Cure Mod'rate Wounds

[Zmeoaice]

So near the end of this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0908.html), Durkula attempts to heal Roy, but fails. It appears that this is an honest mistake, and is used as a gag.

However in strip 946, we find out that Durkula has Durkon trapped in his body, and is more self-aware than we had previously realized. So I wonder whether Durkula really didn't know he would harm Roy, or if he did so for the giggles because he had the chance.

One one hand, Durkula does seem somewhat sadistic and he harbors no feelings towards Roy or the Order. On the other hand, harming one of his teammates for no reason doesn't seem very lawful, and it would likely be a waste of potions to restore those extra hit points (although this might be negligible). Durkula was fairly new, so he might have not known that his powers changed (but he seemed to know exactly what was going on in the next panel and even Roy knew that Durkula didn't have spontaneous healing spells anymore).

So what do you think? Was this a goof-up, or was Durkula being a jerkula?

[KillianHawkeye]

In hindsight, I'd say it was intentional. Done for the "evulz", as they say. But it's likely that we won't find out for certain. Considering the purchase price the last time the OOTS went potion shopping, it wouldn't be considered a big waste of resources.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think that the High Priest of Hel didn't know how to use his clerical powers and looked through Durkon' s memories for them. Since Durkon had been able to automatically convert spells to Cure spells, the High Priest of Hel assumed the same thing. It wasn't until after he zapped Roy that he realized his mistake. He tried to pass this off as an honest mistake.

[theNater]

It could be deliberate obfuscation. Durkula may well know that the spontaneous casting has changed, but Durkon probably wouldn't. So in order to pretend to still be Durkon, Durkula has to make the "mistake".

[Porthos]

It could be that it was intentional but done as a way to go "Whoops. Aren't I a silly duck, please accept my profuse apology."

Known throughout time as Playing the Fool and other such things.

If Durkon was playing that card, he can brush it off as an honest mistake and play up his inexperience to further cement Roy's trust.

If so, it shows how good of an actor/quick on his feet thinking wise this spirit is. Well that showing once again how bad Roy is at Sense Motive. :smalltongue:

[Edric O]

It may have been the very first example of Durkon's soul feeding Durkula false information (in this case, about using his divine spells). If so, it may be foreshadowing something more significant in the future.

[Procyonpi]

Who says Hel is lawful?

[Gift Jeraff]

It may have been the very first example of Durkon's soul feeding Durkula false information (in this case, about using his divine spells). If so, it may be foreshadowing something more significant in the future.

I'm thinking something like this as well, but not necessarily false info so much as missing details. The vampire searched Durkon's memories for the answer to "How do I heal my allies?" and the answer was "Spontaneously convert another spell." Technically true...for living Durkon.

[Dire Moose]

Since Durkon had been able to automatically convert spells to Cure spells, the High Priest of Gel assumed the same thing.

:durkon: "Oh, an' me beard be lookin' a lot shinier now."

[Jaxzan Proditor]

:durkon: "Oh, an' me beard be lookin' a lot shinier now."
:smallredface: Oops. I hate my Kindle's autocorrect sometimes.

[Pokonic]

I think it was an mistake on the part of the vampire. Even if one ignores Durkula's look of surprise, a creature like it would probably know better then to hurt it's allies in the middle of a battle.

[Dire Moose]

It may have been the very first example of Durkon's soul feeding Durkula false information (in this case, about using his divine spells). If so, it may be foreshadowing something more significant in the future.

Why would Durkon want Roy to get hurt, though?

[oppyu]

Why would Durkon want Roy to get hurt, though?
Yeah, I don't see Durkon intentionally leading not-Durkon to intentionally harm his teammate. Put me down for 'Didn't know how to cast healing spells, scanned Durkon's memories without conscious input from Durkon and thought he could spontaneously cast them.'

[dps]

Who says Hel is lawful?

Yeah, unless I've missed or forgotten something, I see no reason to make that assumption. Actually, if I had to guess, I'd say that Hel is a Neutral Evil god. Of course, even if my guess is correct, by RAW her high priest could still be LE, but, again, I see no basis for making that assumption.

[Porthos]

I think it was an mistake on the part of the vampire. Even if one ignores Durkula's look of surprise, a creature like it would probably know better then to hurt it's allies in the middle of a battle.

Yeah, he'd rather sit back and do nothing. :smallwink:

Honestly, I don't think he cared that much if his new found 'allies' lived or died. If they did, great. He can continue to use them. If not? Well, just have to find some other way back home.

It was only when the danger got a more... personal that he changed his tune.

I think this blasé attitude helps explains why he didn't risk his neck during the actual fight once he released Spiky and didn't have low-level mooks to dominate anymore.

[Edric O]

Why would Durkon want Roy to get hurt, though?
Well, he might have thought that causing Durkula to make a suspicious mistake when he really should have known better could serve to warn Roy that Durkula is not Durkon. If so, hurting Roy would be an acceptable price to pay.

[quasit]

I'm leaning more to a "of course i'll cure you my human ally for now: done... ah damn you living ones! Why did I forget it works on reverse?" sort of mistake. Could be anything, though.

[Copperdragon]

In hindsight, I have the impression it was done on purpose, in an attempt to kill of Roy while he had a chance. It's not impossible it was an honest mistake of a Newbie Vampire but so far it seems a bit less likely.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'll assume some level of competence unless proven otherwise.

[Kish]

In hindsight, I have the impression it was done on purpose, in an attempt to kill of Roy while he had a chance. It's not impossible it was an honest mistake of a Newbie Vampire but so far it seems a bit less likely.
If he wanted to kill off Roy, why wouldn't he just accept Nale's offer? (He could always betray Nale later.) Or kill him while he was lying there helpless in front of the High Priest, instead of saying "I also haf potions." His bid to infiltrate the Order would be a lot harder if it took the form of, "I just accidentally killed my best friend, but I want to help ye, Haley and Elan! Get this halfling off me!"

[Socksy]

I'm leaning more to a "of course i'll cure you my human ally for now: done... ah damn you living ones! Why did I forget it works on reverse?" sort of mistake. Could be anything, though.

Yeah, I agree here, genuine mistake on the part of the priest controlling Durkula. Is he using Rebuke Undead or is his spirit actually in the vampire itself?

[King of Nowhere]

I see no reason why durkula would have wanted to kill roy. would have been a terrible tactical move. you don't shot your allies in the middle of the battle just cause you became evil. team tarquin still had good reasons to want to kill durkula, and oots had good reasons to help him. so, I will assume it's an honest mistake (and mostly done for the sake of a gag) until someone can come up with a convincing expalantion of any tactical advantage durkula would have gained that way. An explanation also including the fact that he then gave potions to roy instead of finishing him off.
Another possibility is durkon misleading durkula with incomplete information in an attempt to give a hint to his teammates.

[mikeejimbo]

If their potions are limited and next chance of resupply distant, perhaps he could have wanted to slowly dwindle their resources.

Of course, then he found out that Julio was swimming in them.

[Emulgator]

Durkon always channeling positive energy, seems like a most possible explanation to me, since Darkon said Durkon can't resist providing memories. If it was a mislead, he'd propably report it, since he exists to serve.

[luc258]

I think it was an honest mistake.
As we have seen in 946 Durkula has been working on getting accepted into the group. Harming them would harm his goals and I don't have the impression that he would jeopardize his goals for a little extra evil for the lulz.
He is not Xykon.

[WindStruck]

Anyone wonder about this comic?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0077.html

Does Durkon not really have an accent saying that, or was the comic simply not fully developed yet?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Anyone wonder about this comic?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0077.html

Does Durkon not really have an accent saying that, or was the comic simply not fully developed yet?
It's possible that the High Priest of Hel made a mistake in the accent.

However, it should be noted that Durkon's accent has not always been consistent.

[quasit]

Yeah, I agree here, genuine mistake on the part of the priest controlling Durkula. Is he using Rebuke Undead or is his spirit actually in the vampire itself?

I'm afraid you lost me. Are you asking how is Durkula keeping Durkon's spirit in place?
If so, I think it's just Durkula having Durkon 'soulbinded' within.
Could you please explain further?

[Shale]

I think that the High Priest of Hel didn't know how to use his clerical powers and looked through Durkon' s memories for them. Since Durkon had been able to automatically convert spells to Cure spells, the High Priest of Hel assumed the same thing. It wasn't until after he zapped Roy that he realized his mistake. He tried to pass this off as an honest mistake.

This is how I read the scene too. The High Priest has no actual experience being a cleric and has to consult his host's memories for things like "how do I heal?" - especially since he hadn't cast any spells yet at that point.

[ChaosArchon]

In my opinion don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity (or lack of information at least). He had only been a vampire for a bit so most likely he wasn't used to healing people as a vamp before.

[Tiiba]

The vampire looked pretty surprised about the Inflict. So quite definitely unintentional.

[Rakoa]

The vampire looked pretty surprised about the Inflict. So quite definitely unintentional.

He also pulled off a pretty convincing Dwarven accent.

[Tiiba]

Thar hardly tha same!

[INoKnowNames]

I'd like to shed a little light on this situation:

Roy probably has few ranks in Spellcraft or Sense Motive.

Since the very first strip, Durkon's had his stereotypical dwarven accent.

Durkon did not mess up the speaking of Cure Moderate Wounds the first time we've read him casting it (Go, Team Cleric!), and the importance of casting spells properly is so emphasized, Mass Death Ward was somewhat messed up the first time through because his employers didn't recognize it.

Durkula probably has good ranks in Spellcraft and Bluff.

With the additional pressure of being his best friend who just died, the gate exploding, seeing Xykon and being unable to do jack about it, almost being killed by Red Cloak, and then the Sand Elemental being a direct threat, Roy's got more than enough on his plate than to try to figure out what was wrong right then and there.

I hereby submit that he was trying to seem more like Durkon, and gambling that Roy would expect that Durkon wouldn't have realized that he inflicts instead of cures, at least right away.

.... adding to it a bit, I wonder if Durkon would have immediately known he inflicts instead of cures, given that he has self-admitted he doesn't have lots of ranks in K-Religion?

So yeah, throw my hand into the "Durkula's a good bluffer" pile.

[Socksy]

I'm afraid you lost me. Are you asking how is Durkula keeping Durkon's spirit in place?
If so, I think it's just Durkula having Durkon 'soulbinded' within.
Could you please explain further?

Is the vampire itself the High Priest of Hel, or is the vampire Durkon-but-LE, and being Commanded by the High Priest's Rebuke Undead ability?

[Domino Quartz]

Is the vampire itself the High Priest of Hel, or is the vampire Durkon-but-LE, and being Commanded by the High Priest's Rebuke Undead ability?

The vampire itself is Durkon's corpse, being controlled by the Lawful Evil spirit known as the High Priest of Hel, who is also keeping Durkon's Lawful Good spirit prisoner. That's how I understand it, at least.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The vampire itself is Durkon's corpse, being controlled by the Lawful Evil spirit known as the High Priest of Hel, who is also keeping Durkon's Lawful Good spirit prisoner. That's how I understand it, at least.
This makes the most sense to me. This is how I understand it to be: essentially there is a body with two souls inhabiting it. One, the High Priest of Hel, is in control. The High Priest was born in Hel's realm and took control of the body, presumably when Malak vamped Durkon. He is imprisoning the other soul, Durkon. The body is the vampire

[DaggerPen]

:durkon: "Oh, an' me beard be lookin' a lot shinier now."

I laughed.

[quasit]

Is the vampire itself the High Priest of Hel, or is the vampire Durkon-but-LE, and being Commanded by the High Priest's Rebuke Undead ability?

Probably the former, with Durkon's soul bound within to (pretty much against his will) provide valuable info; as I understood it.

[Der_DWSage]

I'm leaning towards 'unintentional,' myself.

Can't say I know why exactly Durkula has thrown his lot in with the OotS, but if he wanted Roy ended there...all he would've had to do is not offer up his stockpile of potions immediately after accidentally hurting him.

[konradknox]

Leaning towards unintentional. HPH was learning how to function in the new body of a good cleric. He has a lot riding on his mission, so I think he wouldn't screw around for the lolz.

[ross]

Why does cure moderate wounds harm Roy?

Also, what does Durkon mean by converting spells? I thought clerics always had to prepare their spells? Or do they work like sorcerers?

[Domino Quartz]

Why does cure moderate wounds harm Roy?

Also, what does Durkon mean by converting spells? I thought clerics always had to prepare their spells? Or do they work like sorcerers?

"Cure Moderate Wounds" doesn't harm Roy. The HPoH wasn't using Cure Moderate Wounds - he was using Inflict Moderate wounds either by mistake or on purpose but pretending it was by mistake.
EDIT: Also, this thread is well over a year old.
EDIT 2: Apparently, while clerics do have to prepare their spells, they can spontaneously convert them to either "Inflict" or "Cure" spells as they need to, depending on their alignment (Good -> "Cure", Evil -> "Inflict", Neutral -> either one).

[DemonRoach]

So what do you think? Was this a goof-up, or was Durkula being a jerkula?

I think this is classic over examination. It was a joke inserted for readability reasons.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I think this is classic over examination. It was a joke inserted for readability reasons.

Also, I don't think the answer really changes anything about Durkula. We know he's enough of a sadist to hurt Roy on purpose if it won't blow his cover, and we know he's dependent enough on Durkon's memories to make a mistake like that. Neither option really spawns a lot of speculation about what could happen later on.

[Quild]

I think HPoH did it on purpose in order to lure Roy into the idea that he indeed was Durkon. Because Durkon would have made this mistake.

HPoH choose "Cure Moderate Wounds" and not an higher spell even if Roy was quite injured, simply because this spell wouldn't kill Roy. 2d8+10 damage is something Roy can handle at this point.

[PoeticDwarf]

I think that the High Priest of Hel didn't know how to use his clerical powers and looked through Durkon' s memories for them. Since Durkon had been able to automatically convert spells to Cure spells, the High Priest of Hel assumed the same thing. It wasn't until after he zapped Roy that he realized his mistake. He tried to pass this off as an honest mistake.

I think this is true too, sounds the more logical, but we probably won't know for sure.

[Haruki-kun]

The Winged Mod: Thread Necromancy.