Can't follow the ECL buyback rules

[justiceforall]

Help?

I understand the concept, but I cannot figure out how to apply ECL buyback to things when using the Savage Species/Libris Mortis level progressions.

Two examples I'd like to understand:

1. I play a minotaur from 1st level

2. I play a wight from 1st level

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

When buying off level a adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), you have to gain your current LA x3 in class levels before buying it off each time you want to reduce it by one. Racial HD don't count, so levels in Minotaur or Wight cannot be bought off until you've gained quite a few class levels after gaining every level of the racial progression. So it doesn't interact at all with those racial level progressions. You have to complete the entire racial progression first, then start taking class levels, and only the class levels you gain after the racial progression will count toward enabling the buyoff of any level adjustment.

For a racial level progression that does interact with LA buyoff, check out the Savage Progressions articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp). According to the rules for those (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a), "Characters are not required to complete all the levels of a given template class in uninterrupted succession."

For example, let's say go Half-Dragon Template Class 1/ Warblade 3. At that point you can buy off that +1 LA of Half-Dragon, removing the level but keeping its benefits, at a cost of 3,000 xp (current ECL -1, x1000). You go down to ECL 3 xp, and your levels are reduced to 3 total. You're now a level below the rest of the party, so you'll gain more xp per encounter and catch back up. Say your next level is used to take the second level of the Half-Dragon Template Class, then the next three in Warblade. That puts you at Warblade 3/ Half-Dragon 1/ Warblade 3, you've gained three levels since gaining that +1 LA of Half-Dragon, so you can buy it off, paying 6,000 xp to do so and going down to ECL 6 in both experience and level. Your next level is in the third level of the Half-Dragon Template Class, then your next three in Warblade, so Warblade 6/ Half-Dragon 1/ Warblade 3. Again you've gained your LA x3 in class levels, and can buy it off for 9,000 xp. You've completely bought off the entire Half-Dragon template for 18,000 xp by the time the party hits around level 10. Compare this to starting with the entire template, and buying off each point at your 9th, 15th, and 18th class levels. This costs 53,000 xp, and you don't finish buying it off until the party is at least level 19.

Just remember, racial HD don't count toward how soon you can start buying off a LA. You have to gain your current LA x3 in class levels (levels in classes and prestige classes that grant HD which aren't racial HD) before you can buy off a point of LA. How soon you can buy off a point of LA is based on how many levels were gained since you last bought off a point of LA.

As another example, let's say you start as a Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) with the Half-Minotaur template from Dragon 313. This makes you large size, with stats something like Str +16, Dex -2, Con +8, Int -4, Wis -2, Cha -2, plus all the other benefits of that race/template combination, for only a +1 LA. You can gain three class levels, then buy that off. Your next level can be spent on Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) assuming you get the spell Mineralize Warrior cast on you (it's expensive and enslaves you to the caster for a year, if you begin play at 5th+ level put it in your character's history). After gaining three more class levels, you can buy that off as well. Spend your next level to start gaining Half-Dragon as above, and by your 15th class level you can have that completely gained and bought off.

Take Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) as your 3rd level feat and the +10% XP bonus will help you catch back up to the rest of the party. Plus you get +10% to your current XP when taking it, so at ECL 4 when you gain it you'll have at least 6,000 xp, so you get +600 from that. You pay 3,000 xp to buy off your +1 LA, but you keep that bonus xp that the item familiar got you! Your 3,000 xp turned into 3,300 xp, then when you spent the 3,000 xp you kept that 300! It basically reduces the total cost of LA buyoff by 10% but gives you that extra ahead of time.

[sgdirtbag]

So, I have a question about this but combined with the ECL/Racial Hit Dice.

So, if I want to play a "insert random monster manual race here" just because I want to (for example) play a ... Rakshasa ..um.. Rogue. 7 HD, LA +7. Other than getting the book that has me level the Rakshasa up to level 7 or 14, or what ever, are there any printed rules, optional or whatever, that will allow me to level Rogue with Rakshasa at the same time?

I am ignoring playing in a "power" game where the DM will let us play any race we want, and all versions of homebrew. The only way I can think that might be feasible, is bamboozling the DM into letting me play it as a gestalt, with one side being the race and one being the class; and then finding the "official" monster level progression.

If there is, can someone explain how it would happen please?

[One Step Two]

So, I have a question about this but combined with the ECL/Racial Hit Dice.

So, if I want to play a "insert random monster manual race here" just because I want to (for example) play a ... Rakshasa ..um.. Rogue. 7 HD, LA +7. Other than getting the book that has me level the Rakshasa up to level 7 or 14, or what ever, are there any printed rules, optional or whatever, that will allow me to level Rogue with Rakshasa at the same time?

I am ignoring playing in a "power" game where the DM will let us play any race we want, and all versions of homebrew. The only way I can think that might be feasible, is bamboozling the DM into letting me play it as a gestalt, with one side being the race and one being the class; and then finding the "official" monster level progression.

If there is, can someone explain how it would happen please?

As given in Core and UA, a Rakshasa has 7 HD and LA +7, the first time you could buy off even of it's LA is after 21 levels of rogue, and therefore ECL 35. So you know, that kinda sucks. Gestalt is one of the only ways to be able to use Monster classes with high RHD and LA, and I've found, that while doing so, you do not allow LA buyoff, you simply have to wear the Adjustment.

[sgdirtbag]

As given in Core and UA, a Rakshasa has 7 HD and LA +7, the first time you could buy off even of it's LA is after 21 levels of rogue, and therefore ECL 35. So you know, that kinda sucks. Gestalt is one of the only ways to be able to use Monster classes with high RHD and LA, and I've found, that while doing so, you do not allow LA buyoff, you simply have to wear the Adjustment.

Thanks. Pretty sure I get it all now.