Early access to Epic Feats- break it, please.

[Rakaydos]

So, for a "Fighter fix" I'm looking at granting access to the Epic feat list as a fighter ability, at level 12, so long as the fighter can meet any other qualifications for the feat. (skill ranks will usually be right out, but the attributes might be reasonable, especially after a few "Epic Stat" feats)

The fix also gets the Expert's skills (6+int per level, 10 class skills of choice + the fighter list) if it matters for qualification. And the fighter bonus feats can be used on any feat. (including the epic ones, once the fighter qualifies for them)

Time for a stress test- break this for me.

[Seerow]

Not going to be broken unless you somehow pull off Caster Level 21 and get Epic Spellcasting early.

Seriously Martial characters got hosed by ELH as badly as they did everywhere else in 3.X

[JaronK]

The best I can see with this is Epic Toughness for +30 hp... but that's not that incredible, honestly. IIRC all the other good ones require too many skill ranks to even be taken.

JaronK

[Karnith]

If you could meet the stat requirements (Dex 25, Wis 19), Exceptional Deflection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#exceptionalDeflection) and Infinite Deflection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#infiniteDeflection) would be good.

There's not that much else that's particularly good for noncasters, to be honest. A lot of epic feats are laughably bad.

[Hangwind]

Epic Leadership?

[Rakaydos]

Hmm. With Use Magic Device and Spellcraft both being potential class skills, a level 12 fighter/level x caster might be able to use Master Staff and Master Wand to ignore charges... if the wand is low enough he can cast from it normally...

[Silva Stormrage]

Epic Leadership?

Not really any more broken than regular leadership. Your cohort still can't be higher level than you and its hard to get 25 + leadership as a fighter too early.

[Phelix-Mu]

As noted, you will also have to ignore ability score and skill rank requirements. As long as you are bypassing requirements, however....

Permanent Emanation: This would be useful for a fighter. In my mind, a high-level fighter should be able to smell the presence of a spellcaster the way a predator can smell another predator. Spidey sense, if you will. If you want to restrict it, don't allow planar bubble, and aim more for divinations that allow detection.

Spell Stowaway: Let a fighter reassign the spell to stowaway with 10 minutes of meditation. A canny fighter is not ignorant of the tools of his enemy (or his allies) and will attune himself to allow opportunities where none existed before.

[Aligned-strike]: A caster generally masters some external force. While the caster is doing that, the fighter has looked inward, confronted mighty foes, and mastered the self. If a fighter stands for something, he may place his very soul behind the force of his blows. Allow the fighter to take an Aligned Strike feat that allows them to bypass opposing alignment-based DRs and deal extra damage against enemies with alignment subtypes (+2d6 per axis in opposition). A neutral fighter should be allowed access to material-bypassing qualities; a commitment to balance requires a special quality all of its own. I'd go for TN=Adamantine, but this is clearly an area that would require hammering out.

Blinding Speed: Change it so that a fighter has a pool of swift actions that may be combined with normal turns, with a maximum of (Dex mod/2) swift actions per round. Any standard attack or combat maneuver may be made as a swift action, or a move of 10'.

Exceptional/Infinite Deflection, Reflect Arrows: Rule it so that a fighter can bat single-target spells back at the caster. If it exists, the fighter can hit it, and if he can hit it, it shall bend to his will.

Evasion/Improved Evasion: Make them feats.

Mettle/Improved Mettle: Those need to be feats, too. A fighter is forged in warfare, and if you've played D&D, you may have noticed that magic features prominently in warfare. The arts of war belong to the fighter, and he shrugs off effects that would fell lesser men.

Hmm, this is fun.

[The Cat Goddess]

The best fix for a Fighter is a Warblade.

[Rakaydos]

As noted, you will also have to ignore ability score and skill rank requirements.

not really... most of the fighter-related epic feats need a 20 to 25 in a stat or two, with no skill requirements. If a fighter cant reach that at class level 12, he can probably reach it by class level 15 by throwing feats at "Epic (stat)"

[Phelix-Mu]

not really... most of the fighter-related epic feats need a 20 to 25 in a stat or two, with no skill requirements. If a fighter cant reach that at class level 12, he can probably reach it by class level 15 by throwing feats at "Epic (stat)"

Oh, right, I forgot about the Epic (stat) things. If those are on the table, then the fighter probably can hit the reqs. Note, though, as above posters noted, most of the stuff you typically need 25+ stats for are...not good. Disease Immunity, not good. DR feat, not great. Fast Healing, okay for utility/out-of-combat efficiency, amount needs bumped up. Energy Resistance, alright, as long as it stacks with equipment.

Some of the Dex stuff was okay, but much of it falls into the classic error of believing that power in combat is the biggest power in the game (it's not). Attacking more, faster, is something magic can start doing around level 5. Not worth an epic feat, even if that epic feat is going on a non-epic fighter.

The main problem is that the game holds fighters to a pretty realistic paradigm, but is totally the opposite for casters, who can tell reality to get warped.

[Chronos]

Distant Shot can be useful, if your environment is suitable. It won't come online until pretty close to epic, though, due to the 17 ranks in Spot needed.

Energy Resistance might be OK.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Additional Magic Item Space isn't bad.
Fast Healing (once) can be very useful.
Improved Combat Reflexes could be good on a Jack Be Quick build.
Overwhelming Critical and Devastating Critical will probably be favorites with a Falchion or similar.
Exceptional Deflection and Infinite Deflection would make you immune to ranged attacks when you're not flat-footed and have a hand free. Throw on Reflect Arrows and all ranged attacks against you are sent back on the attacker.

[Rakaydos]

Is there any epic feats in Complete Warrior that might add to this list?

[Just to Browse]

Swarm of Arrows makes mundane archers good again.

[nyjastul69]

... but much of it falls into the classic error of believing that power in combat is the biggest power in the game (it's not)...

There is no classic error here. No error at all, in fact. Play styles are not errors. The biggest power in the game can be combat. The biggest power in the game can be non-combat. What is your definition of power?

[Karnith]

Is there any epic feats in Complete Warrior that might add to this list?
Not really, no. The new epic feats that CWar adds are Combat Insight (which would be okay-to-good for a class that is Int-based), Epic Combat Expertise (which can't be taken until you have BAB +21 and is worse than the non-epic feat Allied Defense), Epic Sunder (which is bad), and Wield Oversized Weapon (which can't be taken until you have BAB +21 and is just a mild improvement on Monkey Grip).

The rest are just 3.5 versions of feats from the ELH.

[Phelix-Mu]

There is no classic error here. No error at all, in fact. Play styles are not errors. The biggest power in the game can be combat. The biggest power in the game can be non-combat. What is your definition of power?

Sorry, maybe I phrased my point poorly. Combat may or may not be a big deal. The problem is that full BAB and a bunch of combat feats were weighted so heavily as to constitute an entire class. Unless combat is a big deal, the average fighter is going to feel left behind. This can be fixed by devoting resource to out-of-combat stuff, but the rules make this pretty hard for the fighter to accomplish (bad skill list, bad skill points, bonus feats restricted to combat stuff).

Compare with almost any other class and it becomes clear that lack of versatility really was on display with the fighter. I think the big variety here is...Ride and Handle Animal? It's the rare fighter that will have the skill points to focus on being good at crafting, even though that is a pretty cool archetype. I mean...no Profession? Nope, the fighter is too busy swinging that sword to have a part-time job.

In short, my use of "power" was inaccurate. I should have spoken of undue focus and narrowness of scope in regard to the fighter. This is not to say that some tables can't have fighters and have fun; they can and do. It's just that the fighter is far too fragile in light of the range of play styles that are out there, in my mind. That's not "wrong," but I do like to consider how to make the archetype represented by a fighter more accessible and consistently enjoyable across a variety of campaigns and power levels.

[Rakaydos]

Sorry, maybe I phrased my point poorly. Combat may or may not be a big deal. The problem is that full BAB and a bunch of combat feats were weighted so heavily as to constitute an entire class. Unless combat is a big deal, the average fighter is going to feel left behind. This can be fixed by devoting resource to out-of-combat stuff, but the rules make this pretty hard for the fighter to accomplish (bad skill list, bad skill points, bonus feats restricted to combat stuff).

Compare with almost any other class and it becomes clear that lack of versatility really was on display with the fighter. I think the big variety here is...Ride and Handle Animal? It's the rare fighter that will have the skill points to focus on being good at crafting, even though that is a pretty cool archetype. I mean...no Profession? Nope, the fighter is too busy swinging that sword to have a part-time job.

In short, my use of "power" was inaccurate. I should have spoken of undue focus and narrowness of scope in regard to the fighter. This is not to say that some tables can't have fighters and have fun; they can and do. It's just that the fighter is far too fragile in light of the range of play styles that are out there, in my mind. That's not "wrong," but I do like to consider how to make the archetype represented by a fighter more accessible and consistently enjoyable across a variety of campaigns and power levels.

Which is why the FIRSt thing I did in this (relatively) simple fighter fix was Gestalt it with Expert. :p

[nyjastul69]

Sorry, maybe I phrased my point poorly. Combat may or may not be a big deal. The problem is that full BAB and a bunch of combat feats were weighted so heavily as to constitute an entire class. Unless combat is a big deal, the average fighter is going to feel left behind. This can be fixed by devoting resource to out-of-combat stuff, but the rules make this pretty hard for the fighter to accomplish (bad skill list, bad skill points, bonus feats restricted to combat stuff).

Compare with almost any other class and it becomes clear that lack of versatility really was on display with the fighter. I think the big variety here is...Ride and Handle Animal? It's the rare fighter that will have the skill points to focus on being good at crafting, even though that is a pretty cool archetype. I mean...no Profession? Nope, the fighter is too busy swinging that sword to have a part-time job.

In short, my use of "power" was inaccurate. I should have spoken of undue focus and narrowness of scope in regard to the fighter. This is not to say that some tables can't have fighters and have fun; they can and do. It's just that the fighter is far too fragile in light of the range of play styles that are out there, in my mind. That's not "wrong," but I do like to consider how to make the archetype represented by a fighter more accessible and consistently enjoyable across a variety of campaigns and power levels.

Thank you for the clarification. I don't agree, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[ericgrau]

Not really any more broken than regular leadership. Your cohort still can't be higher level than you and its hard to get 25 + leadership as a fighter too early.
Your followers, however, aren't capped. An army of 4th-7th level characters can be quite useful even at 12th+. For example by breaking action economy with spells or ranged attacks. Especially tricky stuff like web-spam and bola tripping, though damage stacking works too. Range helps keep them from dying, but if you're really paranoid you can use them and the lower level ones for obscene buff stacking instead.

Better for a cha focused paladin or cha X to Y trick builds though.

Pre-reqs for a lot of the feats are too high. If you could overlook those then stuff like automatic quicken on small caster dips could be really nice. And many of the non-caster feats too.

Ignoring the 20 feats with near-epic pre-reqs...

Stacking damage reduction feats is nice.
Epic toughness too ya.
Dire charge gives pounce.
Improved whirlwind attack and an ok move speed lets you nuke clumps without a need to charge. Requires whirlwind attack though, which is a lot of feats.
Terrifying Rage is a super low pre-req (grab extra rage) mass save or lose effect with a crazy high will save DC

[Gemini476]

...So what, Old Dragonwrought Kobold: The Class? It might help a bit, but it won't save the fighter. Maybe you could make the fighter better if he could ignore feat-based prerequisites on bonus feats, but otherwise MORE FEAT ACCESS just isn't enough.

It's better, sure, but it's nowhere near enough for T3. He might make Tier 4, though.