card on his way out the door.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Meddling organization of do-gooders in faerun.
Can be counted on for a deus ex machina in any Ed Greenwood novel.
Always seem to carry a silver harp pin, just like the Zhentarim always carry a black coin with a yellow Z on it.
Always seem to flash the pin at the drop of a hat, even if operating under cover.

As far as I know, most of the pins aren't anything more than a pin. No magic whatsoever. Therefore, there's no problem with a bad guy having one made and carrying it around.
Hell, his could be an authentic one, from his days as a harper. Before he turned evil but forgot to turn in his member card on his way out the door.

Or maybe he killed a Harper, and took it from him. He could hang it on his belt next to the lightsaber.

[Gabe the Bard]

You could have the PC roll a knowledge local or bardic knowledge check that tells them the harpers in this locality usually carry a discrete silver pin of a particular design that is only recognized by other harpers, which could simply be the case in your campaign even if there's nothing supporting it in the books. It would set up nicely for revealing the dead harper whose pin was stolen by your villain.

[Venger]

Or maybe he killed a Harper, and took it from him. He could hang it on his belt next to the lightsaber.

That's impossible! No one can kill a Harper!

[Phelix-Mu]

That's impossible! No one can kill a Harper!

Not even with a lightsaber!:smalltongue:

Man, now I really wish D&D had lightsabers.:smallfrown:

[Kalaska'Agathas]

That's impossible! No one can kill a Harper!

Unless the Harpers kidnap Liam Neeson's daughter. Then, well, as he put it:



I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money [(a Jedi cares not for such things)]. But what I do have [is a lightsaber and] a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career [as a Jedi]. Skills [like telekinesis, prescience, blaster deflection, laser-sword fighting, and the ever-popular Jedi Mind Trick] that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you [with the Force], and I will kill you.

[Alleran]

Not all Harpers have or use the pins. Deep-cover ones don't (they managed to get one guy up to something like fifth or sixth in charge of Zhentil Keep, and he never carried a pin for obvious reasons), and sometimes they just stash them somewhere so they don't have to carry it on their person (of course, if they think that flashing it will get them further than they would otherwise, then they'll take it with them). Often you can be a member for years without getting one, since it usually requires going to their Super Secret Hidden Base (TM) and passing a test/interview/whatever. Or a Master Harper will just hand one out to somebody who they think is worthy, because they can be very disorganised at times.

Or you might not be one of their "secret agent" members, and instead be an adventurer who happens to be a Harper as well. The 2E book on the Harpers described an "average" adventurer-Harper, and IIRC no stealth was needed. In which case, they'd carry the pin around with them because why should they hide it?


The FR book, City of Splendor: Waterdeep doesn't mention anything like that about pins.
2E's Code of the Harpers has as one of the standard Harper principles:

"Harpers who have Harper pins carry them unless going into situations where the discovery of their identity would endanger their mission. Harpers wear their pins openly only as a recognition-signal to other Harpers, or at Harper gatherings."

It also notes:

"Harpers can be of just about any class and profession. Although they can sometimes rely on the direct aid of other Harpers or loans or gifts of healing spells and magical items, many Harpers begin their careers armed with their wits alone. A Harper who survives the dangers and tests of the Harper life (double agents secretly serving foes of the Harpers are soon weeded out) and serves capably, is eventually named a true Harper and given his own Harper pin."

As above, then. Some Harpers have them, some don't, and the ones that do are usually the experienced ones. The ones that do carry them unless they're going into a situation where it would not be a good idea to be caught with one.

[Vanitas]

Man, now I really wish D&D had lightsabers.:smallfrown:

Wand of flaming blade?

[Gavinfoxx]

Uh, it does! What do you think a Feycraft Adamantine +1 Hideaway Shocking Flaming Parrying Defending Longsword is?

[Vanitas]

Uh, it does! What do you think a Feycraft Adamantine +1 Hideaway Shocking Flaming Parrying Defending Longsword is?

An elegant weapon for a more civilized age, of course.

Actually, I don't like that option for a lightsaber (no touch attacks), but I couldn't resist the joke

[Fax Celestis]

An elegant weapon for a more civilized age, of course.

Actually, I don't like that option for a lightsaber (no touch attacks), but I couldn't resist the joke

Drop shocking and flaming for brilliant energy.

[Andezzar]

Drop shocking and flaming for brilliant energy.Doesn't cut through inanimate matter. It only ignores armor bonuses.
Make the sword a wondrous item as well, with Wraithstrike at will.

[Vanitas]

Doesn't cut through inanimate matter. It only ignores armor bonuses.
Make the sword a wondrous item as well, with Wraithstrike at will.

Or just get a wand of flame blade.

[nedz]

Eldritch Glaive, with Hammer Blast if you want to trash objects — though this is a bit of a waste. It's hardly a blade of light though.

[Andezzar]

Or just get a wand of flame blade.The 50 charges make it not very durable for a lightsaber.

[Venger]

Not even with a lightsaber!:smalltongue:

Man, now I really wish D&D had lightsabers.:smallfrown:

what do you think shining blade of heironious is for?

[Phelix-Mu]

Alas, just like the lightsaber, our lightsaber discussion has seized center stage and held off the army of stormtroopers actual topic of the thread!

And yet, I don't feel that bad...:smalltongue: