Warlock Conversion/update

[arkangel111]

I have spent the last couple weeks slaving away over this project and am now opening it up for the public to comment on. I have seen several warlock conversions including the Ethermancer from interjection games. While I liked the conversion I thought it drastically changed the class and lost some of the real Warlock feel mechanically and introduced some more complicated ways of managing resources.
While I am choosing to move away from the demon portion of it I think the class itself follows pretty closely with the 3.5 warlock. This is by no means a final version but I am beginning to think I may be straying from balance.
I also utilized several Warlock guides and even DFA guides while doing the conversion in case I failed to see how things could really be used.
I am looking for some feedback so feel free to leave constructive criticism in the comments on the document. I also left several notes in the document to help explain the thought process behind my choices.

My intentions on this conversion:

Keep Balanced
Maintain the No-resource-management feel without complicated rules.
Keep balanced (not typo)
Make viable in pathfinder
Fill a tier 3 role (mostly)

I just want to extend my thanks in advance to all who help make this a viable class.


the link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e2xRLLDUzXL0Lo9dhwAKpaHrEifGngHoDHM88y_y7T4/edit?usp=sharing

PS. how do I get my signature to look like a quote?

[arkangel111]

just trying not to get buried... bump...

oh and feel free to tell me your thoughts in these posts.. I know a few have looked but no one has commented...

[JoseDeburo]

Well I looked at it and personally I think that it is quite good. I love warlocks and the only decent one that I have found so far is at http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/warlock. The one you built is beefed up a lot better though. I think it was a good idea to take out a lot of the less useful knacks that the one that I found has. I give it 4 out of 5 stars.

[Erik Vale]

Posting to say I'm subscribing to review later.

For the quotebox, just remove the spaces inside the brackets below.

[QUOTE=Chronos ]I'm sure a warforged would be quite surprised at getting pregnant, but it can happen anyway, because magic. Dragons don't tell the laws of reality to sit down and shut up; rather, the laws meekly ask the dragon permission before standing up in the first place.[ /QUOTE]

You can instead click the quote button of the OP, then cut and paste it to your sig, that way it will link it to the original post. That, and it'll be right if I'm wrong.

[arkangel111]

@Erik thanks for telling me about the quotes it worked just like you thought it did.

Also made a few updates, mostly including some fluff, and renaming to move away from the old 3.5 warlock. Still need to hit up all the invocations. I would post it here on the board but I have no idea how to format a table and make things easier to read.

[JoseDeburo]

Interesting. I like the new fluff. Also I had a question. The invocations on their table, is that the number of extra invocations they learn at that level or is that the total number they know without the two they start with?

[Blue_C.]

First off, I really like the explanatory notes you provide. That is very helpful in letting us know where you're thinking lies, and to suggest possible modifications.

In particular, have you considered eliminating the final bonus feat at level 16, and allowing Soul blasts to affect all creates, not just those with a soul? That late in the game, bonus feats, particularly these bonus feats (all of which the Akashic Mage would probably be loathed to wait quite that long before getting), would feel a bit meh to me, while gaining greater mastery over Aether forces makes a lot of sense. And there's nice symmetry between getting soul blast at 6th, and greater soul blast at 16th.

I like your cantrip idea. They could maybe use one or two more, but it's fine as is.

Overall, I like the work you put into this and the new flavor you've added. And your version has scads less potential for abuse than the Adamant Press version that was linked. Mind, I liked theirs too, but there's some balance issues that another errata pass might have eliminated.

[arkangel111]

I appreciate your guys' input. I had honestly been thinking about the cantrips over the last few days and looked at the Magus. The Magus has a number of cantrips equal to their cha. So I thought that offering the same deal would be appropriate for the Akasha Mage.

This is more or less what I am looking at adding over the next couple days.

The Akasha Mage gains a number of 0-level spells taken from the Sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to their cha mod (min 1). Alternatively the Akasha Mage may select a 0-level spell from any list at the cost of two 0-level spells. Regardless of the type of spell selected it is cast as an arcane spell.

Also, I think you might be right about that bonus feat at 16th. I am thinking of letting it affect all creatures and maybe increase the boost to 3d6.

What do you guys think?

[JoseDeburo]

That is a great idea. I like it a lot.

[Snowbluff]

I think the invocations known needs to be improved.

[thompur]

The vast majority of my experience with Pathfinder is through Pathfinder Society, which I am sure colors my perception of this. Also, the Warlock is my favorite 3.5 class.

I like what I see here, overall. I like the cantrips at 2nd level. I also approve of the extra invocation at 1st level, giving you a bit more versatiliy early.

As to invocations, some comments and reccomendations:


Bewitching Blast: Target must make Will save or be confused for 1 round. This is a mind-influencing effect.


Hindering Blast: Target of your Aether blast must succeed on a Will save or be slowed for 1 round.


I think both of these should have a duration of 1 min., like the Noxious Blast. The 1 rd. never seemed to be long enough to make them worth while, especially since, with confusion, there is a 25% chance it will effectively have no effect.

Binding Blast: Target of your Aether blast must make Will save or be stunned for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Another that should be 1 min., or at least 1rd/2 levels. It's exemplary, after all!

Otherworldly Whispers(-): Gain bonus +3 on all Knowledge checks.

Here's where my PFS experience kicks in because in PFS, Knowledge is king. Making all knowledge skills class skills seems way too good. I would say choose any 3.


I'm at work ATM, so I'll have other comments later. Nice work, though.:smallsmile:

[arkangel111]

@ thompur thanks for your suggestions I looked into a few so here you go.


Bewitching Blast: Target must make Will save or be confused for 1 round. This is a mind-influencing effect.

Hindering Blast: Target of your Aether blast must succeed on a Will save or be slowed for 1 round.


I think both of these should have a duration of 1 min., like the Noxious Blast. The 1 rd. never seemed to be long enough to make them worth while, especially since, with confusion, there is a 25% chance it will effectively have no effect.

No offense But i think 1 min is far too long for an at will all day long ability. to me that just seems like too much. However I do agree that 1 rnd is too short. I am looking at the 2 conditions now to see if they would better fit your suggested duration for Binding Blast.


Binding Blast: Target of your Aether blast must make Will save or be stunned for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Another that should be 1 min., or at least 1rd/2 levels. It's exemplary, after all!
Stunned is a combat killer debuff in my experience. Unless they are a monk, or creature you have taken them out of the combat for 2 rounds, or at least limited their attack to only one attack as opposed to a full attack

"A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).
Attackers receive a +4 bonus on attack rolls to perform combat maneuvers against a stunned opponent."

even at 1 rnd /2 levels at level 16 when you first get it you have taken them entirely out of the combat for 9 rounds, and before counting stat items or feats it has a respectable DC 24 (assuming 18 start and 4 boosts by level) meaning its a roughly 50% chance per attack even on a spell caster. I don't know how your groups run but in my experience combat is at worst wrapping up by then.

1 rnd might be too short. If anyone has any ideas on what would be acceptable, I am open to ideas, just trying to make the class balanced and viable. If a class looks overly powerful no one will allow it, and to me that seems like something that would ensure this never sees play time by anyone other than me.


Otherworldly Whispers(-): Gain bonus +3 on all Knowledge checks.

Here's where my PFS experience kicks in because in PFS, Knowledge is king. Making all knowledge skills class skills seems way too good. I would say choose any 3.


I do however agree with you about the knowledge skills, I have been thinking the same thing. Allowing it to be taken multiple times you'd only need maybe 2 more to get all knowledge's anyways.

Speaking of balance I recently statted up a character at level 16, I chose that level because most of my groups are done adventuring by then. I would like everyone to please take a look at both the Glaive and the Claw abilities. It's possible to get both and stacking the natural attacks with the iteratives from glaive can get quite insane when adding the 1/2 to all other natural attacks (speaking of which I need to edit the Claw ability as I accidentally let it have iteratives, which by PF rules is not how natural attacks work), however i know that its also possible to stack full damage as the rogue using the same trick. So I am really just asking if its too much and if so how to fix it?

I am gonna be posting in a different thread a call for some statted out characters at 16 to compare what I found for potential damage output, just to see so I will edit this to show that link if you guys are interested in helping out.

[JoseDeburo]

All valid points thompur, but i agree with arkangel that making them a minute is far too long. for the first two i would make it 1 round per 3 levels. for the stunning one i would make it start at a 1 round duration and increase it to 2 rounds at some later level. as to the knowledges, having all of them inclass would be just fine for two reasons. 1: the warlock only gets two plus their int. mod for skills. and 2: the warlock is charisma based essentially lowering the amount of skills they will have anyways and lowering the bonus to the knowledges. also i would be very interested in helping, arkangel.

[arkangel111]

@snowbluff sorry I missed your post before thompur's. What do you mean needs to be improved? I can't really do anything with just a statement like that, no offense. Do they need more /level? Need less /level? Need more options?

I have thought about as much as doubling the amount of invocations known, but then I feel it begins to step on the Sorc/Wiz feet, making them obsolete. The idea behind the original Warlock was, in my opinion, to get a magic user through the worlds largest dungeon. Because they can go all day they need a smaller list to choose from, representing their "focus". What if I increased the number of invocations by 3 more? one extra gained at each new invocation level, that would give a possible 4 of each type of invocation. But, would that be too much? At level 16 that would give them two 7-8th level spells all day long.

@JoseDeburo I welcome the help. For binding blast i could boost it by 1 rnd/4 levels above 16th. So @ 20 that would be 2 rnds and then you get into epic, which would likely have epic invocations that would make the exemplary ones obsolete anyways. I like the 1 rnd /3 levels, it seems just about right for those two conditions.

And for anyone interested here is the link to the call to arms post.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334151

I realize the stat array is different than the norm but I've never done the point buy and figured the higher starting stats really gives a feel for what the character might have if I had allowed items in the exercise.