Alternatives that are actually traps.

[Silentone98]

Reading the books, you occasionally find 'alternate system" to standard methods of doing things. sometimes these alternate systems really bend you over backward's but its not readily apparent to the casual viewer.


For example, the Bloodlines(Pg 19, unearthed aracana) offer a way to progressively apply the bonus's of your heritage.
But take the dragon bloodlines for example, for a Major Bloodline, a level cost of 3, your getting significantly less than a half-dragon template(with the same cost in levels)

unless theres some significant bonus to this to compensate, this really makes bloodlines In unearthed arcana pretty useless, if not trash.

Take Gold dragon bloodline for example.... theres a lot of options so im grabbing one at random and comparing at the earliest level you gain all abilities:

**Note, the 3 levels of Bloodline can count towards spellcaster level and other level dependent abilities, as per its description.
level 1 (lvl 4 before LA)Half dragon/// lvl 20 Bloodline character
+8 STR, +2 CON, +2 INT, +2 CHA///+1 STR, +1 CON, +1 INT
2 Claws and Bite/// None
Breathe Weapon///Breathe Weapon
None///Power Attack
Wings if large or bigger///None
Nat AC +4///Nat AC +3

Resistances, saves, skill bonus's and other stuff... aside from the resistances/immunity that they both get(half dragon starts as immunity O.o), not much more worth mentioning... but this already gives a clear idea.



So what other alternate systems are there that you have seen, that just are not worth it, in part or on whole?

lets not include class's in this. Unless its like, alternate class features or something.... but no this class is better than that class things please.

[lunar2]

you really need to read up on bloodlines. as you pointed out, unlike LA, they count towards advancing effective level for class features you already have. also, there is a RAW argument that they don't count towards your ECL. meaning you can take all three bloodline levels going from level 1 to 2, paying just 1,000 XP each.

so compare half dragon, which puts you 3 whole levels behind, to gold dragon blooldine, which puts you 3,000 XP behind and up 3 caster levels, making your caster level higher than your ECL.

also, you should note that the major dragon bloodline's breath weapon is (Ex) instead of the normal (Su), so it works in antimagic fields whenever that comes up. it also has no usage restrictions, which means it's at will, compared to the half dragon's 1/day. iirc, it also does more damage.

and you didn't list all the other bonuses the bloodline gives, like the bonus to skills and the SLAs.

[claypigeons]

The benefit of bloodlines is that, unlike with regular LA, they specifically count toward "level dependant" calculations.

And some people argue that they ar just level loss, instead of level.adjustment. Which is LA buyoff on steroids (you level faster when you're lower, but now with bonuses).

[Mnemnosyne]

Bloodlines are a terrible example of this because of how confusing they're written. They can be a good option, or they can be terrible, depending on both the character build and the way they're interpreted to work.

Even if interpreted in the most unfavorable way, there are specific builds that benefit from them, because they advance level-based abilities of each class you have individually. So a one-level dip in a class, if you have 3 bloodline levels, gives you 4 levels of that class's level-based calculations. This makes it really powerful with binders and to a lesser degree, psionics, especially the Ardent, where the most significant thing respectively is effective binder level or manifester level, because each class that advances those things increases them by +4 when you take your first level in it. Ardent 5/Bloodline 3/Anarchic Initiate 1/Mindbender 1 has a manifester level of 16. With Overchannel, they could be manifesting 9th level powers at 10th level...if they've got the PP for it.

[Silentone98]

lol, off topic guys.

Luner, I did read that part... I even state that level dependent abilities bit in my spoiler pull down and I think you realize that based on the other things you said,... so ok?

second, does this make it worth it? idk, maybe there is a case where its worth it but as a caster your still giving up your new spells learned and spells per day/slots and wouldn't take that as a Half dragon OR a bloodline.. so why would you do this as a caster Luner? Clay makes a valid point, but that only applies in cases where your DM is gonna allow the extra unnecessary headache. In most cases I imagine it would be treated in the same way any XP altering thing is, ignored unless argued for.
So that gets thrown into a situational call... and still doesn't cover that the bloodlines bonus's don't come close to matching- with or without level dependent abilities getting the bonus or XP being slightly faster.

Skills and such were intentionally left out, not really impressive enough to bother and that was also stated... im sure they mean something to someone... but the most impressive there is a +affinity bonus to dealing with gold dragons... hey, I might actually like that if I actually ever find one O.o

[Firechanter]

Druid has a number of ACFs that are traps from a pure power-related point of view. UA Simple Druid or PHB2 Shapeshift comes to mind.

However, the only problem with these is that they aren't communicated as being weaker on purpose. The 3.5 designers just never brought it over themselves to admit that the PHB balance sucks, Druids are the most broken class ever and sorely require a nerf.

[Telok]

I fooled around with a sorcerer1/druid3/MT2/arcane heirophant10 build that used the major fey bloodline to get the requsite skill ranks and Iron Will for early entry.

Possibly the best use of them is to ID a bloodline feat that you need for something and can get without spending a bloodline level on.

Related: Some of the UA wizard alterations are pretty crap but for real giggles check out the Horse Totem barbarian. Lose the uncanny dodges and gain Run and Endurance... Good trade huh?

[Krazzman]

Druid has a number of ACFs that are traps from a pure power-related point of view. UA Simple Druid or PHB2 Shapeshift comes to mind.

However, the only problem with these is that they aren't communicated as being weaker on purpose. The 3.5 designers just never brought it over themselves to admit that the PHB balance sucks, Druids are the most broken class ever and sorely require a nerf.

Yeah... I like the Shapeshift variant more.

I think quite a few ACF are really really bad. Some of the Monk-Style ACF (like undying way monk or similar in UA) or Lion Totem Barbarian... or the Mantle of Flame ACF for Warlocks (at least I think it is worthless...)