In a roundabout way, V killed Shojo!

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Think about this. V is the one who 'saved' Belkar from Miko, right as Miko was about to kill him. Now let us assume that Miko did kill Belkar, and that she lost all of her powers- most likely, she would not have been in that place to overhear Shojo's conversation with the OOtS. Therefore, by saving Belkar, V allowed Miko to overhear the conversation, and therefore killed Shojo. Let's all place blame on the androgynous Elf.

[Green Bean]

Think about this. V is the one who 'saved' Belkar from Miko, right as Miko was about to kill him. Now let us assume that Miko did kill Belkar, and that she lost all of her powers- most likely, she would not have been in that place to overhear Shojo's conversation with the OOtS. Therefore, by saving Belkar, V allowed Miko to overhear the conversation, and therefore killed Shojo. Let's all place blame on the androgynous Elf.

No! The fault is :roy:'s, for hiring V in the first place!

No! The fault is :roy:'s parents', for having :roy:!

No! The fault is the original Greenhilt, for spawning children!

No! The fault is the first humans, for breeding!

No! The fault is the gods' . They created the first humans!

Shojo was killed by the gods, and they're making :miko: fall to cover it up! Those monsters!!! :smallfurious:


(:smallbiggrin:)

[Setra]

Think about this. V is the one who 'saved' Belkar from Miko, right as Miko was about to kill him. Now let us assume that Miko did kill Belkar, and that she lost all of her powers- most likely, she would not have been in that place to overhear Shojo's conversation with the OOtS. Therefore, by saving Belkar, V allowed Miko to overhear the conversation, and therefore killed Shojo. Let's all place blame on the androgynous Elf.

Okay now you're just pulling a Miko.

[Amotis]

V should fall too!

[Kalir]

No no no. To be a fallen wizard, you'd have to intentionally do something so stupid that even Elan wouldn't consider it without a few kegs and a brain hemorrhage.

[Zeitgeist]

She probably wouldn't have lost her powers from killing evil Belkar. Shojo on the other hand was trying to save his entire city.

[AKA_Bait]

She probably wouldn't have lost her powers from killing evil Belkar. Shojo on the other hand was trying to save his entire city.

QFT

Killing Belkar would probably not have made her fall. Belkar is, as much as we all love him, a chaotic evil little halfling that was as far as could be discerned, trying to kill her at the time.

[Talya]

Think about this. V is the one who 'saved' Belkar from Miko, right as Miko was about to kill him. Now let us assume that Miko did kill Belkar, and that she lost all of her powers- most likely, she would not have been in that place to overhear Shojo's conversation with the OOtS. Therefore, by saving Belkar, V allowed Miko to overhear the conversation, and therefore killed Shojo. Let's all place blame on the androgynous Elf.

Killing Belkar would not have been an evil act...Belkar, being the chaotic evil murdering little bastard that he is, although lovable, deserves it, and was resisting lawful authority. Regrettable, but not evil. Had Miko beaten Belkar, she'd have not lost her powers.

[whitemane]

Killing Belkar would not have been an evil act...Belkar, being the chaotic evil murdering little bastard that he is, although lovable, deserves it, and was resisting lawful authority. Regrettable, but not evil. Had Miko beaten Belkar, she'd have not lost her powers.

But I think what you are forgetting is that at the time when Miko was about to strike Belkar down, he was beaten. He was weaponless and no longer a threat. Killing him when she could still take him into custody would almost certainly have caused her to fall.

[Talya]

Drizzt is your avatar. Therefore you are wrong! ;)

No, seriously, that's a decent point. I'm not sure...

[Setra]

Can no one make a thread these days without it reverting to a "Miko falling/Blackguard/something" thread?

[Glome]

It's debatable whether Miko would have fallen for killing Belkar. One hand he is a chaotic evil halfling who murdered a guard, attacked her earlier and needed to be brought to justice.

On the other hand he was defenseless when she was about to kill him. Furthermore, Miko was in a place where would have been trivial to bring him to justice and should have done so instead slaying him. Belkar certainly believed that her actions would cause her to fall and even V. didn't disagree with him, even though he would have taken pleasure in pointing more flaws in his plan.

Anyway, I could see it either way, with her falling or not falling had she killed Belkar. Either way, V's actions were probably part of the chain of causation leading to Shojo's murder, but in no way can you say that he had any actual responsibility towards Shojo being killed. In fact, it maybe that the chain of events set off by V. letting Belkar die would be much worse then V.'s actual actions. Only the oracle would have been able to answer that one unfortunetly.

[Finwe]

But I think what you are forgetting is that at the time when Miko was about to strike Belkar down, he was beaten. He was weaponless and no longer a threat. Killing him when she could still take him into custody would almost certainly have caused her to fall.


So far as she knew, he was simply knocked down. He'd already shown himself to be incredibly crafty and deceitful - how was she to know that he wasn't about to pull some sort of foul trick or take a potion and get back up and start fighting. They were also in a room full of innocents - how was she to know that he wouldn't get up and take a hostage, or start slaughtering people? For her to kill Belkar at that moment would have been completely in line with the Paladin's code. In addition, she DOES carry the authority to execute evildoers, and Belkar was a known murderer.

[teratorn]

She probably wouldn't have lost her powers from killing evil Belkar. Shojo on the other hand was trying to save his entire city.

Or he was trying to save his position and himself. If all creation was undone not even his soul would escape. Shojo doesn't look like someone who cares about other people that much. After all, he is behind Meat Loaf Day. Hinjo words about going to the temple were to the point, he made his family suffer with this senility thing. And all the lies and deceit: "You have brought disgrace to our name, Uncle".

[Awesome Girl]

Maybe if V didn't zap Miko, Durkon would have healed Belkar. Maybe, just maybe...

[Terraxos]

I suppose it's somewhat irrelevant to discuss it now; but in my view, Miko would have Fallen for killing Belkar. She had clearly won that fight; he was in no position to resist; and it would have been incredibly easy to arrest him and bring him to justice rather than killing him. (Remember how Miko was able to arrest the entire OOTS, without killing any of them? She could surely do the same to just Belkar!) Therefore, killing him would have been an Evil act.

Perhaps I'm wrong, and she could have kept her Paladinhood. But I don't think that makes sense from a narrative view, if nothing else; since if Miko wasn't going to Fall for killing Belkar, all the tension in #285 would have been for nothing! If Miko could have killed Belkar and still not Fallen, that strip loses most of its dramatic power.

[Azukar]

Well that's got to be the biggest clutch-at-straws I've seen in a while... You should get a job working for one of the midline newspapers, writing headlines like that one!

[Demented]

Miko should have been a Monk.
It's all the fault of Shojo for forcing her to be a Paladin!

[Golt]

I say blame Shojo's parents!
"Life is a sexually transmitted fatal disease."

[Haruki-kun]

The fault is Nale's for showing up and making Elan use up his favor from shojo.
No, wait! It's Roy's fault for starting the conversation!
No, it's Xykon's for forcing Miko to return quicky.
Elan's for using the favor, Roy's Father for helping Shojo..... Belkar for not Killing Miko when he had the chance, Celia for putting up a good defense, hinjo for this, Demon roaches for that......

Have you ever thought of.......I don't know..... BLAMING MIKO?
Seriously....... think we're looking too much into it.

[sethdarkwater]

Can no one make a thread these days without it reverting to a "Miko falling/Blackguard/something" thread?

All I can say its a sign of the times. Shame on all you people who keep starting these threads. Oh wait I'm one of them:smallbiggrin:

[dragongirl13]

HEY!!! Some people have V as a favorite character, here! :smallannoyed:

I think that since it was solely Miko's decision to kill Shojo, it was Miko's fault and Miko's alone.

[Kayura]

While one could argue that V inadvertently killed Shojo by zapping Miko and saving Belkar, it's no different than to say that GMC kills thousands of people each year because they just so happen to make vehicles that get caught in accidents.

Just my two cents

Kayura

[Demented]

Oh, it's obviously Belkar's fault, because he drove her mad in the first place.
...How else are we going to say that he eventually caused her death, then make his little halfling head go 'POP!' ?

[onikun86]

Let's all place blame on the androgynous Elf.
That's it, blame the elves. What are you, a Dwarf or Goblin or something?
I mean like... as in your race...not size or... never mind.

Just remember... everything happens because of many variables. What happened happened. I still believe that if anyone is responsible for killing Shojo its... um. Miko.

Um... one more point. We keep assuming that Belkar is evil. Even I do. But has anyone detected his alignment yet? No proof of anything yet. What if... gasp... he is chaotic neutral with deep-seated emotional issues?

[kriklaf]

Um... one more point. We keep assuming that Belkar is evil. Even I do. But has anyone detected his alignment yet? No proof of anything yet. What if... gasp... he is chaotic neutral with deep-seated emotional issues?


Yes, we do know he's evil:
here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6483&highlight=belkar+alignment),4th post down (from The Giant himself)

[Purre]

Giant killed Shojo! Think about it... if he had not created Shojo and Miko, and had them follow the paths they did, Miko would not have killed Shojo. :smallwink:

*runs and hides*