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View Full Version : [3.5] Racial Prerequisites and Subtypes (lots of questions)



Zweisteine
2014-02-20, 06:01 PM
In the process of creating a theoretically (kind of) optimized build, I ran into the complication of getting a low-LA outsider into the Eternal Blade PrC. The closest I could get to an elf is celadrin, but I'm not sure they qualify as elves. Looking into this led to various things about type-changing, which led to various other, barely-related questions.

My questions:
On prerequisites:
1a) What does it take to qualify for a prerequisite of a race?
1b) Does that actually require the racial subtype?
1c)What if the race in question has no specific subtype?
2) Does a character with Human Heritage count as a human for the purpose of meeting prerequisites?
3) How reasonable would it be to have [race] Heritage feats for any or all races besides human?
4) What does elven blood (and orc blood, etc) do regarding prerequisites?


On subtypes:

5) Do half-elves (and half-orcs, etc) have any subtypes?
6) Is there any way to get the elf subtype without actually becoming an elf?
7) Can a Shaper of Form's (Dragon Compendium, Dragon 326) Modify Self ability cause a change in subtype when you use it to change race?

8) Does that ability also change all other features of your race (aside from ability scores, of course)?
9) Does that simply remove the level adjustment of your original race?
10) What does that do to any racial hit dice you might have had?


11) How well does the Ritual of Association (Savage Species) work in 3.5?

12) Can it grant the shapechanger subtype, as that wasn't a subtype in 3.0?
13) Why can't it grant the "core subtypes" (human, elf, etc)? Is it reasonable to allow it to grant those subtypes?
14) What counts as a "racial subtype?" I assume the types that have rituals of their own (alignments, elements, aquatic) do not.
15a) What is a "type modifier?"
15b)Would those be extraplanar, native, and augmented, or something else?
16) Can it grant incompatible/unusual types?
17) Give a human the extraplanar subtype? (If it's a type modifier.)
18) Make something both extraplanar and native?
19) Give a demon the angel subtype? (Is angel a racial subtype?)
20) Give anything the incorporeal subtype? (If it were a racial subtype, though I imagine it is not.)
21) Give anything the swarm subtype? What would that do to the subject? (If it were a racial subtype.)
22a) Does it grant the augmented subtype in addition to whatever other subtypes it grants?
22b)If it does, could it grant the augmented subtype directly?




If it's not too inconvenient, please label answers by the number of the question, or just quote the question.

Thank you!
.

Fax Celestis
2014-02-20, 06:26 PM
1a. You have to have the requisite subtype. That's what the subtype is for.
1b. See above.
1c. Any humanoid race should have a specific subtype. Non-humanoid races (like monstrous humanoid races like Goliaths and Thri-Kreen) won't have those.
2. Yes. That is its intended function. The feat treats you as being whatever your base race is and as Humanoid (Human).
3. Pretty reasonable. There's precedent for races counting as other races in a couple of places (such as the Stoneblessed).
4. "For all effects related to race" would include prerequisites, in my eyes. Ask your DM.
5. Half-elves are technically a subtype of elf, according to the MM-I (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#halfElf). As such, they should inherit any traits of the parent race except as otherwise noted. Particularly note that the Drow stats do not list having the Elf subtype, but the sample Drow has it. The easy way to do this would basically be to treat a Half-Elf as being Humanoid (Elf, Human).
6. Not that I'm aware of, but there's an elf for everything. Elves have like 30 different subraces. I'm sure one will work for you.
7. No.
Renaissance: The shaper of form changes race, gender, or general physical appearance. She cannot change type and no ability score adjustments occur as a result of the change. Thus, if the character is weak and becomes an orc, she becomes a weak orc. The shaper of form cannot choose to become a member of a race with a level adjustment.
8. Yes? It's pretty unclearly written, but the fact that they called out that racial ability adjustments aren't made indicates that altering your race changes everything else.
9. No? The implication is that you keep your level adjustment from your base race along with your ability score modifiers; you just change everything else.
10. Nothing. Your type doesn't change.
11+. No idea. I don't touch that book.
22a-b. The augmented subtype mechanically does nothing except indicate that the creature used to be something else, then was templated by a particular kind of template.

Eldonauran
2014-02-20, 07:04 PM
7. No.
8. Yes? It's pretty unclearly written, but the fact that they called out that racial ability adjustments aren't made indicates that altering your race changes everything else.
9. No? The implication is that you keep your level adjustment from your base race along with your ability score modifiers; you just change everything else.
10. Nothing. Your type doesn't change.

I'm going to have to disagree on these:

7: You can not change type. Nothing is mentioned about subtype. If you start off as humanoid, you must end up as a humanoid.
8: The ability states racial ability scores do not change. Everything else, from level adjustment to racial hitdice are part of the creature's 'race'.
9: You are no longer of race "X", its level adjustment should not apply.
10: You are no longer of race "X", its racial hitdice should not apply.

Zweisteine
2014-02-20, 08:15 PM
Thank you for the answers!

I still need answers for 11-21, though.

I find myself wishing the Shaper of Forms wasless vague about the race change... What if you become a race with racial HD, but no LA? (That's question 10b now.)