A question about using Combat feats.

[Jesterface]

This may seem fairly obvious; but I was wondering whether or not Power Attack and Combat Expertise could be used simultaneously. RAW doesn't say anything against it, but it just seems super-cheesy...

[Andezzar]

There is no rule against it. You get a penalty to your attack from to source two sources to get a bonus to two different things. I see no problem with it.

[HammeredWharf]

I think you can. I don't know what's cheesy about it, because you won't hit anything with those penalties.

[Zombimode]

This may seem fairly obvious; but I was wondering whether or not Power Attack and Combat Expertise could be used simultaneously. RAW doesn't say anything against it, but it just seems super-cheesy...

Those two feats present attack option that do not interfere with each other. Let make a little dialog:

Combat Expertise: "Do you plan to use the attack action or the full attack action in melee?"
You: "Yes, indeed."
Combat Expertise: "Great! And do you want to take a penalty to your attack roll to gain an equal bonus to your AC?"
You: "Uhm, sure, why not."
Power Attack chimes in: "I've heard you're about to make an melee attack roll?"
You: "Yeah, I'm totally about to do."
Power Attack: "Cool!. Here's the deal: How about taking a penalty to your attack roll for MOAH DAMAGE?!"
You: "Uhhh, but my attack bonus this turn already sucks because of Combat Exp.."
Power Attack: "MOAH DAMAGE!"
You: "Ah, fine. Lets roll a 20!"


There is nothing cheesy about it. Lets say you have a BAB of 5. You can take a penalty up to -5 with Combat Expertise and then take an additional penalty up to -5 with Power Attack.

[Jesterface]

Good point, I'm thinking two steps ahead of myself with a Duskblade build. Gratuitous use of True Strike is involved.

Cheers for the replies :)

[Person_Man]

Combat Expertise is a poorly written Feat.

The +5 cap keeps it from being truly useful, and gaining +5 to AC is almost never worth taking a -5 penalty to-hit, unless you've decided that you really don't care about hitting.

Consider asking your DM to "un-cap" Combat Expertise as a house rule. I could see plenty of situations where a 10th+ level character would basically give up their turn to gain a 10+ bonus to-hit. It also strengthens Full BAB classes, which are usually on the weaker side of the Tier rankings.

Alternatively, there are a bunch of other methods you can use to boost your AC, especially if magic is on the table.

[KillianHawkeye]

As long as you take the penalty from using both feats, there is no problem with using them side by side. Trying to convince the DM that you can use the same penalty to fuel both feats on the other hand....... just don't.

[Jesterface]

Thanks guys. As for convincing the DM, don't worry, I am the DM, this is for making a character for a player.