[PF/3.X] Teaching them playboys a lesson (but what makes a playboy?)

[The Insanity]

There's this male character. He has this "playboy" attitude. He's very handsome, talented and somewhat successful (by which I mean low level). He thinks he's the best thing that happened to womankind. And, eh, he kinda is :smalltongue:. He's not really bad to women. Any girl that catches his interest is guaranteed to have a good time. But he kinda borders on narcissism and could quickly get worse than this, true "enemy" to women.
Well, how could a strong (as in personality, not necessarily physical strength), beautiful and equally talented woman "teach him a lesson", so to speak?
I don't yet know who that girl will be (fluff or mechanics-wise). Maybe a friend who doesn't want him to become a bad man. Maybe just a feminist that doesn't like his attitude. Maybe something else. Any ideas?
I'm talking about one character, but actually it's a few of them, so I'm looking for as many ideas as possible. And the "strong girl" will be a PC in a solo advanture. The player doesn't yet know what he will play, so I'm looking for ideas that I could pitch to her.

EDIT: Assume that the "lesson" is mostly for the guy's benefit. So nothing drastic, cruel or permanent.

EDIT 2: TL;DR for confused: A female PC in a gimmicky solo game will be setting some NPC womanizers straight. Ideas how?

[(Un)Inspired]

The curser is a cleric tired of curing him of "social" diseases.

Bestow Curse spell for permanent impotence.

[The Insanity]

I didn't really mean cursing him. And note it's "teaching a lesson", not "taking revenge", "crippling", "pranking", "torturing", etc. But I guess some minor curse could be useful. Belt of Gender Switch? :smallamused:

[Calimehter]

Just make a female version of the PC with the same basic skill set and M.O. and have them interact with the PC or his allies.

Nothing hoists one like one's own petard.

[kroonermanblack]

Just make a female version of the PC with the same basic skill set and M.O. and have them interact with the PC or his allies.

Nothing hoists one like one's own petard.

I doubt that will solve the problem. If it's the PLAYER, talk to the player. If it's the character...talk to the player anyway.

This whole topic makes me feel greasy and dirty, like it's a jezebel story or something.

[The Insanity]

Just make a female version of the PC with the same basic skill set and M.O. and have them interact with the PC or his allies.

Nothing hoists one like one's own petard.
Um... the PC is the female. :smallconfused:


I doubt that will solve the problem. If it's the PLAYER, talk to the player. If it's the character...talk to the player anyway.

This whole topic makes me feel greasy and dirty, like it's a jezebel story or something.
No one is forcing you to read or post here.

[Sith_Happens]

The old "I'd like you to meet your child" twist seems applicable here.

[Coidzor]

There's this male character. He has this "playboy" attitude. He's very handsome, talented and somewhat successful (by which I mean low level). He thinks he's the best thing that happened to womankind. And, eh, he kinda is :smalltongue:. He's not really bad to women. Any girl that catches his interest is guaranteed to have a good time. But he kinda borders on narcissism and could quickly get worse than this, true "enemy" to women.
Well, how could a strong (as in personality, not necessarily physical strength), beautiful and equally talented woman "teach him a lesson", so to speak?
I don't yet know who that girl will be (fluff or mechanics-wise). Maybe a friend who doesn't want him to become a bad man. Maybe just a feminist that doesn't like his attitude. Maybe something else. Any ideas?
I'm talking about one character, but actually it's a few of them, so I'm looking for as many ideas as possible. And the "strong girl" will be a PC in a solo advanture. The player doesn't yet know what he will play, so I'm looking for ideas that I could pitch to her.

EDIT: Assume that the "lesson" is mostly for the guy's benefit. So nothing drastic, cruel or permanent.

Well, the first thing to do is identify the problem(s) more clearly than you have and then either identify the motive of the woman to improve him rather than destroy him or scare him off or figure out who the female character is supposed to be in terms of personality, station in life, and relationship with the character in question.

Is she a sister? His mother? An aunt? Great-great-great-great-great-great Immortal Grandwossname? An ex-girlfriend? An employer? A (former) coworker? A completely random stranger that gets a bug up her ass about him after encountering him when part of a rival adventuring party in the same tavern?

[Stoneback]

My apologies in advance if the pronouns are mixed up. I'm a little confused. But the solution does insist upon itself.

Being flirtatious may give him a reputation; a reputation even a mundane gang of thieves may be interested in.

And if he has a standard MO, then the latest NPC conquest may instead be bait for a cunning heist.

Make sure to give her an alternate PC to play while the "real her" is being relieved of his possessions and maybe his life.

At any rate, it may allow you to introduce a competing gang or adventuring party to use as a recurring foil or straight-up enemy.

[The Insanity]

Well, the first thing to do is identify the problem(s) more clearly than you have
What's there to identify?


and then either identify the motive of the woman to improve him rather than destroy him or scare him off or figure out who the female character is supposed to be in terms of personality, station in life, and relationship with the character in question.
There's no info on that and there won't be for some time. I'd like to work on some ideas in the meantime.


Then why will the PC care that someone is a womanizer?
Because that's the "adventure's" plot that we agreed on together? We like unconventional games. Sue me. :P

[The Insanity]

And if he has a standard MO, then the latest NPC conquest may instead be bait for a cunning heist.
How does that teach him a lesson? It's more of an inconvenience or straight out traumatic event than a lesson. :smallconfused:


Make sure to give her an alternate PC to play while the "real her" is being relieved of his possessions and maybe his life.
... The PC is the female, the "strong girl" from OP.

It seems something is not clear here. The PC is the female that will be teaching a few womanizers a lesson (EDIT) but they're not a completely lost cause.

[Stoneback]

Solution 2: Social pressure

Oh, you laugh!

But in a setting like the normal medieval Europe, you don't need a single NPC to point anything out. Word travels. People gossip. Even between villages.

All of a sudden, nobody will rent this character a room at the inn. Nobody will fix her weapons. Nobody will sell her potions- and that goes for her associates, as well.

The Exchequer's man is suddenly very interested in your latest loot haul. Good temples close their doors against you, or allow you to come in, as soon as you finish an Atonement quest.

In time, the next love object will have a royal father who will become really unhappy when he hears about all this. And then things get really hairy.

[Coidzor]

What's there to identify?

The actual problems and flaws of the men who are to be served their comeuppance, as your OP seemed to vacillate on the justness of them being punished. Also, why the hell the character would care.


There's no info on that and there won't be for some time. I'd like to work on some ideas in the meantime.

Because that's the "adventure's" plot that we agreed on together? We like unconventional games. Sue me. :P

Then you probably need to beef up the perfidy of the schmucks in question so that there's clear avenues for drama and useful suggestions to be made if nothing else. Because you can't just say "because that's the game we're playing," with no reason for them to be in focus much like you can't have a satisfying bad guy if they aren't actually demonstrated to be bad.

You need to at least have a go-to backup plan for creating the necessary antagonism if the player's not going to supply one.


How does that teach him a lesson? It's more of an inconvenience or straight out traumatic event than a lesson. :smallconfused:

Traumatic event, lesson. Tomato, Tomato. :smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

If this bothers you out of character, deal with it out of character.

[Stoneback]

Okay. All of that was predicated on the assumption that the character is a PC or allied with the PCs in a substantial way.

[Malimar]

I don't think it's entirely clear to everybody that the male womanizer character is an NPC. (I'm not 100% sure, myself, but it would seem to account for most of the confusion.)

[The Insanity]

The actual problems and flaws of the men who are to be served their comeuppance, as your OP seemed to vacillate on the justness of them being punished.
Sorry, but that's still in the works. If you can't give any ideas without it then it's a shame, I hoped for something that could get my creative juices going.


Also, why the hell the character would care.
Depends on the player.


Because you can't just say "because that's the game we're playing," with no reason for them to be in focus
As I said above, the reason will be provided by the player, because it wholly dependent on the PC.


You need to at least have a go-to backup plan for creating the necessary antagonism if the player's not going to supply one.

He will, just not now.


If this bothers you out of character, deal with it out of character.
There is no problem OOC. :smallconfused:

[Zweisteine]

I'd recommend finding someone you know who is a(n agressive) feminist, and asking them. Give examples of what the character would do, and ask how they'd deal with such things.

[The Insanity]

No such person.

Also sorry for any confusion. It seemed clear to me. :smallfrown:

[Red Fel]

Let me start with the typical disclaimer of IC consequences for IC actions and OOC consequences for OOC actions. If it's an IC thing, there's a fine line between "an amusing sideplot" and "teaching a character a lesson," and I'd check with the player before employing the latter. If it's an OOC issue, talk to the player.

Now, on with ideas.

First, I like the one suggested above, the "Say hello to your adorable child" gag. It's dark, it's vicious, and in all likelihood the probability of illegitimate children (plural) is likely to have minimal impact on the overall campaign.

Another option, that functions as both an adventure hook and a nasty little trick is to have a Succubus-style Fey - he seduces a Fey in disguise (or thinks he does), and is now subject to a Geas or similar effect to perform a task for her. Which means adventure time, come on, grab your friends!

A slightly more vicious option is the "too much of a good thing" gag, also known as "be careful what you wish for." Wait until the character gets to a reasonably large city. Let him his trade in a bar. Mention that there are multiple attractive ladies there, and see if he takes the bait. Let him successfully seduce them all. Fade to black, and explain simply that they are "terribly gratified."

For as long as the party remains in the city, this character now has a reputation. Women will look at him, blush at him, wink at him. Every time he beds one, his reputation will grow. The conduct of the ladies on the street will change from giggles and whispers to more aggressive pursuit. If he continues, their pursuit will escalate. They will chase him down the street. Women will wait outside of the inn and break into his apartment. Women will get into brawls over him - and physically attack him. Their husbands, lovers, and others will become actively hostile towards him, if not physically violent.

Give him exactly what he wants, in abundance. See if he can ever stomach it again.

EDIT: And I just re-read that you want a female PC to teach him a lesson. I suppose she could instigate any of these things. If she's a Druid, let her contact a Fey and make this arrangement - they always love a good prank. If she's a face-role, like a Bard or Rogue, let her rally the women of the city, spread rumors of this character's "abilities," and generally create a ruckus in that way. Basically, Diplomacy is a skill that can be used to brutally mess with this guy's head.

[zlefin]

TerraOblivion on this board might be able to provide what you're looking for.

[Alent]

Personally, in this situation, I would just have your PC work to convince him to form a devoted, lasting relationship with a single woman only, and get him to reinforce it by accepting a geas contract. (since he's such a playboy)

Then afterwards, it's just his own fault for not reading the fine print that specified the woman was his mother, and the relationship was as a devoted son.

Toss some heartwarming aesop at the end when the geas wears off and call it a day, move on to the actual adventure.

[The Insanity]

move on to the actual adventure.
This is the adventure.

[Alefiend]

The problem (or at least one of them) as I see it is that we don't understand your male NPC the way you do. You're essentially asking us to resolve an IC conflict that your player is going to have with you.

Instead of taking guesses at what an as-yet nonexistent PC can do to straighten him out, we—and, more importantly, you—should be figuring out what motivates the NPC, and what would cause him to rethink his lifestyle.

Once you have some of that, it becomes a question of how the PC will make this happen based on her build and personality.

[The Insanity]

You're essentially asking us to resolve an IC conflict that your player is going to have with you.
Why a conflict with me? :smallconfused: And I don't need you to resolve a conflict. I need you to give some ideas how this "conflict" could be potentially resolved. No in-debt analysis or anything fancy like that. Just some general ideas you might think off.

As for the NPCs, I can give two rough concepts that I just whipped up:
One guy is a half-orc Witch of great strength and toughness that comes from a society where strength is very attractive to women and as one of the tribe's shamans he commands some amount of respect, although he's still just an apprentice.
Second guy is an incredibly charismatic and quite smart half-elf and he knows it. He has a silver tongue and devilishly charming looks going for him which make women flock to him whenever he speaks. Class probably Bard.

[Vanitas]

I think you need to have them do something bad first. From your descriptions, both just seem promiscuous, which is not really a bad thing, regardless of gender.

Do they objectify woman? If they do, then that's an easy target.

Also, I think people are confused about who is the PC here because coming up with a way to "teach X is a lesson" is the player's job. If you tell her how she is going to do it, what does the player get to do?

[The Insanity]

I think you need to have them do something bad first.
Well, duh. Of course they did something bad. There would be no point in teaching lessons otherwise. :smallconfused: I just noted that they're not chauvinistic monsters as to not give people any wrong ideas about them. They might have simply broken a few maiden hearts, for example.


Do they objectify woman? If they do, then that's an easy target.
If it's gonna make it easier for you then you can assume that.


Also, I think people are confused about who is the PC here because coming up with a way to "teach X is a lesson" is the player's job. If you tell her how she is going to do it, what does the player get to do?
I want to have some ideas in case she'll run out of hers or won't be able to come up with any. That's all. What if she asks, in-character, a friend for suggestions? Would be nice to have more than 1-2, because she might not like some of them.
And I explained who the PC is.

[weckar]

Just for transparency: Only in your third paragraph did I discover that the playboys are in fact NOT the PCs.

[Jack_Simth]

I want to have some ideas in case she'll run out of hers or won't be able to come up with any. That's all. What if she asks, in-character, a friend for suggestions? Would be nice to have something more than 1-2, because she might not like some of them.
Then you need to think about the motivations and views of the asked friends.

Let's do the corner alignments....

I'm going to make some assumptions, here.
1) The Good/Evil axis is about people, and the womaniser in question isn't hurting the ladies - he's not abusing them, not crushing them emotionally, not giving them promises he doesn't intend to keep (that the girls then rely on to their detriment) et cetera. Basically, that outside of a rules-based paradigm, he's not hurting anything.
2) That there Law/Chaos axis is about rules, regs, and societal norms... and there is a widely-accepted social construct that the womaniser's behaviour violates. However, there's no actual law against it, nor any specific punishment.

LG: "Well... I don't like it, but as long as he's not hurting anyone, there's really not much to do other than keep an eye on him and make sure everyone knows his habits."
CG: "I... really don't see the problem. It's not like he's hurting these girls, is he? Just good times all around, isn't it? But I suppose I am always up for some good-natured pranks... ooh, maybe set him up with the whole 'fake child' thing?"
LE: "Obviously, he should be castrated. However, we'll need to find a suitable pretext."
CE: "Oooh... maybe we can turn him into a girl and get another Romeo after him... or possibly just get him into some hag's harem, either way, see how he likes being on the other end."

[Drachasor]

Short of mind-altering magic or strapping an device to shock him when he does something wrong, there are not a lot of general options here.

A big problem is that we don't understand what motivates this person. If he's a sociopath, then you really aren't going to be able to do much of anything. He doesn't care if he hurts people; he only cares about himself. And society is too large for him not to find plenty of victims, so you can't make it against his own best interests in all likelihood.

Let's assume he's not. Then he's going to have other motivations. Ultimately you have to show him that his casual behavior towards women conflicts with something else he wants that involves caring about others -- perhaps being a good person, perhaps being able to respect himself, finding a meaningful relationship, etc. How you do that depends on the whatever else is motivating him. Likewise it also depends on his motivation for treating women in this way.

But if you think some sort of artificial "lesson" is likely to work without his cooperation, then you're likely mistaken unless the player wants it to work. You'll just piss him off and he'll blame the person actually responsible. People are remarkable resistant to changing themselves. Ultimately if he doesn't think it is a problem, you don't have a lot of options.

[deuxhero]

Griddle of Masculinity/Femininity and whatever method (beguiling gift) to make them wear it.

[Drachasor]

Griddle of Masculinity/Femininity and whatever method (beguiling gift) to make them wear it.

Let's say a woman thought you were treating women unfairly and did this to you. How would you react? Learn your "lesson" or be pissed off at her?

[The Insanity]

Just for transparency: Only in your third paragraph did I discover that the playboys are in fact NOT the PCs.
Um... did I write somewhere that the playboys are PCs? :smallconfused: If they were, I would say so. But I didn't, so lets not make assumptions.


But if you think some sort of artificial "lesson" is likely to work without his cooperation, then you're likely mistaken unless the player wants it to work. You'll just piss him off and he'll blame the person actually responsible. People are remarkable resistant to changing themselves. Ultimately if he doesn't think it is a problem, you don't have a lot of options.
First - I don't know what's this talk about sociopaths.
Second - I'm mistaken? I think I made it clear that it's the plot of the adventure. That should make it clear that the lesson has a decent chance of being effective, otherwise what's even the point of making it a goal of the game? :smallconfused: All I wanted were some suggestions.

[The Insanity]

Let's say a woman thought you were treating women unfairly and did this to you. How would you react? Learn your "lesson" or be pissed off at her?
Well, that's something that the player will find out in the game. That's the point of it all, to see what will happen. When I'll have the NPCs ironed out and the PC will be done, the player will be able to fine-tune his ideas, obviously, but I'm asking for general suggestions so there's something to work upon, some basis that the player could potentially expand on.

[Alent]

Um... did I write somewhere that the playboys are PCs? :smallconfused: If they were, I would say so.

Your information flow was very disjointed and difficult to follow. As presented, it was implied that the actions of a playboy were causing problems, and you needed ways it could be fixed. Without specifying OOC/IC/Plot/etc, it left readers to infer "problem player".

Everything after that was poor recognition of need to damage control on your part, but you did more or less get it cleared up by the second edit, which happened before I saw the thread. The misconception had already been created, and it just took some time to straighten out (And will continue to happen due to drive by skimming and such.)

Aside from that, You realize this is like, a B-list sidestory plot at best, right?

If he's hitting on girls because he's sociopathic, the Heal spell removes insanity.

If he's hitting on girls because it's just his lifestyle, baleful polymorph will bring new definition to puppydog love.

[Drachasor]

First - I don't know what's this talk about sociopaths.


Because the behavior you've described so far doesn't contradict how a sociopath might behave. I am merely giving ONE possible sort of person that might behave this way and how it would cause immense problems if you try to reform them. This is to emphasize that it is the other characteristics that make up their personality that you must use.


Second - I'm mistaken? I think I made it clear that it's the plot of the adventure. That should make it clear that the lesson has a decent chance of being effective, otherwise what's even the point of making it a goal of the game? :smallconfused: All I wanted were some suggestions.

So basically any plan you come up with will work? Is that what you are saying? Then just punch him in the face until it cures him. You can just handwave it as realigning his neurons or that you represent angry women if you want. Or if you want it to take longer, then you could go on a quest for a sense of decency for him.

I thought you were looking for somewhat realistic ideas. But if the other player is going to ok any idea and make it work then that doesn't matter.

If you want realistic ideas than "he hits on girls and sleeps around casually" is not sufficient to formulate a realistic plan. Why he does it isn't 100% clear. How he might come to see that as a problem isn't at all clear (we know nothing else about him).

Curse him to become a girl? He'll just go get that removed ASAP and probably hate every second of it -- there's no reason he'd learn a lesson from it. That's C-list movie plotting that doesn't actually make sense.

[The Insanity]

As presented, it was implied that the actions of a playboy were causing problems, and you needed ways it could be fixed. Without specifying OOC/IC/Plot/etc, it left readers to infer "problem player".
Well, for next time lets just not assume stuff I didn't say and everything will be okay. If I'll have a problem player, I'll say I have a problem player, assuming I wouldn't be able to deal with an OOC issue myself. I might be clueless about stuff, but talking with people never was a problem.


Aside from that, You realize this is like, a B-list sidestory plot at best, right?
Your point?


If he's hitting on girls because he's sociopathic, the Heal spell removes insanity.
I don't know where this came from.

[weckar]

Um... did I write somewhere that the playboys are PCs? :smallconfused: If they were, I would say so. But I didn't, so lets not make assumptions. "Character" and "PC" are often used interchangeably around here.

[The Insanity]

So basically any plan you come up with will work? Is that what you are saying?
Not even remotely.


I thought you were looking for somewhat realistic ideas. But if the other player is going to ok any idea and make it work then that doesn't matter.
What other player? The only player will try some ideas. Whether they work or not will depend what he does, how he does it and maybe a few rolls.


If you want realistic ideas than "he hits on girls and sleeps around casually" is not sufficient to formulate a realistic plan.
Well, sorry, but that's all I have for now. Any help, even in fleshing out this NPCs (although I didn't even ask for that), will be nice.


Curse him to become a girl? He'll just go get that removed ASAP and probably hate every second of it -- there's no reason he'd learn a lesson from it. That's C-list movie plotting that doesn't actually make sense.
Maybe it'll work, or maybe it won't. Maybe he'll hate it, or maybe he'll actually like it. Who knows. We'll definitely won't know if we won't try. Don't dismiss other people's games just because you don't like it or it's not to your standards. :smallannoyed:

[The Insanity]

"Character" and "PC" are often used interchangeably around here.
Where I come from, "PC" means "PC" and "character" means "character". Sorry.

[weckar]

Fact is, there is nothing to change behaviour like that permanently that doesn't do temporary or permanent harm. Mind control, torture, solitary confinement... It's a big step to move away from something that in essence does not have downsides.

[The Insanity]

Fact is, there is nothing to change behaviour like that permanently that doesn't do temporary or permanent harm. Mind control, torture, solitary confinement... It's a big step to move away from something that in essence does not have downsides.
There's always, oh I don't know, roleplay? This thing that's a big part of D&D? :P

[weckar]

yeah. So you want the playboy character to roleplay that they have changed? Then what's the point?

[Drachasor]

Not even remotely.

Then the following isn't productive:


Maybe it'll work, or maybe it won't. Maybe he'll hate it, or maybe he'll actually like it. Who knows. We'll definitely won't know if we won't try.

Because there are a LOT of things that just won't work and aren't worth trying. Further, what will or won't work will depend on the psychology of the person. You can't just lump everyone who sleeps around into the same group and treat them all the same.

Altering someone's behavior requires specifics about their mental processes. It's not something you just toss a kitchen sink of ideas at and hope one works. That's not a plan, it's desperation.


Don't dismiss other people's games just because you don't like it or it's not to your standards.

It's constructive criticism. You turn someone who treats women as objects into a women, and he'll be pissed. He's not likely to start viewing women differently however. Yes, he might decide he's treated unfairly (depending on the culture), but that's ONLY because he's really a man -- other women aren't really men, so they don't 'count.' Bigotry is not solved so easily.

Besides, they'd probably be more focused on their sense of being violated more than anything else.

And if all the women are willing participants, then that's just another reason why this plan wouldn't work.

If you make a plan and it looks like:
1. Do X
2. ??? or "he magically learns his lesson"
3. Profit

Then it is a bad plan. If you can't detail how this is supposed effect change in him step by step, then it is a bad plan. Because right now it is just...

1. Turn him into a women
2. This works in some movies somehow so it must be legit
3. He learned his lesson!

And does that really make for a good plan?


What other player? The only player will try some ideas. Whether they work or not will depend what he does, how he does it and maybe a few rolls.

I think it is mostly the way you talked about the character made it sound like another player was making them.

[weckar]

The player doesn't yet know what he will play, so I'm looking for ideas that I could pitch to her.
This bit also confused me. Could you clarify?

[The Insanity]

@ Drachasor
Sorry, but we want to play a Dungeons & Dragons game, not Psychos & Psychiatrists.
You're clearly not able to contribute to the topic without making it a psychoanalysis, so maybe do yourself a favor and just give it a rest? Or maybe I'll expand the request to also include making the playboy NPCs and you'll help me with that? I'm not a playboy, so I have actually no idea how to make them properly.

[The Insanity]

This bit also confused me. Could you clarify?
That's a typo. I was writing "player" and my brain made it a "he".

[weckar]

So the player is actually a "she"? Maybe it could be an idea to crossplay the adventure then, so she could use real-life insight on how to handle the situation.

Thus, maybe make the player a "He" and the 'opponent' a "She"?

[Drachasor]

@ Drachasor
Sorry, but we want to play a Dungeons & Dragons game, not Psychos & Psychiatrists.
You're clearly not able to contribute to the topic without making it a psychoanalysis, so maybe do yourself a favor and just give it a rest?

My apologies. You said you were interested in role-playing. Usually the personality of other characters matters there.

My mistake. I'll exit the thread then.

[The Insanity]

Check my edit.
And yes, I am interested in roleplaying. I can't really help it, for now, that I don't have what you expect of me. :smallannoyed:

[The Insanity]

So the player is actually a "she"?
Well, yes. Why wouldn't she be?


Maybe it could be an idea to crossplay the adventure then, so she could use real-life insight on how to handle the situation.

Thus, maybe make the player a "He" and the 'opponent' a "She"?
She'll be playing a male in another solo game (you might see topics about that in near future). This one is female.

[weckar]

Not saying she wouldn't be, but it was ambiguous before I got the earlier clarification :smallsmile:

Well, I'm out of ideas I'm afraid. [/contribution]

[The Insanity]

Well, hopefully, as a woman, she'll have better luck with this, because I'm drawing a blank. :/
And that was a joke. I can see that, yet again, I didn't make myself clear. It' just that, I know you can roleplay whatever you want, but I and everyone I know, tend to assume that a player's gender corresponds with his character's gender, unless there's clear data.

[Drachasor]

Check my edit.
And yes, I am interested in roleplaying. I can't really help it, for now, that I don't have what you expect of me. :smallannoyed:

Well, it's kind of like asking to defeat an evil wizard....and you don't know what level they are, the resources they have, or anything like that. You can't really make any sensible plan with that little information.


Or maybe I'll expand the request to also include making the playboy NPCs and you'll help me with that? I'm not a playboy, so I have actually no idea how to make them properly.

As far as SOP, they typically get shot down a lot. They generally rely on finding women vulnerable to their tactics (which is a fraction of the overall female population). Though part of this depends on their attitude towards lying about themselves to score.

Why they do it can be extremely varied though. They might not know how to interact with the opposite sex in other way. They might only be comfortable with shallow relationships because they don't want to get hurt. They might not want anything serious and don't want to settle down. They might just view it as entertainment until they find a socially acceptable match. They might view it as a way to affirm their masculinity. They might view it as a competition with other males. This is just skimming the surface of some possibilities.

Similarly, they might not realize they are causing anyone pain. If they are particularly ethical, they might not be causing anyone pain. They might not care if they hurt others. They might think that anyone they hurt and stupid and deserves it. They might just think women are stupid and deserve what is coming to them in general. They might figure women do the same thing, so it's all fair. Maybe it's a form a revenge for some past slight someone did to them. And so on and so forth.

How that intersects with their daily life and other aspirations, and whether there is any conflict with their other aspirations, is highly particular to their individual circumstance and society in which they live.

[The Insanity]

Well, these two concepts I already shared are just the beginning. I did say there will be a few of them. It might sound silly, or not make sense, but it will be fun and we're not picky. We don't really have time or energy for in-debt games, unfortunately.
For variety, I think I'll make the half-orc Neutral Evil. But more Dexter style Evil, if that makes any sense to you? Basically he was raised in an Evil society, so he's Evil, but his smart enough to not be actively Evil. Or something like that.
The half-elf I was seeing as Neutral Good. In his case it could make sense that a female friend would want to stop him from becoming a horrible man and step into Neutrality.

[Alent]

Your point?

Eh, just that I don't think it will go very well since it's an isolated plot component and not a very meaty story element by itself since you haven't even explained the conflict itself. Unless the NPC has more meat to him than what we're seeing here, I'm not sure why the PC would be coming into conflict with the NPC.

To wit, who is this NPC? Does he have traits that would make him worth redeeming? Is he significant to the PC for personal reasons? What exactly is there to this story that creates a conflict worth resolving? If he's just a womanizer, he gets a cold shoulder in the tavern. There has to be something more to this guy, something that makes him worth spending time to redeem.

Mechanically, D&D doesn't support this concept very well: At the very least you'll have to trash the diplomacy rules and make his behavior immune to magical adjustment- unless you want him to be magically adjusted, of course.


I don't know where this came from.

I don't think you're familiar with what constitutes sociopathic behavior. It's a fairly wide and loose categorization that can include uninhibited bold behavior. It would be one possible reason for why someone would pursue an ends (womanizing) without satisfaction- he's trying to satisfy himself, and can't, so he just keeps it up.

You have an NPC here who represents a person. If you want this to work, he has to be a person with motivations behind his actions. You don't fix a person's behavior without changing his motivations... And even then you can only go so far- the person would have to change themselves, which I guess in this case would be DM Fiat.

[weckar]

Actually, I had a blast of insight of how she could limit/stop his playboy-ways: She could Marry Him! :smallsmile:

[The Insanity]

Unless the NPC has more meat to him than what we're seeing here, I'm not sure why the PC would be coming into conflict with the NPC.
There's no meat yet, because, as I explained, I'm still working on it. And the PC will be coming into "conflict" because that's the point of the game. Details will come when they come. WIP.


I don't think you're familiar with what constitutes sociopathic behavior.
No, I know what it is. Just my first go-to when I see the word is a serial killer. Blame television.

[The Insanity]

Actually, I had a blast of insight of how she could limit/stop his playboy-ways: She could Marry Him! :smallsmile:
Depending on the NPC and PC, it could very well be an option!

[weckar]

Glad I could be of some help after all.

Now excuse me while I go starry-eyed and watch Pride & Prejudice again.

[Alent]

There's no meat yet, because, as I explained, I'm still working on it. And the PC will be coming into "conflict" because that's the point of the game. Details will come when they come. WIP.

Hmm. In that case, then, widen the scope. Tremendously. Design this in isolation of the PC, and tailor it to the PC when you have it in hand.

Resolving the Playboy's behavior could be the lynchpin of a larger scale social problem. Let's say the Playboy is in the classic "I want an heir" situation, but not in the usual way. He's the second son of a prestigious house, which is currently struggling because his older brother and wife are barren. They're losing face socially, the father's old business partners are getting nervous because there's no legacy to guarantee continued business in 50~60 years.

The Playboy, on the other hand, is beneath this. Sure, he's wealthy, he's powerful, he can flaunt his social advantage and attract women. Unfortunately for him, he's the second son: He's got no inheritance, so it isn't real. There's no sense getting his hopes up, since eventually his older brother will eventually have a son or bastard.

This leaves the playboy in an even tighter situation. With no inheritance, he's been left to find a woman on his own. No arranged marriage, no quality women to court, just easy marks who are too stupid to know his wealth isn't his. He floats from easy mark to easy mark, because anyone better shoots him down too easily, but in the end he won't settle for someone "too easy"... and yet he's afraid and sabotages himself because of what he lacks.

Now, backing up another step, the other players:

The Brother doesn't want the playboy to have a child, and is actively discouraging him when he can get away with it. The Brother understands why he can't sire children, but is hiding it out of pride.

The Brother's wife is struggling in her own way, she's suggested using the playboy as a sire, but the brother won't allow it.

The Father is too old fashioned to consider granting the inheritance and family legacy to the playboy. His son, the heir, will eventually provide a grandson. The father's business needs to be some form of resource he doesn't have exclusivity on, but he has convenience- he's local, he's good, and most importantly, everyone trusts him. Every other source of (resource) is on the other side of a mountain range or ocean.

The Father's business partners, however, know the Brother is prideful trash. Let's say one of them is the brother's father-in-law. The Father-in-Law is the driving force behind questioning the stability of their business. He knows his daughter is struggling in vain to conceive. He's concerned for his daughter, he's concerned for his business, he's invested more than money and time into this business relationship- he gave away his daughter's hand to secure it. He and the Brother are both at odds, and in a strange way, are allies against the playboy, because of what the playboy becoming the inheritor will mean.

A third business partner, we'll call him the Schemer, recognizes that the playboy is vulnerable. The Schemer pushes cheap prostitutes and other scum towards the playboy to keep him isolated from anyone of character. He's acting as a mentor to the Playboy while manipulating him because he has a daughter who isn't quite of age yet. His plan is to arrange a marriage between the two as soon as the law will allow.

This is just one of a million options, but it's one that allows for a "sudden change" easily. The PC can marry the playboy, the PC can become an ally against the Schemer and brother and father-in-law, etc.

(Old world behavior note: if the PC causes the brother to die, the playboy could potentially be forced to marry to his brother's widow.)


No, I know what it is. Just my first go-to when I see the word is a serial killer. Blame television.

Aah, I understand. :smallfrown:

It probably did seem more erratic/random from the TV buzzword side of things.

[Ydaer Ca Noit]

I will start by saying that I didn't read all of the replies bc my head hurts.

You could do the "look you have a child" or "I think I will have a child", but I would do it in a way that it is later proven to be a lie. For example a succubus may try to frame him with a kid, to later use said kid for hostage, etc.

[Coidzor]

Griddle of Masculinity/Femininity and whatever method (beguiling gift) to make them wear it.

I don't know, I think cooking them until they change sex probably runs afoul of the "no traumatic violence" clause.

Edit: Obviously for the worst of the villains, the PC must use a combination of magic and cunning to trap them into a marriage with an ogress out in the wilds away from civilization, ensuring that they are never seen alive again, since it would just get boring if they're all not worth some kind of horrible and ironic death.

[Augmental]

Solution 2: Social pressure

Oh, you laugh!

But in a setting like the normal medieval Europe, you don't need a single NPC to point anything out. Word travels. People gossip. Even between villages.

All of a sudden, nobody will rent this character a room at the inn. Nobody will fix her weapons. Nobody will sell her potions- and that goes for her associates, as well.

The Exchequer's man is suddenly very interested in your latest loot haul. Good temples close their doors against you, or allow you to come in, as soon as you finish an Atonement quest.

Bit of an overreaction to sexual promiscuity.