918- Reference to familicide?

[DanaK]

In 918, an EoB soldier makes reference to "having whole families wiped out". Does that mean people have heard of the effects of Familicide all across the continent by now, and simply attributed it to Tarquin's work? Or am I reading too much into it?

[Shale]

Knowing Tarquin, it seems much more likely that he actually does wipe out the families of people who look at him funny.

[AKA_Bait]

Knowing Tarquin, it seems much more likely that he actually does wipe out the families of people who look at him funny.

Yes. I think this was included not as a reference to familicide, but as an explanation for why getting killed by Elan for refusing to fight back would be the preferable option to angering Tarquin by hurting his son.

[Vinyadan]

Good question. I suppose only the Giant can answer. Of course, this would be a transverse reference, only readable by the reader, and a message about how wrong V's act of wiping whole families out was. I don't think the soldiers knew about the familicide spell, although, if someone had found a bunch of related corpses, he might have asked himself who could have done that, and who wields enough power for that.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Given that Tarquin believes that you can't make an omelette without murdering hens as a warning to others, I would say he probably literally wipes out whole families.

[Porthos]

It's not exactly an unheard of practice in both literature and RL. Familicide didn't even cross my mind when I read that line.

[orrion]

Going with "reading too much into it."

Tarquin just kills their families if they do something he doesn't like. The soldiers believe that hurting Elan falls under that category.

[KillianHawkeye]

It's not exactly an unheard of practice in both literature and RL. Familicide didn't even cross my mind when I read that line.

Same here. It was just to illustrate that the soldiers were more afraid of Tarquin than anything else.

[Takver]

But on the other hand, any families slain by Familicide in the Empire of Blood probably were attributed to Tarquin (or a general "agents of the Empress" if most people don't know exactly who Tarquin is.) Similarly, 727 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0727.html) has a nice bit of misdirection where we're led to assume, as readers, that Tarquin murdered Penelope. It's a very reasonable assumption, as he's been heavily implied to have murdered at least some of his other wives.

Probably despots and gangsters all over the planet are being credited with various of the Familicide murders. Unless there's some conspiracy theorist out there who wants to compare notes, it's a lot more reasonable to assume a family was slaughtered by someone closer to home who had an actual reason for it. What really happened is basically extremely unlikely.

[orrion]

But on the other hand, any families slain by Familicide in the Empire of Blood probably were attributed to Tarquin (or a general "agents of the Empress" if most people don't know exactly who Tarquin is.) Similarly, 727 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0727.html) has a nice bit of misdirection where we're led to assume, as readers, that Tarquin murdered Penelope. It's a very reasonable assumption, as he's been heavily implied to have murdered at least some of his other wives.

Probably despots and gangsters all over the planet are being credited with various of the Familicide murders. Unless there's some conspiracy theorist out there who wants to compare notes, it's a lot more reasonable to assume a family was slaughtered by someone closer to home who had an actual reason for it. What really happened is basically extremely unlikely.

Ok, but it's rather obvious that Tarquin had already established a pattern of behavior by the time Familicide was cast. Whatever deaths there were as a result of it may have reinforced his reputation, but the deaths didn't create it.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Giant recently stated that the death toll outside of the dragons is smaller because it's now canon that only the Draketooths mated with the black dragons. Can't find the quote right now though.

[Bulldog Psion]

Considering that the same has been done -- many times -- in our own world, which is completely lacking the spell "familicide," I'd say that it's just that Tarquin will kill their families if they do something he doesn't like.

There are always quite a few people who don't give a hoot whether they, personally, live or die. Or who at least care for their lives less than they do for some idea, belief, or even passing rage at some slight or injustice.

There are a lot less people who are willing to take an action that will lead to their entire family being slaughtered, too.

It's a highly effective -- and, of course, utterly evil -- tool of coercion. I'd be surprised if Tarquin didn't use it.

[Shale]

Also, I'm pretty sure the Giant recently stated that the death toll outside of the dragons is smaller because it's now canon that only the Draketooths mated with the black dragons. Can't find the quote right now though.

True, but that's still a lot of extended families thanks to how they propagated.

[Chronos]

Even if it wasn't a reference by the soldier, it could still be a reference by the author. When the soldier says that, we know that Tarquin's evil because he would murder the families of his enemies. Which calls attention to V's act being evil for murdering the families of es enemies.

[ChristianSt]

Ok, but it's rather obvious that Tarquin had already established a pattern of behavior by the time Familicide was cast. Whatever deaths there were as a result of it may have reinforced his reputation, but the deaths didn't create it.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Giant recently stated that the death toll outside of the dragons is smaller because it's now canon that only the Draketooths mated with the black dragons. Can't find the quote right now though.
Here you go, thanks to the Index of the Giant's Comments (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313510):


4.) Explicitly, I am going to say that no black dragon, ever, in the history of the world, ever mated with any human being until Girard's grandparents. Some black dragons mated with other species, and some other colors of dragon mated with humans. But black dragons and humans? One time only in the history of OOTS-world. That's canon now. Done.

It doesn't really say how big the "death toll" of other species is compared to black dragons. It only says that black dragons don't mate that often with humans (i.e. exactly one time) - other species are still fine.

We explicitly know that there are several non-Draketooth human victims, though (shown in Strip #943 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0843.html)). But it is possible that there are several more not shown.

It is unclear who got credited for those deaths (and in which regions of the world they happened), but depending on whom you ask, it is pretty likely that they say it was some criminal (be it Tarquin, maybe Bozzok, or some other person/group (to us unknown))

[orrion]

Even if it wasn't a reference by the soldier, it could still be a reference by the author. When the soldier says that, we know that Tarquin's evil because he would murder the families of his enemies. Which calls attention to V's act being evil for murdering the families of es enemies.

I guess, but when you've dropped a bunch of anvils there's not much need for poking with sticks. Anyone who ignored the anvil hitting them in the head is going to ignore the stick.

[137beth]

I got the sense that killing someone's family was a standard punishment in the EoB. Slowly and painfully, while the punished person watches, rather than the instantaneous death of familicide.

[Vinyadan]

It doesn't really say how big the "death toll" of other species is compared to black dragons. It only says that black dragons don't mate that often with humans (i.e. exactly one time) - other species are still fine.


Who knows, maybe V killed Aarindarius. That would be a twist.

[orrion]

Who knows, maybe V killed Aarindarius. That would be a twist.

... How? Aarindarius has never even appeared.

[Vinyadan]

... How? Aarindarius has never even appeared.

Neither did the Draketeeth, before we found them dead. :smalltongue:

I'm not saying it's a smart theory, I'm just saying it could theoretically have happened.

[Takver]

True, but that's still a lot of extended families thanks to how they propagated.
Right. And those families could be anywhere on the planet. though probably most of them are on the same continent as the Draketooths.

[orrion]

Neither did the Draketeeth, before we found them dead. :smalltongue:

I'm not saying it's a smart theory, I'm just saying it could theoretically have happened.

That was a twist because they were involved in the story and we knew they were involved in the story because Girard had been in the Scribble comics and recent events had shown the clan to still be active.

Aarindarius hasn't been involved in any manner. It wouldn't really be a twist if he were found dead at this point.