Low-effort replacement mundane.

[bekeleven]

I'd like to bring my favorite PHB classes, the Rogue and the Fighter, into high tier 4-low tier 3 range with a few simple rules. Tell me what you think:

Chassis formed by gestalt. Full BAB, Strong fort and reflex, 8+ int skills. D10 HD. Combine skill lists. Combine proficiencies.

The class gains trapfinding at level 1.

At every level, the class gains one of the following. It also gains 2/level one each level divisible by 4 (4, 8, 12, and 16).

A bonus fighter feat
+1D6 Sneak Attack Damage
A Rogue Special Talent (SRD or Pathfinder list (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents)), or Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, or Improved versions thereof.
Bonus Skill Trick, which doesn't count towards total known.


However, the player can't pick the same item 3 times in 3 levels.

I'm keeping the first doubling to level 4 to discourage dipping, but to some degree I don't really mind if someone dips a few mundane levels for improved evasion and skill mastery. Thoughts?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd drop the doubling idea, but move sneak attack into its own progression-- you shouldn't have to choose between level-relevant damage and interesting options. As for the rest... it should work OK. A quick look at the list of Rogue talents has some decent stuff there...

[bekeleven]

I'd drop the doubling idea, but move sneak attack into its own progression-- you shouldn't have to choose between level-relevant damage and interesting options. As for the rest... it should work OK. A quick look at the list of Rogue talents has some decent stuff there...

The idea was to build a platform for a souped-up rogue: More sneak attack, more/earlier talents, PLUS HP, BAB and Fort, and the occasional feat.

Or, a fighter, but with more skills, better reflex save, more feats, evasion, and rogue talents to shore up weaknesses and allow for more customization.

I originally had sneak attack on its own progression, but I feel like it locks the class into building on the first of these two options, and not the second. Then I went through a period where I was granting 2D6 sneak attack and placing caps on it, and decided I was overcomplicating things.

As is it's significantly more powerful than either base and allows for highly granular customization in the continuum between them. If I changed it, I would probably do the following:

Change sneak attack from +1D6 sneak attack, to +2D6 Sneak Attack, capped at [class level]D6.

Thoughts? Maybe cap at 2/3 Class Level D6? Or is it a waste of time limiting damage output on a class that can effortlessly build an ubercharger?

[OzymandiasX]

I don't know that adding more melee DPR brings fighter or rogue up in tier. Evasion can't keep up with even basic Contingencies, and Sneak Attack can't keep up with save-or-die.

The part I like best of your suggested fix is adding rogue skills to Fighter. :)