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View Full Version : [PF/3.X] Tier 2 to Tier 1 (or vice versa)



The Insanity
2014-02-23, 11:31 PM
What would each of the various Tier 2 classes need to become Tier 1, but preferably without making too drastic changes or losing out on their mechanical feel and theme?
Please, do not come in here and say "Oh, why won't you just use Tier 1 classes?" They are different. A Sorcerer has different features than a Wizard and he's a spontaneous caster, so just using Wizard would miss the point of wanting to play a Sorcerer.
As an example lets take Oracle. It would be easiest to just swap Oracle casting with Cleric casting, but then Oracle wouldn't be a spontaneous caster anymore. So any ideas?

Before anyone points it out, yes, I do realize that making a Tier 1 class into Tier 2 would be much easier and could potentially make my work as a DM easier, but I don't like nerfing, so I'd rather give my players more power by bringing Tier 2's up. But just in case my plan isn't doable, or too much work, I'm also interested how could we bring Tier 1 classes down to Tier 2, again, preferably without losing too much of the class's feel.

ryu
2014-02-23, 11:37 PM
Bring sorcerers to tier one eh? Have you read the spell paragon surge?

Snowbluff
2014-02-23, 11:38 PM
Paragon Surge.

For T1, just don't let them scribe scrolls into their books, or use the 3.5 Spontaneous Divine Casters variant.

Also, class features are funny.

EDIT: Spellthiefed by Ryu. You win... this round! *shakes fists*

137beth
2014-02-23, 11:41 PM
Also, Wild Arcana (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/archmage), or its divine counterpart, Inspired Spell. Pretty much eliminates the tier 1-2 boundary.

ryu
2014-02-23, 11:48 PM
It feels so good to be the one doing that for once.

The Insaniac
2014-02-24, 12:07 AM
Giving T2s the Spirit Shaman's method of selecting spells known (select spells known at the beginning of the day) would probably take them up to T1.

Kalaska'Agathas
2014-02-24, 12:29 AM
Giving T2s the Spirit Shaman's method of selecting spells known (select spells known at the beginning of the day) would probably take them up to T1.

This. You could even go so far as to give them additional spells retrieved for having a high casting stat (in addition to their bonus spells per day) without it getting to be too much. Just use the Bonus Spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#abilitiesAndSpellcasters) chart as a "Bonus Spells Retrieved" chart in addition to it's normal use.

Kudaku
2014-02-24, 01:41 AM
You could do something similar to the Arcanist from the ACG playtest. It prepares spells from a spellbook normally, but then uses spontaneous casting from the spells prepared - think of it as a sorcerer who prepares a new spell list each day.

Paragon Surge will catapult any spontaneous caster way into tier 1, but it doesn't come online till lvl 6 - depending on what game level spectrum you prefer to play in, that might be a non-issue or a big one.

Person_Man
2014-02-24, 09:00 AM
+1 to The Insaniac's comment.

Give a class the ability to choose new spells each day, 1st through 9th level spells, and access to any core caster list (Wizard, Druid, Cleric), and it's Tier 1.

Though I would argue that in most cases, using Spontaneous + the ability to choose new spells each day is more powerful then memorized spells. (Tier 0?) If I know 3 first level spells and I can choose to cast any combination of them 4 times per day, I'm more flexible then a class that has to memorize 4 specific first level spells.

Larkas
2014-02-24, 10:53 AM
Eh, you could always slap the Magister (http://arcanaevolved.wikia.com/wiki/Magister)'s casting style to the Sorcerer.