The fluff of wizard and psionic

[duburu]

can anyone tell me the fluff of wizard and psionic like what they can do. what the different, the energy they used to do the thing they do. in the world that they are reside in?

[random_guy]

I could be wrong on this, but I believe the fluff behind wizards is their power comes from their knowledge and understanding of the world around them. They use their understanding of arcane mysteries in order to bend the world around them to their will. Psionic classes alter the world around them through the use of raw willpower.

One way of looking at it is: wizards discover ways of interacting with matter that goes beyond what most people comprehend. With psionics, it's mind over matter.

[Asta Kask]

That is almost certainly up to those who create the world. I don't think you can give a generic answer to this.

[erikun]

The basic idea behind D&D wizards (and Vancian magic in general) is memorization. The magic itself is an arcane pattern that the wizard commits to memory. When the spell is cast, the pattern is completed and the magic leaves the wizard's mind (along with the memorized pattern) and then forgotten. It is something akin to memorizing a list of word five minutes before taking a quiz on them: they're in a slightly longer short-term memory, and it's only because of the wizard's great intelligence that they remain there all day.

The idea behind D&D psionics is that they are magic/powers inherent in the user. It's jut an ability that they have, like swinging a sword or sneaking around silently. Their PP level is a source of mental stamina for using their powers; more powerful powers require more PP to use. Expending all the PP means the psionic user is mentally exahusted, unable to use more powers until they rest.

[Psyren]

I've always viewed the divide this way:

Wizardry is about rigorous study of the world around them - magic as science or math.

Psionics is about study of the world within - magic as philosophy or self-actualization.

[Mastikator]

Wizardry is about manipulating stuff and creating stuff and energy out of nothing. It's like quasi-secular religious magic if that makes any sense.

Psionics is about bending reality to your will and reading minds and moving objects with your mind.

Psionics is common in science fiction. Star Wars had the Jedi who were for all intent and purpose psionic. Star Trek had various psychic races like Vulcans who could read minds, some could manipulate objects with their mind. The Q were psionic gods for all I know.
Wizardry is only common in fantastic medieval stories and some modern (like Supernatural).

[BWR]

Wizardry is about rigorous study of the world around them - magic as science or math.

Psionics is about study of the world within - magic as philosophy or self-actualization.

Traditionally it's the opposite. Magic is rigorous and studious, yes, but it is at core violation of natural laws, drawing on outer sources, on the Otherness of weirder realities. Psionics, adopted from various SF sources, is a supposedly scientifically based ability, hence why 2e psionics had things like 'psionic circuitry'. Psionics is indeed self-actualization, looking inwards to find power rather than outwards, which is what you do with magic, of both arcane and divine varieties. So sorcerers are basically just psionicists.

[Frozen_Feet]

In my take on the D&D base classes, the divide is as follows:

Wizardry is the study of alternate planes of existence. Arcane magic of this sort is hence imposing alternate laws of nature from another world on the wizard's.

Psions are introspectives. They use their mind to rule over matter, imposing their dreams and emotions on the world around them.

As per D&D traditions, there are of course many wizard spells that are decidedly psion-like in what they do or how they work. But even then there's the distinction of a wizard drawing his powers from an external source, while psion utilizes their internal power. The defining trait of a wizard is knowledge, where as for a psion it is willpower.

[Afgncaap5]

Lots of good answers, almost all better than this one:

In my campaign world, Wizards are people who figure out how the universe works, and how they can get power from that. Psions are those who know how to unlock the mysteries of their mind to power their desires to do things.

One of the oddities in my campaign world is that "arcane magic" is an umbrella term for hundreds of other disciplines, and wizards generally dabble in all sorts of things that could give them access to the power they crave. As such, the spell Telekinesis is an example of both wizardy and psionics at work; the wizard has learned enough secrets relating to their own mind to learn how to move things about just as a psion can. Similarly, they use power words that would usually be the realm of truenamers.

[Psyren]

Traditionally it's the opposite. Magic is rigorous and studious, yes, but it is at core violation of natural laws, drawing on outer sources, on the Otherness of weirder realities. Psionics, adopted from various SF sources, is a supposedly scientifically based ability, hence why 2e psionics had things like 'psionic circuitry'. Psionics is indeed self-actualization, looking inwards to find power rather than outwards, which is what you do with magic, of both arcane and divine varieties. So sorcerers are basically just psionicists.

Sorcery however is the product of heritage, accident, or simply cosmic coincidence. Psionics meanwhile is deliberate, both the thoughtful introspection of the psion and the channeled emotions of the wilder.

In short, while you cannot choose to be a sorcerer (well, you can in the metagame sense, but you know what I mean), you do have to choose to be a psion, even if it comes naturally to you once you've made that choice.

[AMFV]

Sorcery however is the product of heritage, accident, or simply cosmic coincidence. Psionics meanwhile is deliberate, both the thoughtful introspection of the psion and the channeled emotions of the wilder.

In short, while you cannot choose to be a sorcerer (well, you can in the metagame sense, but you know what I mean), you do have to choose to be a psion, even if it comes naturally to you once you've made that choice.

Well, depending on the fluff Psionics is generally a combination. It takes years of study to master what comes naturally, but you require a certain degree of natural gift. It's not really clear if the same applies to magic. I would say not typically, although that may vary a great deal from setting to setting.

[SiuiS]

In the original sources, magic was invoking the external powers of the world I. Bizarre ways to cause effects attuned to mystic phenomenon. Psionics was using internal discipline to harness energies of the body and mind only to cause lasting and drastic effects, literally mind over matter.

In 3e and beyond, the difference is much smaller. Magic is using your discipline and knowledge to create magical effects. Psionics is using your discipline and knowledge to create magical effects.


In fact, in third edition, wizards and sorcerers are uneducated psychics, basically doing the same thing as psions but without the mastery. They use their minds to achieve mystical effects, but add a layer of mystery cult religion and superstition to it.

[Urpriest]

The difference is pretty simple. Wizard is a class, or a type of person. Psionic is an adjective, that can apply to many things, not all of them people.

[Eldan]

In fact, in third edition, wizards and sorcerers are uneducated psychics, basically doing the same thing as psions but without the mastery. They use their minds to achieve mystical effects, but add a layer of mystery cult religion and superstition to it.

And for some reason, that gives them the ability to master an enormous amount of powers, while psions are limited to a handful of different applications?

Honestly, that explanation doesn't really seem to hold up. A wizard can know hundreds of spells. A psion knows perhaps two dozen.

[Kurald Galain]

can anyone tell me the fluff of wizard and psionic like what they can do. what the different, the energy they used to do the thing they do. in the world that they are reside in?
They're essentially the same; indeed, characters with powers like a D&D psion are usually called "wizards" in works of fiction. I can't think of any fantasy works, other than D&D books of course, that make a distinction between "spellcaster (with vancian preparation)", "spellcaster (with spontaneous slots)", and "spellcaster (with mana points)", i.e. wizard/sorcerer/psion.

[SiuiS]

And for some reason, that gives them the ability to master an enormous amount of powers, while psions are limited to a handful of different applications?

Honestly, that explanation doesn't really seem to hold up. A wizard can know hundreds of spells. A psion knows perhaps two dozen.

Name me a worthwhile difference between a wizard, and a psion with a very specific version of psychic reformation as a class feature? Beside the wizard getting their psychic reformation stolen.

Energy ball; five different spells, of mutable effect and caster level with meta magic applications built in.
Fireball; single spell with nothin built in, though still allowing mutable caster level with a raised minimum.

Who's got he better deal, here? Who's more versatile? Not the wizard. Same goes for a bunch of other powers.

[Rhynn]

Wizards (Essence casters) use the Essence of creation, the lingering power of the Ainulindalë, to work magic. Unfortunately, it is tainted by mordo, the Morgoth-element, because of Morgoth's attempts to twist and taint the Ainulindalë, and his dispersing of his power into Arda (similar to how Sauron put his power in the One Ring). Thus, Essence users are always in danger of being corrupted by mordo, particularly if they use magic for selfish or harmful ends.

Clerics (Channeling casters) Channel the power of the Valar (or of Morgoth) to work magic and miracles. This is a much "safer" way of using magic - unless one channels the power of Morgoth, which is inherently extremely corrupting.

Mentalists ("psionics") use their own internal power, of their mind or their fëa (soul). Elves are especially adept at this, because they have a much stronger "connection" between their fëa and hröa (body), and control over their fëa especially (to the point that they are able to separate their fëa and hröa at will - stop living - and can choose to remain in Arda after death, as "Houseless," disembodied fëa). These magic-users have a lower risk of corruption than Essence-users, but the mordo is part of every living being, including Elves, and ambition and greed can drive them into corruption.

All this power is essentially similar and derived from the Ainulindalë and ultimately Iluvatar, but it is mastered and expessed differently.

... what, was this a D&D question? Well, up yours! :smallyuk: And also D&D doesn't actually tell you how any magic works in a cosmogenic or metaphysical sense - just the mechanics of adjudicating the effects. This leaves every GM to come up with their own explanations for magic.

I actually use something like the above in my D&D setting: wizards and clerics use the same magic power, but they use it in different ways: wizards (who use Intelligence) approach their powers in a rational, scientific, hermetic way; often esoteric and cloaked in mystery, but still based on understanding and mastery. Clerics (who use Wisdom) approach things through faith, strength of will, and personal experience, striving for enlightenment based not on reason, but on emotion. There are no psionics.

In my Dark Sun setting, and more or less in the canon one, wizards use solar power (drawn out of things that ultimately get their energy from the sun plants and, if equipped with the right profane knowledge and some obsidian tools, animals - including humans and demihumans), clerics use power from the Elemental Planes (channeled through the Astral), and psions use their internal power.

[Eldan]

Name me a worthwhile difference between a wizard, and a psion with a very specific version of psychic reformation as a class feature? Beside the wizard getting their psychic reformation stolen.

Energy ball; five different spells, of mutable effect and caster level with meta magic applications built in.
Fireball; single spell with nothin built in, though still allowing mutable caster level with a raised minimum.

Who's got he better deal, here? Who's more versatile? Not the wizard. Same goes for a bunch of other powers.

Oh, absolutely, psions can do more with one power. But wizards get far more different powers. Level 1, a psion has 3 powers. A wizard easily has 5 level 1 spells, without much effort. Plus all level 0 spells. Later levels, the psion always has around 2*level powers. A wizard learns 2 powers for free when he levels up and however many he can scribe into his book.
Plus, you know. The psion's energy ball power may be more flexible than fireball. But that hardly matters when one side has Reality Revision and the other side has Wish. All the very best spells are very, very flexible. Gate. Polymorph. Genesis. Major Creation.

[SiuiS]

Wizards (Essence casters) use the Essence of creation, the lingering power of the Ainulindalë, to work magic. Unfortunately, it is tainted by mordo, the Morgoth-element, because of Morgoth's attempts to twist and taint the Ainulindalë, and his dispersing of his power into Arda (similar to how Sauron put his power in the One Ring). Thus, Essence users are always in danger of being corrupted by mordo, particularly if they use magic for selfish or harmful ends.

Clerics (Channeling casters) Channel the power of the Valar (or of Morgoth) to work magic and miracles. This is a much "safer" way of using magic - unless one channels the power of Morgoth, which is inherently extremely corrupting.

Mentalists ("psionics") use their own internal power, of their mind or their fëa (soul). Elves are especially adept at this, because they have a much stronger "connection" between their fëa and hröa (body), and control over their fëa especially (to the point that they are able to separate their fëa and hröa at will - stop living - and can choose to remain in Arda after death, as "Houseless," disembodied fëa). These magic-users have a lower risk of corruption than Essence-users, but the mordo is part of every living being, including Elves, and ambition and greed can drive them into corruption.

All this power is essentially similar and derived from the Ainulindalë and ultimately Iluvatar, but it is mastered and expessed differently.


Fantastic! How authentic is this? I'd love to be able to look into it.


Oh, absolutely, psions can do more with one power. But wizards get far more different powers. Level 1, a psion has 3 powers. A wizard easily has 5 level 1 spells, without much effort. Plus all level 0 spells. Later levels, the psion always has around 2*level powers. A wizard learns 2 powers for free when he levels up and however many he can scribe into his book.

So a wizard is a wizard because of his book? Give psions a book. Problem solved. I mean, it's not my fault that the superstitious psions are so specialized in swapping their powers known list.


Plus, you know. The psion's energy ball power may be more flexible than fireball. But that hardly matters when one side has Reality Revision and the other side has Wish. All the very best spells are very, very flexible. Gate. Polymorph. Genesis. Major Creation.

So an arcane caster isn't a wizard until 17th level, then. Got it. :p

[Eldan]

So a wizard is a wizard because of his book? Give psions a book. Problem solved. I mean, it's not my fault that the superstitious psions are so specialized in swapping their powers known list.

How are wizards more specialized than psions? They start with twice the amount of powers, right out of the gate, at level 1. Yes, yes, psychic reformation, but that isn't online right away. Wizards have their books from the start.


So an arcane caster isn't a wizard until 17th level, then. Got it. :p

Prestidigitation, level 0. Which psion power is that flexible again? Oh, right.

[SiuiS]

How are wizards more specialized than psions? They start with twice the amount of powers, right out of the gate, at level 1. Yes, yes, psychic reformation, but that isn't online right away. Wizards have their books from the start.

The ones specialized in switching their list every day are more specialized than the ones not specialized in switching their list every day.



Prestidigitation, level 0. Which psion power is that flexible again? Oh, right.

Prestidigitation is not capable of permanently creating matter, conjuring an entity, creating a demiplane or any of that, so it's not really relevant. But, astral construct is that flexible, and unlike prestidigitation can achieve useful in combat effects. Think I win that one. :smallwink:

[Rhynn]

Fantastic! How authentic is this? I'd love to be able to look into it.

It's Rolemaster/MERP fitted into ambiguously canon material mostly from The History of Middle-earth by Christopher Tolkien (based on his father's notes), largely drawn from Chris Seeman by way of Sampsa Rydman. Fëa and hröa, Houseless spirits, the Morgoth-element and Morgoth's ring are all from those sources; the rest is interpretation. Tolkien's letters also include a lot of unpublished "facts" about Middle-earth.

I think the difficulties a lot of people see in gaming in Middle-earth are a matter of being presented a tiny fraction of the world (geographically and chronologically) in detail in LotR and The Hobbit, and a larger but more vague and ambiguously true fraction in Silmarillion (it's important to recall that it was compiled by Christopher from his father's notes, and many of the elements in it were unfinished or not JRRT's latest version; and the latest versions weren't always the best, either). The 3000 years of the Third Age prior to the War of the Ring, for instance, are largely a blank (with some very broad outlines, mostly regarding the successions of Arnor and Gondor)... filled with tantalizing hints. I pretty much take the Argonath as justification to have mortal magic-users running around all over the place in 1409 III; 1600 years later, it's all faded into myth and legend and they've all disappeared.

For instance, JRRT came up with at least five origins for orcs, and Christopher chose one - one that Tolkien himself had abandoned in his latest thoughts!

1. In the Silmarillion, we're sort of offhandedly told that Melkor twisted and tortured Orcs to create Elves. JRRT abandoned this idea, not being comfortable with it, and it does pose a problem: he states that Elves can just will themselves to die and go to Mandos, so why would these Elves submit? Maybe they were corrupted and willfully debased themselves... in any case, these Orcs would probably be theoretically immortal, which would explain why some of the goblins in Goblin-town recognized swords forged in Gondolin and lost for hundreds or thousands of years!

2. Orcs may instead have been corrupted Men. This explanation doesn't quite hold on its own, though, because Elves encountered Orcs before Men were awakened.

3. Orcs may have been created from beasts. Tolkien seemed to develop this idea most: these Orcs would not have had fëa (souls) like Men and Elves and Dwarves did, for only Iluvatar can grant fëa, and animals (except giant eagles) do not have them. He even explained why these Orcs could speak (fëa are required for speech): they're only very advanced parrots, repeating "recordings" created (wittingly or unwittingly) by Morgoth in them. These Orcs would probably turn into mere animals, mentally, without the will of the Enemy to animate them, as happened after the Ring was destroyed and Sauron was destroyed.

4. Orcs may have been created from the "heat and slime of the earth," or their "bodies from stone and their spirits from hatred." This has a problem in that only Iluvatar can create life, but perhaps these Orcs were not truly alive; see above for their speech. These Orcs might be completely unable to act, or even live, without the will of the Enemy animating them.

½. Some Orcs were almost certainly "Orc-formed" Maiar, drawn from the Maiar spirits Morgoth corrupted before Arda was even created. Tolkien specifically names the King of Goblin-town as one, IIRC, and unless all Orcs are immortal, any Orc chief who lived for centuries (like Azog, etc.) was probably one. Gothmog, the commander of Sauron's forces, may have been such a creature.

I also personally love the idea of corrupted Elves (seriously advanced in ICE's Court of Ardor) and Houseless spirits animating corpses at the command of the Necromancer, and "elf-demons" that are either powerful Noldorin Houseless or Elves who have become wraiths similar to the Nazgûl.

Random side-note: the Morgoth-element may have been especially srong in gold (explaining its corrupting power), and absent in silver.

[Segev]

In my own D&D setting, which uses the "psionics are different" variant rules, magic - arcane or divine - works by using ritual and contract and authority to command, cajole, and persuade spirits that exist just under the surface of visible reality to act in concerted ways to create specific effects.

Clerics pray to their gods and get authority over the spiritual servants thereof, invoked in formal ritual prayers and commands. Druids venerate nature and in that veneration develop a place within the hierarchy of the spirits thereof; they pray for spells in the sense that they lay out their needs and are granted authority and permission to fulfill them.

Arcane casters instead rely on contract and pacts. Sorcerers negotiate with and befriend spirits high and low, and develop a coterie of such beings who trail around them and listen for the words of invocation; their spells are attention-getters to direct their allies, servants, and comrades. Wizards are lawyers; they research their spells by finding existing pacts with the various spirit courts and the rules that have been laid out by the masters thereof, or in some cases seek out said masters to negotiate new ones in a legalistic fashion; they then perform specific deeds when preparing their spells: these deeds are standing payment clauses for the various contracts the wizard has assembled, and permit him to invoke the contract with authority at a later time (when he casts the spell).

The limits of divine casters' spells per day are based on the power of their faith and their wisdom in pursuing the duties of their orders. These factors generate greater favor with their gods and less weariness (or at least more obedience) from the spirits who perform the deeds.

The limits of arcane casters' spells per day are based on the weariness of a sorcerer's spiritual companions and on the amount of skill the wizard has in balancing all the obligations he is putting together to make up his repertoire.


Psions and Wilders, meanwhile, are truly using the power of their will to directly alter the reality of the physical world. This relies on a canon bit of deep history to the setting that is simply not known by any of the mortal races: the consciousenesses of the sentient beings are fragments of a shattered god's mind and soul, and the world itself is his physical body, reshaped by his divine wife in her efforts to shelter, protect, and piece him back together. Psionic powers are the will of these fragments that have trained themselves actually reaching out and bending the body to their design, much as a human can use his will to bend his elbow or type on a keyboard.

[The Oni]

Prestidigitation is not capable of permanently creating matter, conjuring an entity, creating a demiplane or any of that, so it's not really relevant. But, astral construct is that flexible, and unlike prestidigitation can achieve useful in combat effects. Think I win that one. :smallwink:

Forgive me for being overly pragmatic, but prestidigitation is capable of doing anything you can bluff your DM into not vetoing. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Prestidigitation, level 0. Which psion power is that flexible again? Oh, right.

Actually, Psions get Prestidigitation too - Secrets of Sarlona pg. 133. What's more, the psionic version is merged with Mending.

[SiuiS]

Forgive me for being overly pragmatic, but prestidigitation is capable of doing anything you can bluff your DM into not vetoing. :smallbiggrin:

Alright, yes. Prestidigitation is frankly amazing and I've used it for all sorts of phantasmagoric things. A demiplane, however, isn't one of them.


Actually, Psions get Prestidigitation too - Secrets of Sarlona pg. 133. What's more, the psionic version is merged with Mending.

What, really? Cool, I think I actually have that one!


Aww, no, I've only got explorer's guide :smallfrown: