Is a creature a "solid object"?

[Jergmo]

I'm making a Kool Aid Man sort of fellow using Combat Brute, Shock Trooper and Dungeon Crasher. There's something about getting a free trip attempt if I bull rush one creature into another, and Dungeon Crasher requires I bull rush someone into a wall or solid object. So if I domino effect two creatures, can I then demolish the initial target with a body slam?

[Jack_Simth]

I'm making a Kool Aid Man sort of fellow using Combat Brute, Shock Trooper and Dungeon Crasher. There's something about getting a free trip attempt if I bull rush one creature into another, and Dungeon Crasher requires I bull rush someone into a wall or solid object. So if I domino effect two creatures, can I then demolish the initial target with a body slam?
Not clearly defined, so up to the DM. An Iron Golem? Almost certainly. A Gelatinous Cube? Almost certainly not. A human? Maybe. A human in full plate? Probably. A gnome? Probably not.

[Grayson01]

I think by RAW no because object is a clear type of entity in DnD, but I wouldn't say no to the Kool Aid Man dominoing multiple people for damage.

[Divide by Zero]

Creature and object are distinct terms in D&D. See the description of nonabilities, for instance:


Wisdom

Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom. Anything with no Wisdom score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Wisdom score also has no Charisma score.
Charisma

Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma. Anything with no Charisma score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Charisma score also has no Wisdom score.

[Jergmo]

I'm sorry for the late response, it's been a hectic day. Thank you for your help, guys!

[HunterOfJello]

All matter within the D&D multiverse falls into one of two categories. Object or creature. Both are specifically defined and nothing can be both at the same time.


(Unless purely by name in the case of the creature called "Animated Object")

[Drachasor]

All matter within the D&D multiverse falls into one of two categories. Object or creature. Both are specifically defined and nothing can be both at the same time.


(Unless purely by name in the case of the creature called "Animated Object")

Actually intelligent magical items are both objects and creatures.

Outside of that though, you are correct AFAIK.

[TuggyNE]

Actually intelligent magical items are both objects and creatures.

How do you know they're objects? They're magic items, yes, but that cuts no ice, since nowhere are "magic item" and "object" linked in any way that I'm aware of. Barring that, they're just creatures, not objects any more.

No, the real weirdness comes in metamorphosis, which sort of claims to turn the manifester into an object. With mental ability scores retained. What the even what. :smalleek:

[Drachasor]

How do you know they're objects? They're magic items, yes, but that cuts no ice, since nowhere are "magic item" and "object" linked in any way that I'm aware of. Barring that, they're just creatures, not objects any more.

No, the real weirdness comes in metamorphosis, which sort of claims to turn the manifester into an object. With mental ability scores retained. What the even what. :smalleek:

I'll grant that. On the other hand "Object" and "creature" aren't actually strictly defined anywhere. We know that anything with no Wisdom or Charisma score is an object. That's about it as best I know. (Edit: Note, that doesn't mean all objects have no Wisdom or Charisma scores).

An intelligent magic item has a lot of properties we associate with objects. It has hardness and hitpoints, but no hit dice. As best I know it has no strength, constitution, or dexterity either. They don't even have their own initiative roll and it is unclear how to determine when they act if they aren't being carried by someone.

Sure, the text says "treat them as constructs" but it also says they merely "can actually be considered creatures." This isn't the same as even saying they are creatures. If someone tells you a robot could be considered a dog and to treat it like one, that doesn't make it a dog.

So perhaps it is better to say intelligent magic items are in some weird middle ground where they can be treated like creatures, but they have almost none of the essential stats we associate with creatures.

Regarding spells, Polymorph Any Object is pretty much the same.

[TuggyNE]

I'll grant that. On the other hand "Object" and "creature" aren't actually strictly defined anywhere. We know that anything with no Wisdom or Charisma score is an object. That's about it as best I know. (Edit: Note, that doesn't mean all objects have no Wisdom or Charisma scores).


A living or otherwise active being, not an object. So we do know that no creatures are objects and no objects are creatures.


An intelligent magic item has a lot of properties we associate with objects. It has hardness and hitpoints, but no hit dice. As best I know it has no strength, constitution, or dexterity either. They don't even have their own initiative roll and it is unclear how to determine when they act if they aren't being carried by someone.

There are a fair number of creatures that lack Str, Dex, and/or Con scores, so it's really only the lack of HD that's strange.

[Drachasor]

With regards to the OP, I'd interpret "solid object" as meaning a rigid object. Foam isn't a solid object for instance. A stone wall is though. Though, it was perhaps RAI that "solid object" in the case of the dungeon crasher means that the object not only needs to be rigid, but needs to oppose your attempts to move it (at least based on your angle). You can get some odd stuff otherwise, I think, but that probably doesn't matter too much.


So we do know that no creatures are objects and no objects are creatures.

I missed that. Specific trumps general though, so a general definition doesn't mean there are not exceptions.


There are a fair number of creatures that lack Str, Dex, and/or Con scores, so it's really only the lack of HD that's strange.

I can't think of any creature off-hand that lacks all three scores. That's very unusual to say the least. There's more that's odd than that and no HD. There's a lack of initiative score, it uses object rules for its saves (from magical items), AC and so forth.

And the rules don't explicitly say it IS a creature. They oddly sidestep saying that. So it might just be an object that is treated as a creature in regards to some things. Or you could read the text as saying it is both an object and a creature given its statistics.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Solid in this case would mean an unyielding object. If you bull rush someone against a large tree, that tree will stay put and they'll get hurt. If you bull rush someone against a bounce house, they're not going to abruptly stop when they hit it and it's not going to hurt them much, if at all.

If the object you bull rush them into moves out of the way for them, or if they can push the object over and continue moving, then it's not a solid object and you don't deal dungeoncrasher damage. Creatures can be pushed out of the way, plus they don't block movement, so bull rushing someone into a creature definitely does not count as knocking them against a solid object.