(3.5) A question regarding Favored Souls and turning undead

[RavynsLand]

So, I entered a campaign a little while ago. We're still level 2.

The issue begins where our DM made us roll linear stats. I got a pretty decent set for a Monk, which is what I'm playing. However, my brother got a raw deal -- all of his stats were mediocre or low, except for his Charisma.

Making the best of things, he made a azurin warlock. Unfortunately his dexterity is a big fat 13, making his AC and ranged attacks mostly pitiful. He's been, to put it bluntly, "sucking hind tit" so far, but to remedy the situation he bought the Complete Divine, which we had not had until now, hearing of the "favored soul" and wanting to multiclass with a divine class that used charisma as its core stat.

His plan was to take Favored Soul for a few levels and then start going into the Eldritch Disciple prestige class. The big problem lays in the fact that Eldritch Disciple has Turn/Rebuke Undead as a prerequisite, which favored soul can't do.

The obvious solution is to take a single level of cleric and move forward, but he's loathe to do so. His character's wisdom is low as hell, meaning that a level of cleric would basically be wasted and drag his spell progression down even further in both of his other classes.

As a divine caster, is there any sort of feat, feature, or item that could allow a Warlock/Favored Soul the ability to turn undead even once/poorly, enough to move into the Eldritch Disciple prestige class? I've flipped through the books a bit and tried using google, but so far I haven't found anything.

Any help's appreciated. :)

[Doc_Maynot]

Funny thing is that if that is precisely what you are building for you can totally make a decent Wis-lock. (Hellfire Ur-lock, what what!) But since that is not an option as the character is already in play, they should take a few levels of favored soul until they can qualify for the Sacred Exorcist class from Complete Divine which provides turn undead and has Knowledge (the planes) and Knowledge (religion) as skill prerequisites. Just make sure the favored soul gets dismissal or dispel evil... They are good aligned, right?

[RavynsLand]

Funny thing is that if that is precisely what you are building for you can totally make a decent Wis-lock. (Hellfire Ur-lock, what what!) But since that is not an option as the character is already in play, they should take a few levels of favored soul until they can qualify for the Sacred Exorcist class from Complete Divine which provides turn undead and has Knowledge (the planes) and Knowledge (religion) as skill prerequisites. Just make sure the favored soul gets dismissal or dispel evil... They are good aligned, right?

I do believe he is Chaotic Good. :D

Thank you so much, I'll tell him right away!

[nedz]

What Doc_Maynot is hinting at is to use Ur Priest instead of Favoured Soul. They're both in CDiv.

[Doc_Maynot]

What Doc_Maynot is hinting at is to use Ur Priest instead of Favoured Soul. They're both in CDiv.

In a wis-lock build that is. But alas, it is too late for such things.

[weckar]

Doesn't Ur-Priest have an Evil alignment restriction? Which would be an issue with a CG?

[RavynsLand]

Yeah, Ur-Priest is a no-go in this party. And his only decent stat is Charisma so FS is a must.

Another quick question -- Dismissal is a fourth level spell, meaning that by natural progression he'd be a Warlock2/Favored Soul8/Sacred Exorcist1 (11th level) before he could take Eldritch Disciple.

I feel like I remember a feat that could be used to burn two spells to cast a spell one level higher, but I'm not sure if it was just for mages or not. Is there any way he could cast the spell at a lower level?

[Doc_Maynot]

Versatile Spellcaster from races of the dragon, but they would still need to know the spell.

[RavynsLand]

Right...

What if he used UMD to use a scroll? That would count as being able to cast the spell, technically.

[Doc_Maynot]

The issue would be that using a magic item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#usingItems) does not seem to be considered the same as casting a spell

I will double check in the rules compendium however.

[RavynsLand]

Going through a few pages and from all I can tell, multiple sources state that using a scroll is "just like casting a spell," it even triggers arcane spell failure and is subject to counterspells.

[Thurbane]

A Knowstone of Dismissal (Dragon #333 p.93) and Versatile Spellcaster should do the trick, since a Knowstone effectively adds the spell to your "Spells Known" as long as you carry it.

Downside is it costs 16,000gp.

You could use it to qualify, wait until you can get Dismissal on your spells known list by levelling up, then sell it for 8,000gp. If your DM is exceptionally generous, he might let you "borrow" one from an NPC, and give it back when you know the spell for yourself.

[weckar]

Is your DM okay with multiple PrCs on one character? I know I would be difficult in their position, certainly for a dip...

[RavynsLand]

Yupyup, we aren't being limited with exp penalties or PrC limits.

And I'll keep the knowstone in mind if the UMD route doesn't work (as that would be a little quicker).

[weckar]

Well, I didn't mean limits, as said, but more justifying it in an RP sense, especially since SacEx carries a quite heavy RP tax...

[RavynsLand]

Our group usually ignores RP restrictions. We're heavy roleplayers who "don't like to be told how to play our characters," as I can quote from just about anyone in the group. :)

[weckar]

Our group usually ignores RP restrictions. We're heavy roleplayers (...)

Oooooookay..... I'm just going to back away from this contradiction...


Knowstone is a good call, by the way.

[RavynsLand]

Oooooookay..... I'm just going to back away from this contradiction...


Knowstone is a good call, by the way.

Not a contradiction, friend. Just because you don't obey the RP commands of every class doesn't mean you don't utilize that class for RP purposes in some way. For example, we have a gnome paladin who has a crusade to tinker with and eventually "fix" the world. Is it specifically congruent with the standard, stereotypical paladin? Not really. But he's still lawful good and still pursues his goals with the same zeal, and we let him do it.

With a level of SExorcist and the Exorcism ability, our Warlock can keep his "wandering reject" persona and add more of a spiritual twist to it as religion enters his character persona. It doesn't mean he needs to specifically enter a church and do what some NPC tells him to.

[Doc_Maynot]

I'm confuzzled but according to the D&D glossary:

spell completion item
A magic item (typically a scroll) that contains a partially cast spell. Since the spell preparation step has already been completed, all the user need do to cast the spell is complete the final gestures or words normally required to trigger it. To use a spell completion item safely, the caster must be high enough level in the appropriate class to cast the spell already, though it need not be a known spell. A caster who does not fit this criterion has a chance of spell failure. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity just as casting a spell does.

Source: PHB
So it would seems as though having a scroll of one of the spells could work... If anyone out there has a better grasp of this feel free to correct me, mainly because I barely believe this myself.

Also just to note until they actually learn the spell: If they lost the scroll or became unable to use it (AMF or something) they would no longer qualify for the PrC and would lose the turn undead ability.

[RavynsLand]

I'm confuzzled but according to the D&D glossary:

So it would seems as though having a scroll of one of the spells could work... If anyone out there has a better grasp of this feel free to correct me, mainly because I barely believe this myself.

Also just to note until they actually learn the spell: If they lost the scroll or became unable to use it (AMF or something) they would no longer qualify for the PrC and would lose the turn undead ability.

Fantastic. I'll pitch both routes to my brother and see what direction he wants to go.

Thanks for the help everyone!

[ZamielVanWeber]

Note that he would still need to be Favored Soul 8 yo cast the spell from a scroll. Knowstone + feat would get him there faster.

[RavynsLand]

Note that he would still need to be Favored Soul 8 yo cast the spell from a scroll. Knowstone + feat would get him there faster.

Warlock gives him Use Magic Device as a class skill, if we go the scroll route it'd be using that. :)

[ZamielVanWeber]

Right. Good luck with that... That is just a RAW nightmare. Side note: mystic wanderer ftom Faiths and Pantheons is a really cool PrC that I do not think requires turning.

[Skevvix]

Warlock gives him Use Magic Device as a class skill, if we go the scroll route it'd be using that. :)

I think he was meaning that to activate a scroll, the user must have the spell on their list, be the proper type(arcane/divine) and be the proper level.(I used to think this too)
However, if your level is to low to auto-cast it, it takes a casterlevel check (DC = scroll CL+1) and if failed there is a chance for a mishap, and a nat 1 is an auto-fail.

UMD should work as long as your brother is confident he can make a CL8 check, which should be trivial.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I forgot about warlock's UMD. My party rately uses it for scrolls because the DC is silly high early game. By the time he needs it 27 should noy be too bad. If he is human he can take able learner and put ranks into it easily even while levelling up Favored Soul.

[nedz]

Doesn't Ur-Priest have an Evil alignment restriction? Which would be an issue with a CG?

It depends upon how far you take your re-fluffing. If you have a good RP reason for your impiety then the alignment might be waivable.