[PF] Bugbear stats/Race Points

[Yanisa]

Hey Playgrounders,

For my campaign setting I was incorporating some of the more evil races into more playable neutral races and one of the main races I set my sights on was the goblins. Now one of my players asked/requested of Bugbears would also be a playable race. Now I said no because of their their racial hit die and associated stronger then normal traits, but now I cant the idea out of my had, so I figured maybe I can build them and then downgrade them with the wonky but workable Race Point system.

The problem is the ability score modifiers:

Now Bugbears have:
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 9
And NPCS without (npc) class levels only have 10's or 11's, which would mean:
Str +6, Dex +2, Con +2, Cha -2.
But then the reincarnation stats the Bugbear as Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2... So...
Do bugbears ave +4 or +6 strength racial?

Also good luck getting those stats in RP. The best I figure is:
[1 RP]Specialized (Psychical) For +2 Dex, +2 Con -2 Cha
[9 RP]Advanced Strength, twice for +4 Str (Or 15 RP for +6 Str...)
So, any way to get these stats cheaper?

Also the other RP:
[02 RP] Dark Vision
[04 RP] Scent
[04 RP] Skill Bonus Intimidate, twice*
[05 RP] Sneaky**
[01 RP] Stalker

*I know that is technically illegal, but +4 intimate doesn't exist in Race Points...
**I might cheat different and go for Sneaker Rider, but with Intimidate instead Ride for 6 RP instead 9 RP

For a total of 26 (Or 31 RP with +6 str), which is quite a lot of bugbears. This places the between Centaurs (28 RP) and Ogres (23 RP), both of those are CR3 races, where the bugbears are only CR 2... (31 is even off the charts)

So any answer on the ability scores, comments, thoughts... Am I even doing this Race Point thing right?
Also any general advise on how to slim bugbears down to make a closer to fair race choice? (I figure bringing down the skill bonus and ability modifiers slim it down to about ~12 Race Points)

[Lord Vukodlak]

The stat block is always correct for racial modifiers that being said. Reincarnate isn't required to match it exactly you don't for example gain racial HD from reincarnate.

Your comparisons are also off, the 23 point ogre from the race builder doesn't have the same stat modifiers as the bestiary ogre.

The race builder ogre has less strength(+6 instead of +10), less natural armor(+3 instead of +5) and less con +2 instead of +4. They also have lower penalties to mental ability scores and no penalty to dexterity.

The race builder Centaurs are much the same they don't copy the Bestiary stat modifiers exactly. If your going to play a bugbear exactly as is out of the bestiary don't use the race builder just use the Bugbear and have it count as a level 2 character racial HD and all.

[Yanisa]

The stat block is always correct for racial modifiers that being said.

Reincarnate isn't required to match it exactly you don't for example gain racial HD from reincarnate.

Well all other races seem to match the race with the Str/Dex/Con bonuses and penalties. I haven't checked all of them, but ssst.
Hence my confusion that bug bear is different, although it might be balance. +4 str is already worth dieing for, let alone +6 str.

To confuse the argument more with obscure references, the "example bugbear ranger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/unique-monsters/cr-3/bruthazmus)" (which in reality is a named NPC from Rise of the Runelords and converted to current rules by "a fan") has impossible to reach stats it seems. Based on the Elite Array and earlier named modifiers I am getting pretty close, but he has +2 more con then expected. Then again, he does seem to prove the whole +6 strength... ugh...

I guess the +6 str is more true to the Bestiary, and puts the Bugbear at a whopping 31 Race Points.


Your comparisons are also off, the 23 point ogre from the race builder doesn't have the same stat modifiers as the bestiary ogre.

The race builder ogre has less strength(+6 instead of +10), less natural armor(+3 instead of +5) and less con +2 instead of +4. They also have lower penalties to mental ability scores and no penalty to dexterity.

I just picked two races based of the RP value, and never actually checked it out... but there is indeed a large difference between the Advance Race Guide and normal versions, also for the centaur. Seems I am not the only one struggling to adapt creatures with RHD, if even the designers cant pull it off. :smalltongue:

Then my 23 Bugbear does fit the race points and general way how RHD races are handled, but it's still a bomb of Race Points.

To slim it down I guess the easiest route is:
[01 RP] Specialized (Psychical) For +2 Str, +2 Dex -2 Cha
[02 RP] Dark Vision
[04 RP] Scent
[02 RP] Skill Bonus Intimidate
[02 RP] Skill Bonus Stealth
[01 RP] Stalker

For 12 points... I might give them some form of Lesser Scent to get to the 10 points and also get trait of that "Advanced Trait" label...

Maybe Carrion Sense twice, so they can smell creatures that have 50% hp or less... Bugbear smells blood, Bugbear smells victory.