anyone capable for resurrection?

[With a box]

1. Redclock (maybe ture resurrection, but I don't think giant allow that)
2. Durkon (High Priest of Hel)
anyone else in ootsverse?

[bertoltus]

Probably Hilgya. I mean, I hope so.

[RMS Oceanic]

Just to clarify, Giant doesn't Rule 0 True Res out of existence, he just strives to keep it out of the hands of the protagonists. A subtle but distinct difference.

[Socksy]

Well, all the gods, to start with, I reckon.

Xykon could do it if he learnt Wish at any point.
Leeky could do Reincarnation.
Laurin could probably work a Reality Revision, although she seems more focused on blasting and Nomad-y stuff.
Miron could do it if he learnt Wish at any point.

[Vinyadan]

Just to clarify, Giant doesn't Rule 0 True Res out of existence, he just strives to keep it out of the hands of the protagonists. A subtle but distinct difference.

Right. The fact that Dorukan had had clerics attempting to resurrect Lirian for years, and they never could because the soul had been bound, means that True Resurrection can be cast (and that, somewhere, there are really powerful clerics).

[Trillium]

There were some clerics that tried to Resurrect Roy's little brother (I just realized what Resurrection meant about the extent of damage little boy has taken from that experiment).

Also, Cleric of Loki was pretty high level, and yet he wasn't the most powerful cleric in his temple, so there may be more resurrecters in Greysky city (not that Order will go there).

[Quild]

Right. The fact that Dorukan had had clerics attempting to resurrect Lirian for years, and they never could because the soul had been bound, means that True Resurrection can be cast (and that, somewhere, there are really powerful clerics).

You can try to resurrect someone for years using only the "Resurrection"spell.

I don't remember Durkon destroying Lirian's body.

[Kish]

You can try to resurrect someone for years using only the "Resurrection"spell.

...if you have any part of the body which was part of the victim's body at death. Which Dorukan did not.


I don't remember Durkon destroying Lirian's body.
I'll do you one better; I don't remember Durkon ever meeting Lirian.

(Typoes confusing Durkon and Dorukan are at least comprehensible. Ones confusing Durkon and Xykon, as this appears to be, are much less so. And on a relatively non-snarky note, if you don't remember Xykon doing something to Lirian's body that directly relates to the question under discussion, you really, really need to reread the portions of Start of Darkness being discussed before you engage in debate over what's in them.)

[Quild]

...if you have any part of the body which was part of the victim's body at death. Which Dorukan did not.

I'll do you one better; I don't remember Durkon ever meeting Lirian.

(Typoes confusing Durkon and Dorukan are at least comprehensible. Ones confusing Durkon and Xykon, as this appears to be, are much less so. And on a relatively non-snarky note, if you don't remember Xykon doing something to Lirian's body that directly relates to the question under discussion, you really, really need to reread the portions of Start of Darkness being discussed before you engage in debate over what's in them.)

Yeah, made a double confusion Xykon/Dorukan and Dorukan/Durkon. Second one being about close names, first one being about me being really tired these days. For some reasons, I had a cleric in mind while speaking about Resurrection.

While you speak about it in your "non-snarky note" (*cough*) I just remembered what Xykon made to Lirian's body. Didn't destroyed it as far as we know, though.

I find it easier to believe that Dorukan&co were able to locate Lirian's body and to get it back than to cast true resurrection.

[Kish]

Feel free to ignore my advice, of course.

(To be explicit, it is clear from your post that you have not reread the scenes in question which do contain an extremely unambiguous answer to "did Dorukan retrieve Lirian's body sometime before fighting Xykon and dying," and appear inclined to continue to argue about what's in them without doing so; oh well.)

Addressing the thread question:

The priest of Loki had a scroll of Resurrection which he was willing to use for pay; thus, it seems that Resurrection is not ultra-rare in this universe. Though True Resurrection might be (and, unless Haley is just very uninformed, probably is).

[Quild]

Feel free to ignore my advice, of course.

(To be explicit, it is clear from your post that you have not reread the scenes in question which do contain an extremely unambiguous answer to "did Dorukan retrieve Lirian's body sometime before fighting Xykon and dying," and appear inclined to continue to argue about what's in them without doing so; oh well.)

Well, I'm unfortunately not home yet and I cant.

You're being... Can't remember the word, that was a nasty one though. Now that you make me think about it, I seem to remember that (SoD spoiler) :
Xykon taunts Dorukan and get him to leave his dungeon by showing Lirian as a zombie

{SCRUBBED}

[NerdyKris]

Kish's point is that

Dorukan was using resurrection, as he did not have access to the body at any time until he faced Xykon and died. He also did not see any reason to retrieve the body when it was placed in front of him until Xykon threatened to torture Lirian's soul.

[Orc Warrior]

I'm not to knowledgeable about D&D rules; do Paladins have a Resurrection spell?

[Kish]

I'm not to knowledgeable about D&D rules; do Paladins have a Resurrection spell?
No. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm)

Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection are the exclusive domain of clerics. Wizards and sorcerers can duplicate their effects with Wishes and Limited Wishes; druids, bards, rangers, and paladins have no practical* personal resurrection abilities.

*Epic spells are defined as "impractical" here. Especially for paladins.

[hamishspence]

Nope - Resurrection is much more powerful than the most powerful spells a paladin can cast.

EDIT: Swordsaged.

[Orc Warrior]

Okay, thanks!

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm not to knowledgeable about D&D rules; do Paladins have a Resurrection spell?

No. There are four standard return-to-life spells. Three Cleric, one Druid.

Raise Dead - Cast within a week or so. You must have the body more or less intact. Causes a loss of one level. Certain forms of killing mean you can't use this, and neither can the undead. Cannot revive outsiders or elementals.
Resurrection - Can be cast decades after the fact. As long as you have a tiny piece of the body like a fragment of bone, you can Revive them. Can overcome special death attacks that Raise Dead can't. Can revive undead beings as their living selves once the undead is destroyed. Causes level loss. Cannot revive outsiders or elementals.
True Resurrection - As Resurrection, but you don't even need the body, just enough information to identify the correct soul. Does not cause level loss. Can revive outsiders or elementals.

Reincarnate - The Druid Version. Can be cast a few months after death. Acts like Raise Dead, only it creates a brand new body, possibly of a different species, for the soul to return to.

No resurrection magic can revive someone who has died of old age.

[jidasfire]

There's always Uncle Myrtok, assuming he's still alive. He might just be flavor from Eugene's past, but he's come up in the text often enough that it would at least not be absurd if he appeared in the story.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

One variable each DM has to think about is how common different levels are. In a given setting is a 12th level character the best of his class in the world or a person of no great significance.

I've never got the sense that the Giant has nailed down how rare a level X cleric is in OotS-verse. Minor Bishop? Head of the Religion? Legend never again to be seen in our time?

In part, it hasn't really come up. In part it is useful to not nail yourself down if you might need a level X character in future, but we have some hints.

Azure city was ruled by a 14th level character. The high and mighty among the Sapphire guard were around level 12. Using that as a scale, I wouldn't be confident of finding a level 13+ Cleric (for resurrection) even in a big city.

I expect Redcloak is either the highest level or one of the highest level clerics of the Dark One. Presumably if there were someone more powerful, the Dark One would have tapped *him* for the plan. So maybe other heads of religions are similar level. High Priest of Thor is a good bet for level 13+. As a major series antagonist, Redcloak could easily be a high level outlier though.

Tarquin's crew are all around the right level and they manage to control a pretty huge area made up of several kingdoms. Using that as a guide, I'd guess that a level 13+ cleric is going to be at least as rare as one or two per kingdom and maybe as rare as one or two per continent.

All of this is conjecture based on too little direct evidence, but my guess would be that a cleric capable of casting resurrection is a very big deal in his church and there might only be a handful of them world wide.

The other complicating factor is *finding* one of the clerics who can do it. D&D settings tend to assume that level and political power go hand in hand, but there is no reason the High Priest of Thor needs to be the highest level cleric of Thor. Maybe the highest level cleric is a very devout monk out meditating in the back beyond. Getting to be High Priest may be a question of having more political acumen than the other candidates rather than more casting power. A low level cleric multiclassed into aristocrat might have better skills in Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff, and related skills than a pure cleric. The head of a religion might be as much an administrator and bureaucrat than anything else, someone has to negotiate with governments where the church wants to operate, find money to keep the organization operating, settle internal political disputes, and so on. The ability to cast Fire Storm isn't much help if the problem is funding a new Cathedral. Finding the highest level cleric of Thor might not be as easy as showing up in the Dwarven equivalent of the Vatican and asking to see the man in charge.

[commander panda]

those lizardman clerics of tiamat who brought back the oracle.

EDIT: wait, that was raise dead. nevermind.

[DaveMcW]

those lizardman clerics of tiamat who brought back the oracle.

EDIT: wait, that was raise dead. nevermind.

They do have resurrection. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html)

[ObadiahtheSlim]

those lizardman clerics of tiamat who brought back the oracle.

EDIT: wait, that was raise dead. nevermind.

It was raise dead, but they were going to need a ressurection for the next death. Something about getting minced to pieces.

[The Recreator]

The High Priest of the Twelve Gods was able to cast Resurrection (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html) (or at least Raise Dead). I wouldn't be surprised if the High Priest of Thor or any of the other Northern Gods is of a similar level, though it's just as possible that with the passing of the previous High Priest that the newcomer doesn't have as much XP yet.

And since the conversation has swung this way, it's also worth noting that resurrection magic of any sort doesn't work if the soul is unavailable - unwilling to return (Lord Shojo), trapped via Soul Bind (the spell that the Ancient Black Dragon wanted to use on V's kids), and so on. Also, if someone has made a construct or undead out of the body, you need to either destroy the creature or use True Resurrection.

Come to think of it, we learned quite a bit about resurrection magic and how it applies to the OotS world in Book 4, didn't we? :smalltongue:

I think the only thing left uncovered is that you only need Resurrection if the original body is missing parts or if the death occurred more than a week or so ago. Raise Dead may be sufficient in the case of Durkon.

[Kish]

I think the only thing left uncovered is that you only need Resurrection if the original body is missing parts or if the death occurred more than a week or so ago.
Or if the body was turned into an undead creature at any point between death and resurrection; check the spell descriptions for Raise Dead and Resurrection.

[Mike Havran]

Azure city was ruled by a 14th level character. The high and mighty among the Sapphire guard were around level 12. Using that as a scale, I wouldn't be confident of finding a level 13+ Cleric (for resurrection) even in a big city.

The Azure City High Priest did cast (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html)Resurrection on Shojo, implying he was at least 13th level Cleric

[The Recreator]

Or if the body was turned into an undead creature at any point between death and resurrection; check the spell descriptions for Raise Dead and Resurrection.

Thanks for the assist. The d20 SRD was down when I was writing that post. :smallannoyed:


The Azure City High Priest did cast (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html)Resurrection on Shojo, implying he was at least 13th level Cleric

Did Miko do enough damage to Shojo that he required a Resurrection spell? I'm a bit unclear on how powerful Raise Dead is.

[zimmerwald1915]

Did Miko do enough damage to Shojo that he required a Resurrection spell? I'm a bit unclear on how powerful Raise Dead is.
The standard seems to be that resurrection is required in the case of mutilation. There's not really a bright line, but true bisection - like what killed Miko herself - would have prevented raise dead from working on her if anybody had ever tried casting it. Given that, Shojo's almost-bisection is probably close enough to justify raise dead not working.

[orrion]

Did Miko do enough damage to Shojo that he required a Resurrection spell? I'm a bit unclear on how powerful Raise Dead is.

Raise Dead states "the body must be whole." It's arguable that a nearly bisected Shojo wouldn't count as whole.

[NerdyKris]

We do know that cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html) was a decent level, though. He stood up to Recloak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html) later in the battle for Azure City.

[konradknox]

The lizard clerics are the best choice. Roy remembers them, and knows where the Oracle is. Swing by the Sunken Valley and ask the Oracle to rez Durkon.

The problem is, when Oracle doesn't want to be found, he doesn't get found.
"Oracle is out"

Tiamat is probably keeping him out of the game, with the Gate stakes so high. He might have even been shut down permanently.

When Xykon went to see him, he wasn't there.

[Keltest]

The lizard clerics are the best choice. Roy remembers them, and knows where the Oracle is. Swing by the Sunken Valley and ask the Oracle to rez Durkon.

The problem is, when Oracle doesn't want to be found, he doesn't get found.
"Oracle is out"

Tiamat is probably keeping him out of the game, with the Gate stakes so high. He might have even been shut down permanently.

When Xykon went to see him, he wasn't there.

the oracle cant resurrect, remember? he isn't actually a cleric.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

the oracle cant resurrect, remember? he isn't actually a cleric.

Yes, but the lizard clerics who raised him can cast Resurrection. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html)

[orrion]

Yes, but the lizard clerics who raised him can cast Resurrection. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html)

And if the Oracle wasn't willing to do that for Roy, what makes you think he'd do that for Durkon?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I didn't say that they would want to do so, just that they could.

[konradknox]

Well as far as want to help and will he help is simply a matter of "hey, Mister Oracle. We happen to be on a quest of such importance that you and your valley will cease to exist if we fail, so why don't you help us the best you can!"

But I feel that's precisely why Rich removed the Oracle from the scene. Too powerful, and would resolve the closing arc too conveniently by providing all the foresight answers.

To be honest, i think the Oracle got croaked by Tiamat.

[ti'esar]

I think it's more likely he just ran for the hills when he saw that Xykon wanted to use him as a source of information.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/redxiv/oracle.gif: Dude is frickin' scary.

[MrMercury]

I expect Redcloak is either the highest level or one of the highest level clerics of the Dark One. Presumably if there were someone more powerful, the Dark One would have tapped *him* for the plan. So maybe other heads of religions are similar level. High Priest of Thor is a good bet for level 13+. As a major series antagonist, Redcloak could easily be a high level outlier though.



The Dark One gave redclock the crimson mantle when he was low leveled

[Vinyadan]

And if the Oracle wasn't willing to do that for Roy, what makes you think he'd do that for Durkon?

Roy could pay the money and ask: How do I get the lizards who rezzed you last time to resurrect the now defunct Durkon Thundershield?

I don't think he could refuse an answer. After all, he tried to make Roy notice when he made the wrong question. Of course, the question would have to be well phrased.

[Socksy]

If the Order wants Durkon de-vamped, they're stuffed.
If the bad guys want him de-vamped, Wish/Reality Revision seem about right. I can't see any reason for an evil cleric with access to Death Ward wanting to de-vamp rather than rebuke him.

[Kish]

The Dark One gave redclock the crimson mantle when he was low leveled
The previous Bearer of the Crimson Mantle gave proto-Redcloak the Crimson Mantle when he was low-leveled, choosing him not out of all the goblinoid clerics in the world, but out of all of the goblinoid clerics who were within arm's reach--all one of them.

That said, I would say Redcloak is almost certainly the highest level goblinoid cleric in the world, and one of the highest level clerics in the world, now.