Slay dem Demons Yaaaaa!! (Character building advice)

[Ein0r]

Greetings Playground community :D

A long time has passed since i played D&D and next week i finally have the chance to play again:smallsmile:

The group consists of four level 12 chars; a Psion, a Summoner Druid, a Bard and a Rogue and a Cleric (cohort). All of them are min/maxed pretty decently, but not way overboard. I asked the DM if there is anything the group could need, and he mentioned that some sort of Fighter class would be nice, or something that is good against demons.

And that is where all my troubles start. Our group has access to about every book, and theoretically most of the Dragon Magazines although we rarely use the latter. Everything is allowed as long as it is not too overpowered. What is overpowered and what's not is up to our DM and he decides this after seeing the character concept, and i fully agree with that It can become pretty annoying having to fight fire with fire all the time.

Since i lack routine in char creation at the moment, here are the ideas i have at the moment:
I thought of going something like: Paladin 5/Crusader 3/Deep Stone Sentinel 5/Knight of the Chalice 6 (preferably a desert dwarf to switch +2Con/-2Cha to +2Con/-2Dex)
Although Paladins are great, especially for Divine Grace, i only took it to get Protection from Evil and divine spellcasting (KoC Req.) without having to sacrfice a BAB. If there are other solutions i would be glad to hear them.

It doesnt need to be a Dwarf or a Deep Stone Sentinel, but i really would like to get at least 6 level of Knight of the Chalice into the build. Maybe 3 Levels would be fine too, but i have no clue what else i should take instead.

Maybe add a level Cleric and 2-3 levels of Shadowstriker ?

And with that said, if you have any other ideas how to properly slay Demons the most efficient/stylish/brutal way possible i am glad to hear your ideas, since i am still pretty overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options i have available.

[Yorrin]

Do you have access to FC2? Hellreaver has all the flavor you're looking for and pretty easy prereqs. Something like a Paladin 4/Crusader 1 for entry. Not the KotC build you're asking about specifically, but it's a fun and simple PrC that fits the demonslayer archetype that maintains pretty good power (and imo is great for a Crusader). Cha synergy with Paladin/Crusader lets you do a little party-facing as well, though you'd want Able Learner to keep Diplomacy up.

[Red Fel]

Seconding Hellreaver. First off, it gets several Paladin-like abilities (bonus damage, healing, boost to saves), although it lacks casting. Second, its flavor is specifically designed around demon-slaying. Third, the prereqs are incredibly easy - +5 BAB, Good, Power Attack, Knowledge (planes), kill an Evil Outsider. Everybody does that. You don't even need Paladin for it - frankly, you could do it with a Fighter chassis. Or Cleric.

And with regard to "slaying Demons in the most efficient/stylish/brutal way possible," you need look no further than the class capstone, the aptly named Divine Retribution. It's a 1/day power; when you use it to hit an Evil Outsider, it has to make a save or explode. Even if it makes the save it takes normal damage +10d6. Also, if it explodes, all Evil creatures in a radius go blind.

Few things better than a "take massive damage or die" explosive class capstone ability.

[PraxisVetli]

Seconding Hellreaver. First off, it gets several Paladin-like abilities (bonus damage, healing, boost to saves), although it lacks casting. Second, its flavor is specifically designed around demon-slaying. Third, the prereqs are incredibly easy - +5 BAB, Good, Power Attack, Knowledge (planes), kill an Evil Outsider. Everybody does that. You don't even need Paladin for it - frankly, you could do it with a Fighter chassis. Or Cleric.

And with regard to "slaying Demons in the most efficient/stylish/brutal way possible," you need look no further than the class capstone, the aptly named Divine Retribution. It's a 1/day power; when you use it to hit an Evil Outsider, it has to make a save or explode. Even if it makes the save it takes normal damage +10d6. Also, if it explodes, all Evil creatures in a radius go blind.

Few things better than a "take massive damage or die" explosive class capstone ability.
This.
All of this.

[Phelix-Mu]

Repeating the above. Hellreaver really is the bees' knees. Simple mechanic, easy to get into, not as over-focused as stuff like KotC or some of the BoED stuff. I toss it on my celestial npcs all of the time, to excellent effect.

[Ein0r]

Thanks for the Hellreaver suggestion, it looks pretty neat.
And sorry for the late answer, i wasnt at home and didnt have most of my books at hand.

The Hellreaver looks pretty neat. It seems that it is pretty good when combined with charge build? Gotta look this up.
I ditched the idea of going for a KotC build, since it is too gimmicky for me yet and i probably wont have enough time to work out every single detail. Let alone that i still havnt been able to roll my stats :(

In the meantime i worked on this Deep Stone Sentinel:
Crusader 10/ DSS 5/

Feats:
- Extra Granted Maneuver
- Knowldge Devotion
- Stone Power
- (Monkey Grip, for wielding a Greataxe + Shield)
- Two Weapon Fighting (If the stats will allow it)

After this i would havde added either more Crusader lvls or something different. Maybe Fighter. But after checking the Hellreaver i also could ad 5 lvls of Hellreaver if i dont take TWF but Power Attack instead. Or getting a Psychic revamp later on to change Stone Power to Power Attack.

Maneuvers:
1.: Vanguard Strike

2.: Mountain Hammer

3.: Revitalizing Strike
Bone Crusher
White Raven Tactics

4.: Bonesplitting Strike/Divine Surge (but i favour BSS over DS)

5.: Elder Mountain Hammer
Radiant Strike/Flanking Maneuver

6. Rallying Strike
Irresistible Mountain Strike

Stances:
Martial Spirit
Bolstering Voice
Giants Stance


A different variation wich i have to check now is Crusader5 /Hellreaver 10/ DSS 5 :smallcool:

[Red Fel]

As a rule, I would discourage TWF, particularly on a Crusader-based build, where most of your maneuvers are a single-weapon-hit anyway. Go with a two-handed weapon to get the most bang for your buck. Remember also that you don't need Stone Power and Power Attack; the former counts as the latter for any prerequisite purposes you may need. As a rule, however, I find Stone Power disappointing - lose to-hit to gain temporary HP? That's not really all that good unless you plan to take a pretty massive hit in the next six seconds.

Also, don't go with Monkey Grip. Just don't. It's not remotely as good as some people seem to think it is. Frankly, neither is sword-and-board, but if that's the way you want to go, that's fine.

You mentioned a charge build. DSS is definitely not what you want if you plan on charging. Nor is Stone Dragon. Remember the requirement that you lose various Stone Dragon benefits if you move more than 5 feet? DSS has the same problem.

Now, Stone Power, Stone Dragon and DSS are great if you plan to stand in one place and force enemies to come to you. And Crusader has the tools to do that, through things like Thicket of Blades, Stand Still, and Combat Reflexes. But that's a defensive build, which isn't what you're describing.

If you want a charge build, go with Power Attack + Shock Trooper. That will allow you to reassign the to-hit penalty from Power Attack to your AC. In other words, your to-hit won't suffer, your damage will go up, and as long as you kill your target in one hit, who cares if your AC drops?

Know also that you could always go simple Crusader/Hellreaver. You don't even have to go Crusader 10/ Hellreaver 10, either; you can go Crusader 5/ Hellreaver 10/ Crusader +5, and be working with a higher IL in your endgame. If you go Crusader 5/ Hellreaver 10/ Crusader +5, by the time you take your sixth Crusader level you have an IL of 11 (6 Crusader + 10/2 Hellreaver), entitling you to 6th-level maneuvers. By 20th level, you'll have an IL of 15, entitling you to 8th-level. Remember also that at each even Crusader level (4+) you can swap out a maneuver, so that's pretty nice.