Best archer set up.

[deathwolf669]

Well my character nearly died today so time to move on and start making a new character in case he does die next session as it ended mid fight.

I can use the core, complete, Arms and adventure, MIC and unearthed arcana books.

I have seen the ranger but to be honest I think the fighter would be better. Is there another class thats better which I have missed. Start it at level 12 I might die at a higher level, who knows!!!

I am thinking the extra feats would be better than what the ranger gets as its specials. I would also be a fletcher so I can make my own arrows as I go. Also I am going to be mounted. Collar of shrinkage hear I come! Shame I cannot afford a battle titan.

I would probably take human or elf, if its the latter I would take quiver & bow of elven kind (guessing this is an expensive bunch for an elf archer?) and as a human a +5 composite bow of some sort probably with the quiver of Ehlonna.

So that would be enough info for me to start with.

[Nihilarian]

Can you use Hank's Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a)? It's official material, just on the WOTC website rather than published.

If not allowed, I like Duskblade/Arcane Archer.

Otherwise your best bet is a Swift Hunter.

The Soulbow is probably the best Archery PrC, but it requires mind blade.

[Piggy Knowles]

With that list of allowed books, I'd recommend either a Chameleon or a Cleric archer. Either way, pick up Divine Metamagic and Persistent Spell, and buff your brains out. There are a lot of really good archery buffs. For a simple, no-nonsense build you could go Cloistered Cleric 1/Ranger 4/Chameleon 7 as your level 12 starting build. That will give you 5th-level spells from basically any list, which is pretty nice.

If you want something with a little more oomph, but that's a little less clean, you could go Half-Elf Paragon 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Fighter 2/Chameleon 5/Arcane Archer 2. Take Human Heritage as your first level feat, and use your Half-Elf Paragon bonus feat to pick up Able Learner, allowing you to qualify for both Arcane Archer and Chameleon. From there, finish out Chameleon and then close the build with whatever you want - more Half-Elf Paragon is fine, and I like dipping into Death Delver to pick up an extra turning pool for more DMM uses.

Otherwise, Swift Hunters are always good. There are a lot of decent Swift Hunter build stubs out there. Cloistered Cleric 1/Scout 5/Ranger 14 gives you +17 BAB, +7d6/+5 AC skirmish, and Travel Devotion + turn attempts to reliably activate skirmish. Simple and effective.

[deathwolf669]

Nihilarian> I might be able to use things off the site but I listed the books I know I can use.

I will have a look at the Arcane Archer, has a quite a good set up. Means I have to be an elf but I was looking at that.

We will leave the Soulbow out as I know the DM doesnt like psionics.


Piggy> What book is the Chameleon in? D&D tools says its in Races of destiny which is not in the list I mentioned.

I will have a look at the cloistered cleric though.

[Flickerdart]

Otherwise, Swift Hunters are always good. There are a lot of decent Swift Hunter build stubs out there. Cloistered Cleric 1/Scout 5/Ranger 14 gives you +17 BAB, +7d6/+5 AC skirmish, and Travel Devotion + turn attempts to reliably activate skirmish. Simple and effective.
Scout 5? I don't see why you wouldn't take Ranger to 15 instead. You get a duplicate Evasion and 2 skill points, but lose 1 BAB, 1 4th level spell, 1 HP, 1 Will, and 1 extra favoured enemy.

[Piggy Knowles]

Nihilarian> I might be able to use things off the site but I listed the books I know I can use.

I will have a look at the Arcane Archer, has a quite a good set up. Means I have to be an elf but I was looking at that.

We will leave the Soulbow out as I know the DM doesnt like psionics.


Piggy> What book is the Chameleon in? D&D tools says its in Races of destiny which is not in the list I mentioned.

I will have a look at the cloistered cleric though.

Whoops, you're absolutely correct. For some reason I spaced and thought it was in Complete Adventurer. Don't know how I made that mistake, as Races of Destiny is one of my favorite books. In that case, I'd go with a straight Cloistered Cleric, or maybe a Cloistered Cleric/Ordained Champion or Seeker of the Misty Isle. Knowledge Devotion and persistent Divine Power will make up for the low BAB.


Scout 5? I don't see why you wouldn't take Ranger to 15 instead. You get a duplicate Evasion and 2 skill points, but lose 1 BAB, 1 4th level spell, 1 HP, 1 Will, and 1 extra favoured enemy.

Because I was running off memory, and thought Swift Hunter had a requirement of +2d6 skirmish :smallredface: Looking at it now, I see it only requires +1d6, so Scout 4/Ranger 15 indeed makes more sense.

[deathwolf669]

So scout to level 4, looks good, why swap to ranger for the rest rather than stick to the scout or move to a fighter instead for the extra feats?

I only ask as I don't know what to take as favored enemy, I don't think we have fought the same type of creature more than twice.

[Nihilarian]

So scout to level 4, looks good, why swap to ranger for the rest rather than stick to the scout or move to a fighter instead for the extra feats?

I only ask as I don't know what to take as favored enemy, I don't think we have fought the same type of creature more than twice.Swift Hunter rewards you for taking as many scout or ranger levels as you can. Ranger in particular has full BAB and spells, so is generally the preferred route.

Swift Hunter also let's you deal Skirmish damage to a Favored Enemy even if it would normally be immune. So Undead, Elemental, and Construct are the best choices.

[deathwolf669]

Tis a shame Favoured Enemy is not a feat.

I take it going to level 4 scout is for the bonus feat given.

Guess I need to read up on how cross classing works :D

[Piggy Knowles]

With the Swift Hunter feat from Complete Scoundrel, your ranger levels will stack with scout for skirmish and favored enemy. This way, even though you're taking levels in the full BAB ranger class, you're still improving your skirmish as though you continued with scout.

As far as favored enemies, another nice thing about Swift Hunter is that your skirmish damage always applies to your favored enemy, even if they would normally be immune. That means that the best favored enemy choices are going to be creatures ordinarily immune to skirmish - undead, elementals and constructs are the three big ones, although plant creatures and oozes are also ordinarily immune. Even if you don't come up against them often, when you do, you'll appreciate the fact that you can deal full damage to them. Other than that, I'd look at the Arcane Hunter option from Complete Mage, which allows you to essentially choose "spellcasters" as a favored enemy. Most of the deadliest enemies in D&D cast spells, so this is always a good choice.

If I were playing a swift hunter in a campaign with a wide variety of enemies, I'd probably pick up Undead, Arcane Hunter, Constructs and Humanoids (Human) for my four choices, possibly dropping humans for elementals.

EDIT: Actually, there IS an Extra Favored Enemy feat, but it's not in any of your allowed sources. Also, ninjas are everywhere.

[Flickerdart]

I take it going to level 4 scout is for the bonus feat given.
Yep. If you take classes in the right order (CCleric 1, then Ranger 1, then Scout 4) you get two feat slots at 6th, letting you pick up Swift Hunter and Improved Skirmish at the same time. Otherwise you'd have to wait for a while to get it.

Scout 4 is a pretty good level anyway because it doesn't lose BAB at that level.

[deathwolf669]

While Arcane archer is nice, does swift hunter stack with its levels?

If not I will put that and the CCleric to one side so I can forget about casting, plus I can pass it off to my other half if she dies first.

I will probably look at taking arcane hunter with swift hunter on top. So for level 5 I would take undead and level 10 I would take magical beast. We seem to come across a lot of these.

[Nihilarian]

While Arcane archer is nice, does swift hunter stack with its levels?

If not I will put that and the CCleric to one side so I can forget about casting, plus I can pass it off to my other half if she dies first.

I will probably look at taking arcane hunter with swift hunter on top. So for level 5 I would take undead and level 10 I would take magical beast. We seem to come across a lot of these.Cloistered Cleric is for fueling the Travel Devotion feat in Complete Champion, so you can move and still full attack.

[Flickerdart]

While Arcane archer is nice, does swift hunter stack with its levels?
No. Arcane Archers use standard actions anyway, so they don't mesh well with Scouts (the bonus damage is too low to bother).



I will probably look at taking arcane hunter with swift hunter on top. So for level 5 I would take undead and level 10 I would take magical beast. We seem to come across a lot of these.
Don't waste FE on Magical Beast. Swift Hunter lets you ignore the critical hit immunity of favored enemies (and thus deal Skirmish damage to them) so pick only ones that are crit-immune. The benefit otherwise is not really worth it.

[Piggy Knowles]

Arcane Archer does not stack with Swift Hunter/Scout/Ranger, and is really only good in specialized builds. Most of its benefits can be replaced with a single casting of the greater magic weapon spell.

Cloistered Cleric isn't really there for spells (although they don't hurt) - it's there for free Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion. Complete Champion allows you to trade certain domains for their associated domain feat. So, you start with a Cloistered Cleric with the Travel domain and something else you'll find useful. You get the Knowledge domain for free. Then you trade the Travel domain and the Knowledge domain for Travel Devotion and Knowledge Devotion. Travel Devotion lets you move as a swift action, which allows you to trigger skirmish while still full attacking. Knowledge Devotion gives you bonus attack and damage, which is nice.

If you're starting at level 12 with those books allowed, I'd probably go with something like...

1. Cloistered Cleric1- Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion
2. Ranger1- Track
3. Scout1- Extra Turning
4. Scout2-
5. Scout3-
6. Scout4- Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish
7. Ranger2- Rapid Shot
8. Ranger3- Endurance
9. Ranger4- Practiced Spellcaster (Ranger)
10. Ranger5-
11. Ranger6- Manyshot
12. Ranger7- Ranged Pin

With that, you'll have six turn attempts even if you start with a Charisma of 8, which will let you use Travel Devotion 4 times per day. (Each use lasts a minute, so assuming you average four combats per day, that will more or less last you through every encounter.)

[Snowbluff]

I can vouch for Arcane Archer. A two level dip on a DB or a built gish is really effective for the playstyle. I built a Green Naga Ranger4/Scout4, and it was pretty good as well. Cloistered Cleric 1 is a good dip, regardless of what you do.

I would suggest Grey Elf Factotum8/Monk2, a build fashioned by Tippy.
With Invisible Fist (immediate action invisibility) and Decisive Strike Monk (x2 damage for a full round action, subsequent attacks deal x2 damage)
Factotums can take standard actions for 3 inspiration points at level 8.

Your weapon would be an Elvencraft Hank's Energy Composite Longbow, which is treated as a quarterstaff. Fit a wand chamber into each end of the quarterstaff, and place Wands of Hunter's Mercy (crit) and Sniper's Shot (SA at any range), and have wand of Truestrike in your spiked gauntlets.

As a full round action, deal x2 damage with a shot. Proceed to make standard attacks (or Many Shot, if you're in range) with your points until you've expended them.

My complained about me turning the game into rocket tag with this setup.

[deathwolf669]

Well guess I have my class set out :D

Thanks guys.

Now to go and play with the items list.

Mithral shirt hear I come!

[Artillery]

While Arcane archer is nice, does swift hunter stack with its levels?

If not I will put that and the CCleric to one side so I can forget about casting, plus I can pass it off to my other half if she dies first.

I will probably look at taking arcane hunter with swift hunter on top. So for level 5 I would take undead and level 10 I would take magical beast. We seem to come across a lot of these.

Favored Enemy is to get around Crit immunity for your skirmish damage with Swift Hunter, Magical Beasts tend not to be immune to crits. The enemy types that are immune to crits are constructs, elementals, ooze, plants, and undead. Constructs, Undead, and Elementals are the only ones to worry about, there aren't many oozes or plants.

Dictum Mortuum has a good swifthunter handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/swift-hunters-handbook.html).

[Snowbluff]

Pfft, chain shirt? Here's what you'll do:

+X Defending Ringsword Spiked Gauntlet, with wand chamber
+1 Warning Blindsighted Ringsword Spiked Gauntlet, with wand chamber
+X Empyreal Buckler, with wand chamber (Sacred bonus to saves)
+X Ghostward Soulfire Buckler, with wand chamber (AC versus touch)
+X Defending Ringsword Poison Ring (Dragon Magazine Compendium, get one on each finger)
+X Heavy Fortification Dastana (Oriental)

Empyreal is BoED

Put rings on your Poison Rings (and gauntlets) so you can have bling while you have bling. Put some wands on that. Players loves wands. Wear a thong to troll your teammates.

Oh, as for a bow, Hank's Energy Bow, with the modifications I suggest above.

[Piggy Knowles]

Pfft, chain shirt? Here's what you'll do:

+X Defending Ringsword Spiked Gauntlet, with wand chamber
+1 Warning Blindsighted Ringsword Spiked Gauntlet, with wand chamber
+X Empyreal Buckler, with wand chamber (Sacred bonus to saves)
+X Ghostward Soulfire Buckler, with wand chamber (AC versus touch)
+X Defending Ringsword Poison Ring (Dragon Magazine Compendium, get one on each finger)
+X Heavy Fortification Dastana (Oriental)

Empyreal is BoED

Put rings on your Poison Rings (and gauntlets) so you can have bling while you have bling. Put some wands on that. Players loves wands. Wear a thong to troll your teammates.

Oh, as for a bow, Hank's Energy Bow, with the modifications I suggest above.

The OP is stuck with MIC, core, completes and A&EG for sources, it looks like. Still a good bit of decent gear from those sources, but it means no dastana, no empyreal buckler, no poison ring, and saddest of all, no Hank's.

[Seerow]

I'm more curious where a wand chamber fits into a spiked gauntlet. I know it's RAW and all... but really?

[deathwolf669]

I am guessing not but will skirmish work while mounted?

[Seerow]

I am guessing not but will skirmish work while mounted?

In the book it does. But errata was later issued saying it doesn't. A lot of people tend to say "Screw that errata" but officially it does not work.

[deathwolf669]

Well until told otherwise I guess I am taking a mammoth with a collar of shrinkage to make the other half happy.

Saddle of flying to make it dumbo maybe?

[deathwolf669]

Oh and what does RAW mean, I keep meaning to ask

[Snowbluff]

The OP is stuck with MIC, core, completes and A&EG for sources, it looks like. Still a good bit of decent gear from those sources, but it means no dastana, no empyreal buckler, no poison ring, and saddest of all, no Hank's.
Calamity!

I think I might write a silly handbook to how I gear characters. I'd take it chain mail bikinis step further and have everyone wearing all of thier functioning armor and weapons on their hands, while they wear whatever they want for clothes. I've always wanted to fight a Balor in a tux.

I'm more curious where a wand chamber fits into a spiked gauntlet. I know it's RAW and all... but really?
I usually have it stuffs in the forearm portion of the gauntlet for fluff's sake. RAW, I think it's supposed to be sticking out of your hand. :smalltongue:

In the book it does. But errata was later issued saying it doesn't. A lot of people tend to say "Screw that errata" but officially it does not work.

I hate errata, sometimes. :smallfrown:

[deathwolf669]

1. Cloistered Cleric1- Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion
2. Ranger1- Track
3. Scout1- Extra Turning
4. Scout2-
5. Scout3-
6. Scout4- Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish
7. Ranger2- Rapid Shot
8. Ranger3- Endurance
9. Ranger4- Practiced Spellcaster (Ranger)
10. Ranger5-
11. Ranger6- Manyshot
12. Ranger7- Ranged Pin



While I think about it, how do you managed to get that many feats on first level? I am going to be playing an elf so I can dip 2 levels into Arcane Archer.

[Seerow]

While I think about it, how do you managed to get that many feats on first level? I am going to be playing an elf so I can dip 2 levels into Arcane Archer.

He was probably assuming human. Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion come from trading out domains for Devotion feats, Point Blank and Precise shot come from level 1 feat + bonus feat.

Is there a cleric domain that gives Point Blank Shot? That would let it be done without human.

[deathwolf669]

Screw it, just read more on the arcane archer, while adding +1 to my arrows I know my DM wont let that stack with a +# bow.

Which book says about trading in domains for feats?

[Eldariel]

Best Archer with those sources is probably a Cleric. Elf-domain gives PBS, but it's from Spell Compendium. I'd just go Cloistered Cleric (if allowed - normal Cleric works as well but leaves you with less fun skills to play with, though at least you can take Cleric-casting advancing prestige classes with impunity) with DMM: Persist Spell, enjoy all the awesome buffs, 6+Int scores (skill list can be expanded as necessary; Ruathar-levels from Races of the Wild would give you all the relevant class skills for instance, though the vague nature of the source listing makes me uncertain if that's available) and great ranged attacks. You can even take Zen Archery [Complete Warrior] and 13 Dex is all you need for Rapid Shot.

Most important spell to persist is Divine Power. Tailor the rest to taste; they can be party buffs, personal buffs or whatever. Don't forget non-persistent spells, Greater Magic Weapon & Magic Vestment, Resist Energy, Air Walk and such.

[deathwolf669]

Eldariel> Spell comp is ok, I forgot to say I can play with that. So I will go have a look at that in abit.

I found the Domain feats thingy so will have a read of that and then sit down and write my character. Currently writing the back story with levels as chapter sections :D

[Eldariel]

Eldariel> Spell comp is ok, I forgot to say I can play with that. So I will go have a look at that in abit.

I found the Domain feats thingy so will have a read of that and then sit down and write my character. Currently writing the back story with levels as chapter sections :D

DMM: Persist Cleric would go as follows:

Elf or Human
Cleric 1 (two out of Elf, Planning, Undeath domains - Travel, Spell & co. are cool too): Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell (if Human, otherwise pass it down)
Cleric 2:
Cleric 3: Rapid Shot
Cleric 4:
Cleric-or-PRC 5:
Cleric-or-PRC 6: Zen Archery
Cleric-or-PRC 7:
Cleric-or-PRC 8:
Cleric-or-PRC 9: Extra Turning-or-Precise Shot
Cleric-or-PRC 10:
Cleric-or-PRC 11:
Cleric-or-PRC 12: Extra Turning (if desired, could also e.g. be a divine feat or whatever)

Cloistered Cleric if allowed, otherwise normal Cleric. If normal Cleric, go PRC ASAP. PRCs would include, depending on alignment, Radiant Servant (of Pelor), Church Inquisitor, Sacred Exorcist, Contemplative, anything full casting that gives you stuff. Either way, if it's allowed, Ruathar [Races of the Wild] would probably make sense fluff-wise and give you the class skills you want so you probably want it either way.

You can handle Precise Shot by just buying a Precise bow which saves you a valuable feat. You can also get Turning from Nightsticks/Reliquary Holy Symbol to fuel Divine Metamagic. If you include character flaws you can get more feats on level 1 to compensate, which would allow you to compress the build a bit. If you get Cloistered Cleric, Knowledge Devotion [Complete Champion] becomes an awesome feat, kind of your own kind of Favored Enemy if you take Knowledge-ranks in all the identifying Knowledges (Local, Religion, Dungeoneering, The Planes, Arcana, Nature).

Travel Devotion is really good and if you have extra feats or the option, it's certainly worth taking. Many PRCs offer you additional domains (Contemplative as the fastest option) so that's one way to look at that.


The great advantage this build has is complete access to buff magic (Greater Magic Weapon, for instance, makes Arcane Archer look silly especially if you have Strand of Prayer Beads and you can cast it on the whole party if they just give you appropriate level Pearls of Power in exchange to pay for the daily spell slot - Magic Vestment, Resists and such are similar and Spell Compendium has a ton of good party buff spells too, like Vigorous Circle or Righteous Wrath of the Faithful that are nice to have all day).

[Snowbluff]

Is there a cleric domain that gives Point Blank Shot? That would let it be done without human.

As Eladriel said, Elf domain gives the feat. With Elf as your Domain, and trading out Knowledge and Travel, you can have one of the best dips ever with Cloistered Cleric.

[deathwolf669]

What the hell is a PRC?

If its a purple raincoat, no thank you.

Guessing you mean prestige class though.

I am going to go CCleric, 4 scout levels the fill the rest with Ranger as it seems more what I would go for.

Well I need to sit and read all the books on how multi classing, clerics and such work.

Catch you all in the morning when I am slightly more fresh. :D

Thanks for the help so far

[Eldariel]

What the hell is a PRC?

If its a purple raincoat, no thank you.

Guessing you mean prestige class though.

I am going to go CCleric, 4 scout levels the fill the rest with Ranger as it seems more what I would go for.

Well I need to sit and read all the books on how multi classing, clerics and such work.

Catch you all in the morning when I am slightly more fresh. :D

Thanks for the help so far

You are correct: PRC is an abbreviation for a Prestige Class. Also, enjoy, then. Your casting won't do much with one Cleric-level but you'll be a decent Scout.

[Snowbluff]

If its a purple raincoat, no thank you.


Are you sure? Charlatan is probably one of the coolest PrCs around, purple coat or no.

[bekeleven]

I figure it's best if someone mentions something besides swift hunter and cleric.

There are a ton of archer prestige classes in various books, although many of the good ones are Forgotten Realms. Justice of Weald and Woe, from Champions of Ruin, is one of the better ones. Peerless Archer, from Silver marches, grants ranged power attack in one of the few non-hank sources. Cragtop archer is also fun. It doesn't help as much (super long-range isn't really a niche you need in D&D), but it's from a more accessible book (races of stone, I think?).

Obviously, none of these have power in the same ballpark as a cleric. But, if built right, a PrC'd archer can get power similar to a swift hunter. Ranger 2/Fighter 4/Justice 2/Cragtop X/Peerless 3/Justice +X is a simple build stub.

[lsfreak]

Cragtop archer is also fun. It doesn't help as much (super long-range isn't really a niche you need in D&D), but it's from a more accessible book (races of stone, I think?).

Yea, RoS. There's also Deepwoods Sniper from Sword and Fist, a 3.0 book, that's usually mentioned in the same breath as Peerless Archer. But as it's not available to OP...

OP, make sure ahead of time whether or not your group uses multiclass penalties. Most people here ignore them because they're quite honestly ridiculous, but usually forget to take into consideration. As you're talking about looking into how multiclassing works for the first time, it probably should have been mentioned before now. Basically, when you have two classes two or more levels apart, you gain 20% less XP. Races each have their own class that doesn't count, called favored classes. The thing is, since you'll level up slower, you'll end up a level behind everyone else... at which point you gain extra XP, so it doesn't really matter. You should never be more than a level behind the party, which isn't really enough to make a difference.

[deathwolf669]

Is there a way to gain extra domains rather than just the spells like Arcane disciple grants?

If I go human I will take Travel and Undeath as my 2 domains so I can trade in travel and knowledge, and take point blank shot as a feat.

If I go half-elf I will take elf and travel as my domains and then extra turning as a feat.

I forgot about the penalty and would be penalized for it, if I have 3 classes I would be only leveling one up before hand. My Arcane hunter/ranger shouldn't he be affected as its the higher level should it? But if I add to my cleric or scout there would be a 20% penalty wouldn't there?

[Flickerdart]

Is there a way to gain extra domains rather than just the spells like Arcane disciple grants?
Yes - some prestige classes like Contemplative, Divine Crusader, or Sovereign Speaker grant additional domains. Consult the Lists of Stuff (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1068066) (search for "Bonus Domains").

[deathwolf669]

Yes - some prestige classes like Contemplative, Divine Crusader, or Sovereign Speaker grant additional domains. Consult the Lists of Stuff (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1068066) (search for "Bonus Domains").

I thought someone was going to point them out :(

Was hoping for a feat rather than another class :(

[Piggy Knowles]

If you just want the benefits of the domain granted power, but not the spells, the Planar Touchstone feat along with a touchstone from the Catalogues of Enlightenment will do the trick. However, it's from Planar Handbook, which is not on your list of allowed sources.

[deathwolf669]

Thats a shame.

Guess its on to picking equipment.

What is the best sort of bow?

I am thinking +1 composite long bow with seeking, collision, corrosive or can someone point out better? I would tailor the bow to cover my strength bonus.
I know thats a 5+ bow but its to cover the bases for if I have the money for that expensive a bow. Any other suggestions for bow set up?

EDIT: I know someone is going to/has already suggest hanks but why is it so good?

[Piggy Knowles]

Two reasons: force damage, which bypasses DR (the bane of an archer's existence), and the ability to add lots of bonus damage via the power shot feature.

[Nihilarian]

Thats a shame.

Guess its on to picking equipment.

What is the best sort of bow?

I am thinking +1 composite long bow with seeking, collision, corrosive or can someone point out better? I would tailor the bow to cover my strength bonus.
I know thats a 5+ bow but its to cover the bases for if I have the money for that expensive a bow. Any other suggestions for bow set up?

EDIT: I know someone is going to/has already suggest hanks but why is it so good?
1) Ranged Power Attack and increased arrow damage. Archers have a tough time dealing damage, so both are appreciated.
2) Damage Type. Force is rarely resisted, and it bypasses wind walls, incorporeal miss chance, and DR (this one is debated a bit).
3) Convenience. You don't need to buy arrows and it accommodates a user of any strength (especially nice for a barbarian). On top of that, it's relatively cheap (if you subtract the cost for a standard +2 weapon, all the above was gained for about 4,000 gp) and it can be enchanted further. Splitting and Seeking are generally recommended.

[deathwolf669]

Hmm guess I should swap collision out for force as they both have a +2 level to the bow.

How would I go about making either masterwork ammunition or even +2-5 arrows of my own? This way they beat the +1 of the bow with extras added to them.

[Nihilarian]

Hmm guess I should swap collision out for force as they both have a +2 level to the bow.

How would I go about making either masterwork ammunition or even +2-5 arrows of my own? This way they beat the +1 of the bow with extras added to them.My statement was about Hank's Energy Bow, which is a specific magic weapon, not a +2 weapon property. If you can't take Hank's Energy Bow, the Force property is a decent consolation prize.

For the ammunition, you need Craft Magic Arms and Armor, after which you follow the rules for magic weapons.

[deathwolf669]

Nihilarian> Just planning a bow in case my DM says no to Hanks bow as its on the net and not in a book.

I shall have a read up on making magic arrows now.

[Eldariel]

Splitting [Champions of Ruin], Seeking, Collision and Force are the best abilities for a bow. Pick which you can out of then, then others. Holy is good but not necessary if you can get Force (which is much better usually).

EDIT: And Bow of Winterymoon [Magic Item Compendium] is a good basis, if desired. It adjusts to strength and is cheap. The relic power is kinda whatever.

[Piggy Knowles]

If there is a wizard or cleric in the party, just buy a third or fourth level pearl of power for them, and ask them to cast Greater Magic Weapon. That can make your bow a +5 bow pretty easily. (You can also cast it on fifty arrows - but why would you?)

[deathwolf669]

Eldariel> Champions of Ruins isn't a book I can use or I would have taken that already :D

Also doesn't your combination make it an Epic item putting it above +5?

[Flickerdart]

Eldariel> Champions of Ruins isn't a book I can use or I would have taken that already :D

Also doesn't your combination make it an Epic item putting it above +5?
Epic items have an enhancement bonus of +6 or higher, or a total enhancement+enchantments bonus of +11 or higher.

[deathwolf669]

Flickerdart, that's what I thought I said.

If not how does that bow not count as an Epic level combination, given the fact 2 of the enchantments both are a +2 so with the +1 its a +5, or have I miss read how to make the item?

I wont be able to get an epic level bow, I know that.

[Vhaidara]

It is epic if the enhancement bonus (the bonus to hit and damage, the +x in front of the weapon [+1 longsword, +3 shortbow]) is greater than 5. So a +6 longbow (no special effects)

OR

If the total bonuses applied to it exceeds +10. So a +1 flaming frost shock keen merciful vorpal longsword, or a +5 keen vorpal dagger.

[Eldariel]

Flickerdart, that's what I thought I said.

If not how does that bow not count as an Epic level combination, given the fact 2 of the enchantments both are a +2 so with the +1 its a +5, or have I miss read how to make the item?

I wont be able to get an epic level bow, I know that.

The enhancement-limit of +5 just refers to the actual weapon enhancement. That is, if the weapon is vanilla +6, it's an epic weapon. +5 is the highest non-epic weapon in existence. Abilities like Force, Collision and Seeking are weapon abilities. They only count against the effective weapon value for purposes of epicness.

A non-epic weapon has maximum of +5 enhancement and +10 total of enhancement+abilities. So, a +1 weapon (minimum enhancement for a magic weapon) can have up to +9 worth of abilities like Force, Collision, Seeking and company before it's epic. A +5 weapon would be restricted to +5 worth of additional enhancements.


As such, +1 Seeking Force Collision is only +6 out of +10 effective enhancement and +1 out of +5 enhancement score, ergo way under epic. Your party mage can then cast Greater Magic Weapon on it to bring the actual enhancement much higher than that without increasing its price one bit.

[deathwolf669]

So technically an item can be a +20, +10 power and +10 enhancements.

[Seerow]

So technically an item can be a +20, +10 power and +10 enhancements.

No. It can go up to +10.

Your Power and Enhancements must add up to no more than 10, with Power not exceeding +5.


So you can have +5 with +5 worth of enhancements
Or you can have +1 with +9 worth of enhancements.
Or anything in between (+2 with +8, +3 with +7, etc).

There are only two rules: The total cannot exceed +10, and the bonus to Hit/Damage cannot exceed +5.

[Zetapup]

Oh and what does RAW mean, I keep meaning to ask

RAW means rules as written, RAI means rules as intended. The two terms come up a lot in optimization threads. Strictly RAW can get very silly very quickly and sometimes involves grammatical examinations of text to see what exactly an ability does, but since most people on the internet have a different idea of what is and isn't RAI, we have to use RAW for our discussions.

[deathwolf669]

Cool, thanks Zetapup.

Ah thanks Seerow