[PF] Gunquisitor help

[NotAnAardvark]

So I'm DMing a pathfinder campaign and have been helping some of my players who are new to the system and trying to balance them with the players who are better at it.

Now here's my problem: One of these players wants to play an Inquisitor with a gun (He's been working on his 40k army for the past two months so I blame that tbh). Black Powder is awful beyond all awfulability, naturally, but the other problem is that he doesn't want to give up the ability to reach the Inquisitor capstone.

So I'm lost here. Do I give him a hand crossbow and refluff it? Do I suggest he take the proficiency as a starting feat? Do I just tell him he's on a fool's errand and hand him a longbow?

I don't expect the game to be anything more than middling in terms of optimization but I still don't wanna throw him some ideas that end up being terrible and Inquisitor is not one of the classes I pay much attention to.

[Psyren]

Remember that the firearm rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/firearms) themselves allow you to tweak the price of black powder in your campaign. If you feel it's too expensive, just use the Commonplace Guns variant (reducing BP to 2g/dose instead of 10g) or Guns Everywhere (1g instead of 10g). You don't even need to actually have them be everywhere, just say that character has a dedicated supplier - maybe he is a scion of a noble family that manufactures the things, or he hails from a nation that has dedicated itself to manufacturing them and he has a contact there.

[Tanuki Tales]

A house rule I've been teasing around with is a feat that lets a caster sacrifice a spell slot and it fuels the next X attacks with a gun, no reloading or ammo necessary, based on the level of spell sacrificed. Orisons and Cantrips are something I was still puzzling over how to let interact (if at all).

[Psyren]

A house rule I've been teasing around with is a feat that lets a caster sacrifice a spell slot and it fuels the next X attacks with a gun, no reloading or ammo necessary, based on the level of spell sacrificed. Orisons and Cantrips are something I was still puzzling over how to let interact (if at all).

Given that cantrips/orisons are level 0, it seems to me that they would fuel the next 0 attacks with the gun and the problem solves itself.

[Tanuki Tales]

Given that cantrips/orisons are level 0, it seems to me that they would fuel the next 0 attacks with the gun and the problem solves itself.

Well, if X is a number higher than 1, then a Cantrip or Orison would be considered 1/2 and not 0. But I'm not sure if that's rules language that's popped up in Pathfinder, or I'm just holding over from 3.5.

Ranged combat is already annoying enough as it is without needing to track every bit of ammo when melee doesn't need to track squat, so it's something that should be easily handwaved.

[VexingFool]

Choosing a bad or suboptimal domain/inquisition will not hurt an Inquisitor too much. The main power of the class lies in the Judgement and Bane class features. But if there is a domain/inquisition that you think is a better fit for your player than Black Powder then have him take the Gunsmithing feat. You could use the old version/houserule of the Heirloom weapon trait to give him proficiency in whatever firearm he chooses.

You could also try letting your player know that the chances of reaching level-20 are pretty small and he may never even see the capstone. In the meantime he would be better off splashing some Gunslinger to help his build. Then you could offer him a rebuild at level-20 if you made it there and he still wanted True Judgement.

[Psyren]

Well, if X is a number higher than 1, then a Cantrip or Orison would be considered 1/2 and not 0. But I'm not sure if that's rules language that's popped up in Pathfinder, or I'm just holding over from 3.5.

Even if that were the case, all fractions are rounded down in both systems.

[Tanuki Tales]

Even if that were the case, all fractions are rounded down in both systems.

Not with 0 level spells. For any effect relying on spell level, 0th level spells have always been treated as 1/2 level instead of 0. Though, again, not sure if this carried over to PF.

[Psyren]

Not with 0 level spells. For any effect relying on spell level, 0th level spells have always been treated as 1/2 level instead of 0. Though, again, not sure if this carried over to PF.

That's just it though. How would you fire half a shot?

[Tanuki Tales]

That's just it though. How would you fire half a shot?

I specified this would only work if X > 1. So if you get 2 shots for every spell level sacrificed to fuel the feat, 0th level spells would get you 1 shot. Which I think is fair for a 0th level slot.

[Psyren]

I specified this would only work if X > 1. So if you get 2 shots for every spell level sacrificed to fuel the feat, 0th level spells would get you 1 shot. Which I think is fair for a 0th level slot.

Which means you get infinite shots since PF has infinite cantrips. Why even bother having the system then?

[Tanuki Tales]

Which means you get infinite shots since PF has infinite cantrips. Why even bother having the system then?

Don't be so dramatic. I was suggesting requiring a feat and a standard action to get one "free" attack in the next round.

[Psyren]

Don't be so dramatic. I was suggesting requiring a feat and a standard action to get one "free" attack in the next round.

It was an honest question, not "drama" :smalltongue:

Also, you didn't say anything about the action required, or about how many slots could be sacrificed per round, etc.

[NightbringerGGZ]

An Inquisitor can gain proficiency with a gun by worshiping a deity with guns as a favored weapon or with the Black Powder Inquisition. I actually think the Inquisition isn't too bad considering you get 2 free feats and a free bonus to all your attacks. What you won't gain is an ability modifier added to damage, which frankly is pretty desirable.

Unless you (as the GM) know that your game is going to hit level 20 and then stay there for awhile, I would advise your players to ignore the capstones and think more about how the character will work for the rest of the game. A gun using Inquisitor could be a ton fun, but will work best with some multiclassing. I would suggest 3 levels of Fighter (Trench Fighter) and the rest Inquisitor for a decent ranged character with additional utility.

Another fun alternative is Gunslinger 5 / Shield Marsha (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/shieldmarshal)l 10 which basically gives you a Gunslinger with Judgements.

[Tanuki Tales]

It was an honest question, not "drama" :smalltongue:

Also, you didn't say anything about the action required, or about how many slots could be sacrificed per round, etc.

Fair enough, those are things I did not share. As I said, the intention would be requiring a standard action to sacrifice a single spell slot to fuel the feat.

[Psyren]

What you won't gain is an ability modifier added to damage, which frankly is pretty desirable.

They get plenty of bonus damage already though between Judgments, Bane, and Litanies (e.g. Vengeance and Righteousness.) And you can multiclass e.g. into gunslinger for more.

[Slipperychicken]

If you want to be awesome with guns, you need the following:


Firearm Proficiency
Really good dex
Dex to damage (generally via Gunslinger5 or Trench Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/trench-fighter) 3, or even both if you want)
Free action reload (typically achieved via Rapid Reload+Alchemical Cartridge, but Rapid Reload+Advanced Firearms works too)
Standard ranged combat feats (precise shot, point blank shot, rapid shot, deadly aim). You need bonus feats to make this happen in the early game.
Either the quick clear deed OR an advanced firearm to avoid gun explosions
A decent array of consumables/ammo to overcome DR and hardness (i.e. cold iron, adamantine, silver, aligned, magic)

After you have all that stuff, you're basically an archer who swings at touch AC and Deadly Aims every turn. If you were smart, then you hopefully got a gun with a good range increment so you aren't eating a -8 every time someone tries to run or cast a Fly spell.


Now here's my problem: One of these players wants to play an Inquisitor with a gun (He's been working on his 40k army for the past two months so I blame that tbh). Black Powder is awful beyond all awfulability, naturally, but the other problem is that he doesn't want to give up the ability to reach the Inquisitor capstone.


What level is the campaign going to, realistically? If it won't reach 20, he's not getting that capstone anyway. If it goes past 20, then he can just get it later.

[Nihilarian]

Honestly I'd go Gunslinger/Shield Marshal.

[NightbringerGGZ]

They get plenty of bonus damage already though between Judgments, Bane, and Litanies (e.g. Vengeance and Righteousness.) And you can multiclass e.g. into gunslinger for more.

Which is why I suggested the Trench Fighter actually, as it minimizes the required dip and grants enough bonus feats to get pretty far down the list of required ranged feats.