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View Full Version : [spoiler] A difficulty with the mechanics of Miko pulling an Anakin



kamikasei
2007-01-30, 09:20 AM
A lot of people on the forums have been commenting that if Miko were to turn blackguard, mechanics-wise, it's possible that she has all the prerequisites and that the one thing she's not likely to have satisfied already is the requirement for peaceful contact with an evil outsider. These people then point out that Sabine, a bona fide evil outsider, is close to hand.

However, looking at the d20srd website, I see that the relevant prerequisite is worded as: "...must have made peaceful contact with an evil outsider who was summoned by him or someone else." (Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm))

Now, the most information I'm aware of on Sabine's origins are that "the archfiends sent" her to Nale. There's no indication (again, that I'm aware of - if I've missed something please correct me) that she was actually summoned by anyone. Therefore it seems that Sabine may not be a valid means for Miko to set up a switch to blackguard at all.

Of course, there are ways around this. There's nothing particularly definitive to show that Sabine wasn't summoned at some point. Do outsiders need to be summoned in order to enter the Prime Material? I honestly don't know. There's the possibility that the Monster in the Dark is an evil outsider of some sort, presumably summoned by Xykon (and it could be argued that its interaction with Miko in the watchtower was 'peaceful' - sure, she tried to kill it, but it didn't seem to notice...) And of course, the Giant could just throw mechanics to the wind and move forward at the speed of plot. I bring this up mainly to point out that it's not necessarily as straightforward a road to Darth Miko as some might think.

I should also note that I don't think it matters. I don't see Miko going the blackguard route. I don't think she's turned evil, for starters, but more than that I have more faith in the Giant as a storyteller than to expect such a hackneyed plot twist. David Brin's criticisms of the Star Wars movies come to mind.

Jayabalard
2007-01-30, 09:26 AM
Personally, I think you're getting caught up in the letter of the rules rather than the spirit of the rules.

Peaceful contact doesn't just mean they are just "Hello, would you like a cup of tea?" ... to me, it implies that there is going to be some sort of deal struck in order to grant the blackguard to be their powers; summoned or not, Sabine should be sufficient for working out that sort of "deal with the devil" to become a blackguard.

Alfryd
2007-01-30, 09:34 AM
There's no indication (again, that I'm aware of - if I've missed something please correct me) that she was actually summoned by anyone.Ooh, good point. Sabine was explicitly *sent* by her infernal masters to watch over her budding mastermind.
Though, if Rich really had his heart set on a blackguard transition, I imagine he could disregard it easily enough.

:nale: "Hey sabine! Come over here!
There, I 'summoned' her."
:sabine:"I'm not certain that really fulfills the..."
:nale:"Shut up and kiss!"
:miko: "Are you certain that's really..."
:nale: "Would I lie to you?"


...more than that I have more faith in the Giant as a storyteller than to expect such a hackneyed plot twist.I hope you are right. Though, the characters spend plenty of time bemoaning cliches they encounter...

Eldon
2007-01-30, 09:42 AM
Don't forget, she "tickled" the big black guy under the umbrella a few comics back, that could have been the "peaceful" contact with an outsider, necessary to go Blackguard.

Thexare Blademoon
2007-01-30, 10:34 AM
Don't forget, she "tickled" the big black guy under the umbrella a few comics back, that could have been the "peaceful" contact with an outsider, necessary to go Blackguard.She was trying to kill it.

Peaceful contact does not work that way!

Igan
2007-01-30, 10:36 AM
What makes the 'peaceful contact' thing interesting is Vaarsuvius may very well have done it in the bar when Sabine was trying to drown her jealousy.
Sabine struck up a conversation, and the pair had a civil discussion of love and life...
Sabine's certainly showed herself willing to talk to somebody without killing them.

Varg
2007-01-30, 10:50 AM
Re-reading #406...Miko's "Everyone in this room but you or I are agents of Evil..." speech sounds a hell of a lot like Palpatine's "Every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic" to my ears after seeing the title of this thraed...

Solara
2007-01-30, 10:56 AM
:nale: "Hey sabine! Come over here!
There, I 'summoned' her."
:sabine:"I'm not certain that really fulfills the..."
:nale:"Shut up and kiss!"
:miko: "Are you certain that's really..."
:nale: "Would I lie to you?"



LOL! Thanks man, that made my morning. :smallbiggrin:

Closet_Skeleton
2007-01-30, 10:59 AM
Ooh, good point. Sabine was explicitly *sent* by her infernal masters to watch over her budding mastermind.

Sabine could have been 'sent' and 'summoned'. If nale cast a spell to summon a 'fiend' then her 'infernal masters' would have recieved the summoning and 'sent' a deligate. Just because a person on the material plane casts the spell doesn't mean that the summoned creature isn't appearing on orders from it's home plane.

Alfryd
2007-01-30, 01:00 PM
Sabine could have been 'sent' and 'summoned'.
Yes. There's merely no evidence for it.

Setra
2007-01-30, 01:07 PM
:nale: "Hey sabine! Come over here!
There, I 'summoned' her."
:sabine:"I'm not certain that really fulfills the..."
:nale:"Shut up and kiss!"
:miko: "Are you certain that's really..."
:nale: "Would I lie to you?"

Hahahahaha

Though you know, it may work. After all "I'm not sure Control Weather can actually do that"


Outsider seducing the paladin
Let it come to pass!! Sorry for taking that out of context

atteSmythe
2007-01-30, 01:09 PM
I agree that there's too much 'letter of the rules' interpretation going on here. To my mind, the 'summoned by the paladin or someone else' line merely means that the paladin doesn't have to be the one to do the summoning.

Perhaps ironically, I think that not enough real thought is being given to the 'peaceful contact' line. It's not enough merely to pass an Evil Outsider on the street, I'd think. The 'contact' is the meeting that concretes the fall, the Outsider seducing the paladin into willful abandonment of all held previously dear.

dragongirl13
2007-01-31, 12:37 AM
I don't think it has to be summoned, as long as peaceful contact is made. Boy, I hope the contact with evil outsiders she's had so far is enough. I WANT MIKO THE BLACKGUARD!

Heh heh. :smallsmile:

The Inquisitor
2007-01-31, 12:46 AM
Ha ha.

I just realized how hot Sabine and Miko making out would be.

Sorry.

The Extinguisher
2007-01-31, 01:07 AM
The only way I see Miko as a Blackguard is if she snaps, claiming the gods to be evil, and become said Blackguard to smite said 'evil', and anyone who she sees as evil.

But I have faith enough in the Giant to not do one of those stupid "I fell. I'm tottaly going to reject everything I have faith in because it's cool. Blackguard now."