Alternate methods of gaining XP other than combat

[RoboEmperor]

What are some alternate ways of gaining XP other than combat?

1. Can a wizard study in his home for a 100 years become high level?
2. Is party exp shared so you can have a leecher?
3. Can a powerful wizard turn a low level character into a 15 HD monster using polymorph any object and have it kill powerful monsters? I'm thinking like the PaO subject becomes immune to certain attacks that.
4. Can a wizard summon monsters and kill them for XP? So instead of negotiating after a planar binding, he just straight out kills it

I'm thinking in terms of some guy spends his entire life in an academy and starts adventuring waaaaay later, after he has massive training.

[Zweisteine]

For question 1, RAW says no. But commoners seem to gain xp farming, so it's up to the DM.

[Andezzar]

1. No. Encounters give XP, books (generally) don't qualify as encounters.
2. If the whole party overcomes the encounter the whole party gets XP. It is irrelevant whether one character killed more goblins than another.
3. No. Regular polymorph is limited by the target's HD. If you use PAO, the target would gain XP as the creature he was turned into, so (at least in theory) he would not gain XP any faster.
4. No. Summoned Monsters are under his control, that would not constitute an encounter. Called creatures on the other hand could be used in that fashion, but there is no benefit from creating encounters in that way besides knowing what to prepare for. Additionally the called creature is not obligated to interact with you in any way once it is free, so there might not even be an encounter.

As for ways to earn XP, not only combat is an encounter. Anything that poses a risk and offers a reward is an encounter: Traps, tailing someone, gathering information etc. all are encounters.

Contrary to the whole encounter mechanism the world is still supposed to be filled mostly with level 1 commoners, so how do they farm XP?

[Telonius]

1 - Possibly, but I'd say in only very particular situations. XP is gained for overcoming "encounters" with difficulties appropriate to the level. The rules don't specify the nature or CR of non-combat encounters; that's up to the individual DM. I'd be a bit skeptical about what sorts of problems the Wizard is solving from his armchair, but it's not completely impossible. (An Oneiromancer, for example, would completely make sense; somebody who summons fiends or minions specifically to do his bidding would be another possibility).

2 - Partially. In order to gain XP, the character has to be part of the encounter. Meaning, the character has to be at some risk or involved in some way. You can't just stick the level-2 character in a bag of holding and have them gain XP for defeating the Tarrasque.

But otherwise, yes, XP is divided among the characters taking part in the encounter. Lower-level characters do gain more XP from the same encounter than higher-level characters in the same group. The game is designed like that, so that people who lose levels (or start out at lower levels) can "catch up." You can find a good XP calculator here (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/), or use the table in the DMG.

3. Yes. Polymorph Any Object (unlike most of the Polymorph school) is not limited by the starting HD of the subject; the examples in the table show a shrew being changed into a manticore, or a pebble being changed into a human.

4. I suppose it would be possible, with a few caveats. Usually the CR of the creatures you can summon with a "Summon Monster" is quite a bit weaker than your own level. This gets worse as you level up. For example, Summon Monster 1, which you can cast at 1st level, gets you monsters around CR 1/2. But with Summon Monster 9, which you can only cast at level 17, you're summoning creatures around CR 11. There's also the issue of duration; normal monsters don't puff out of existence after a few rounds, so it would probably be reasonable to reduce the CR.

Planar Binding would be a different situation. If a creature you bind does break free, it might attack you; that's a normal situation (even mentioned in the spell description) and handled by the rules as usual. But if you're just killing a trapped creature, that's going to be significantly less difficult than defeating it in open combat. There are no specific rules for it, but the DM would be justified in reducing the CR (and XP reward) for it. Note that there is an HD limit for Planar Binding; you are limited in the sorts of things you can call. Also, doing this regularly would carry some risk of alerting more powerful planar beings. If a devil's minions keep disappearing, a bigger devil is eventually going to start investigating.




Contrary to the whole encounter mechanism the world is still supposed to be filled mostly with level 1 commoners, so how do they farm XP?

Surviving encounters with adventurers, mainly. :smallbiggrin:

[Andezzar]

1 - Possibly, but I'd say in only very particular situations. XP is gained for overcoming "encounters" with difficulties appropriate to the level. The rules don't specify the nature or CR of non-combat encounters; that's up to the individual DM. I'd be a bit skeptical about what sorts of problems the Wizard is solving from his armchair, but it's not completely impossible. (An Oneiromancer, for example, would completely make sense; somebody who summons fiends or minions specifically to do his bidding would be another possibility). Oneiromancy is magic through /in dreams right? So even without leaving his house the caster would actually have traditional encounters. I have to disagree on the summoner of fiends. Casting a spell is not an encounter and thus would not produce XP any more than casting create water.


4. I suppose it would be possible, with a few caveats. Usually the CR of the creatures you can summon with a "Summon Monster" is quite a bit weaker than your own level. This gets worse as you level up. For example, Summon Monster 1, which you can cast at 1st level, gets you monsters around CR 1/2. But with Summon Monster 9, which you can only cast at level 17, you're summoning creatures around CR 11. There's also the issue of duration; normal monsters don't puff out of existence after a few rounds, so it would probably be reasonable to reduce the CR. Summoned creatures never enter into encounter calculation. Just like any other spell that a creature could cast. A druid's CR does not go up just because he used SNA instead of some battlefield control or SoD spell, inversely the party does not gain less XP because the wizard cast SM instead of some other spell.


Surviving encounters with adventurers, mainly. :smallbiggrin:Well not only adventurers, other commoners and houscats are dangerous too. :smallwink: The problem is that the commoner would have many of such encounters over the course of a year, yet there are still mainly level 1 commoners.

[RoboEmperor]

Alright, I guess i'll go with the planar binding route. The academy trains its students by unleashing outsiders in a controlled setting where the student will not die if he fails. A few field trips couldn't hurt either.

In a lot of d&d games you receive exp for completing a quest, like solving a mystery or something, so I was wondering why can't you do that with a text book? Try to solve a mystery outlined in a textbook, and the instructor is the only one with the answer.

I guess there has to be risk to get XP.

[Andezzar]

Alright, I guess i'll go with the planar binding route. The academy trains its students by unleashing outsiders in a controlled setting where the student will not die if he fails.What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to justify stating at a higher level?

[Dawgmoah]

What are some alternate ways of gaining XP other than combat?

1. Can a wizard study in his home for a 100 years become high level?
2. Is party exp shared so you can have a leecher?
3. Can a powerful wizard turn a low level character into a 15 HD monster using polymorph any object and have it kill powerful monsters? I'm thinking like the PaO subject becomes immune to certain attacks that.
4. Can a wizard summon monsters and kill them for XP? So instead of negotiating after a planar binding, he just straight out kills it

I'm thinking in terms of some guy spends his entire life in an academy and starts adventuring waaaaay later, after he has massive training.

There is a 3rd party book on XP which stats up various things, like solving puzzles, checking and removing traps, negotiating (diplomancer) into CR level equivalents. Don't recall the name at the moment. I used it for a time but my players lean towards the hack n'slash side so my game has bent towards that in the past few years.

Why wouldn't a wizard not be able to kill something he summons? Do you just want to say that wizards from a certain academy of school come out at a higher level than 1st?

Back in the AD&D 1ed days I played in a game where the DM decided all elves went to school for a thousand years. I was playing a mere human fighter and was but 16.... The elf character was a 1st level wizard.... Don't know what they did in that school all of those centuries.

[RoboEmperor]

What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to justify stating at a higher level?

No, I am not. I will always start at level 1. I am however trying to create a prestigious university and I was wondering if I could make the students higher level than other wizard schools. Of course this university is going to have a lot of evil people but if all the students have to be level 1... its not gonna to be really exciting. Actually, they'll be level 0, since graduates are level 1.

That and I wanted some evil demented sorcerer growing his own general in seclusion, inside a tower, probably underground. Wanted something like a child put through insane torturous training and after 20 years, is now a remorseless killing machine.


Back in the AD&D 1ed days I played in a game where the DM decided all elves went to school for a thousand years. I was playing a mere human fighter and was but 16.... The elf character was a 1st level wizard.... Don't know what they did in that school all of those centuries.

Precisely!

[Kioras]

Traps.

The school has a small section of practice rooms, with a real danger, that has a reseting every ~15 minute magic trap that is a higher CL (5ish) summon monster 1/2/3 spell's.

The traps are considered bypassed when the monsters are defeating, opening the door on the other end, allowing them to exit towards healers.

There is a real risk for injury, and a slight risk of death if it is done in specific conditions.

A group of 4 wizards may go in at a time, fight a cr 1/2 monster, and get about 38xp each time. They do and should level in about 26 encounters

[Telonius]

Oneiromancy is magic through /in dreams right? So even without leaving his house the caster would actually have traditional encounters. I have to disagree on the summoner of fiends. Casting a spell is not an encounter and thus would not produce XP any more than casting create water.

I was thinking more along the lines of, "Okay, I don't like the fact that my landlord is raising my rent. I want to do something about it, but I don't want it traced back to me. So, I'll use a spell to get an Imp to convince him that it's in his interests to keep me as a tenant." It's not directly a combat encounter, but it's a problem that he solves with magic.


Summoned creatures never enter into encounter calculation. Just like any other spell that a creature could cast. A druid's CR does not go up just because he used SNA instead of some battlefield control or SoD spell, inversely the party does not gain less XP because the wizard cast SM instead of some other spell.

The encounter he's describing (I cast Summon Monster N, order the monster to attack me) is actually a dangerous situation, in which the caster could conceivably be killed, especially at lower level. I think some amount of XP would be warranted, though definitely not the full amount. If a fifth-level caster meets a Dretch that attacks him out in the wild, he'd get some XP for it, so I don't see why he wouldn't gain any for one he summoned using Summon Monster III. It makes a kind of fluff sense, too: basically, summoning weaker sparring partners to let him test out his skills.

The encounter would be either between the character and the summoned creature, or between the character and himself. Between the character and himself would be giving him much, much too much XP for the encounter. So it would be between the character and the summoned creature.

[The Oni]

Any sort of challenge can gain you XP, whether that be overcoming traps, winning a contest, or B.S.ing your way out of actual danger through clever roleplaying. As long as it was tricky and dangerous for the characters, you should be able to gain XP for it.

[SinsI]

Well, logically you should gain XP for things like crafting new items, researching new spells, practicing casting them, etc.
Disfunctional D&D rules, however, make you lose XP on most of those, instead of giving it...

[Diarmuid]

Many modules award XP for successfully solving a puzzle as an encounter.

It's not technically a trap, and there is no actual combat (though some uses of skills might help with the solving or open up new options for solving).

I dont see why a wizard traning school couldnt have "exams" as either encounters with summoned/otherwise controlled creatures/other students and or puzzles/traps.