Getting Epic Feats pre Epic.

[Silva Stormrage]

Out of curiosity is there any way of getting epic feats pre epic?

I know of martial monk and the debatable old dragonwrought kobold trick.

In particular I wanted Eldritch Sculpter which allows you to use eldritch blast twice a round. https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a

Any generic tricks for this? I am the DM but I prefer to do things by the book.

[Chronos]

For the particular feat you're looking at, even dragonwrought kobold won't help you, since you've also got a skill prerequisite at 24 ranks. You'd need something that ignores all prerequisites, not just the [epic] tag, and I don't think there's anything that will work.

And of all the feats on that page, Eldritch Sculptor is the one you're looking at? I'd go for Shadowmaster-- Every Conjuration spell of 8th level or less, at will, is a big deal. Eldritch Sculptor isn't much better than Eldritch Glaive, and in some ways worse.

[bekeleven]

For the particular feat you're looking at, even dragonwrought kobold won't help you, since you've also got a skill prerequisite at 24 ranks. You'd need something that ignores all prerequisites, not just the [epic] tag, and I don't think there's anything that will work.You could take it at level 6 if you took 5 major bloodlines and maxed all bloodline levels before level 2. Using the common interpretation of the somewhat ambiguously worded bloodline rules, this would run you 30K XP, so your party would have just hit level 8. (Although with River XP you would gain XP faster and they'd be closer to 7.)

You can do it at level 3 with 6 major bloodlines, and your party would be level 7 (although with River, again, gaps are lessened). However, scrounging up the skill points would be rather difficult, especially if you were a warlock (2+Int every level).

Both of these involve making your build rather ridiculous. I wouldn't recommend either for real play. Take Eldritch Glaive (or claws) if you want to play a warlock for dps.

[zlefin]

If you have something with some racial HD, and are going by CR rather than ECL, it should be possible to get something with 21+ HD and enough warlock levels to qualify, barely.
I'm not entirely sure that having 21+ HD (including HD from levels) is enough to qualify for epic feats, but I think it is.

[Silva Stormrage]

You could take it at level 6 if you took 5 major bloodlines and maxed all bloodline levels before level 2. Using the common interpretation of the somewhat ambiguously worded bloodline rules, this would run you 30K XP, so your party would have just hit level 8. (Although with River XP you would gain XP faster and they'd be closer to 7.)

You can do it at level 3 with 6 major bloodlines, and your party would be level 7 (although with River, again, gaps are lessened). However, scrounging up the skill points would be rather difficult, especially if you were a warlock (2+Int every level).

Both of these involve making your build rather ridiculous. I wouldn't recommend either for real play. Take Eldritch Glaive (or claws) if you want to play a warlock for dps.

I am the DM in this case and the reason I wanted the feat was so I could have a build that dual wields glaives (Activate two eldirtch blasts modified by eldirtch glaive with one full attack can be refluffed to dual wielding easily enough)

It does seem like the best solution would be high HD monster with low cr and abuse non associated class level though. Maybe bloodlines will work though I will see if I can tinker with anything to make it work.

[zlefin]

How pre-epic do you want it?
Even with associated class levels you should be able to find a chassis that could get it at around 19 or so.


Alternately, you could just make a lot of the epic feats available to anyone at level 11+; I'm playing with a DM right now who allows that. A lot of the more combat oriented feats simply aren't that powerful, and allowing them at 11+ isn't a problem for balance.

[Silva Stormrage]

I need it below CR 20 as the only constraint. Now the issue is just finding a cool enough chassis for it. If need be I can pump up the HD with the ludicrous 4 HD = +1 cr rule for advancing certain types of monsters.

[Rubik]

I need it below CR 20 as the only constraint. Now the issue is just finding a cool enough chassis for it. If need be I can pump up the HD with the ludicrous 4 HD = +1 cr rule for advancing certain types of monsters.There are plenty of monsters with epic HD at or below CR 20. Look at the tarrasque, for instance. Add a low CR template that makes him Evil, then equip him with a cursed Holy weapon on barding spikes and tail scythe or some such.

[BrokenChord]

There are plenty of monsters with epic HD at or below CR 20. Look at the tarrasque, for instance. Add a low CR template that makes him Evil, then equip him with a cursed Holy weapon on barding spikes and tail scythe or some such.

That is... An insanely cool mental image.

As for the topic, yeah, gonna agree with the "lots of HD pumping on high HD low CR creature" plan. Really, using non-associated rules on a humanoid to actually get Epic Warlock levels is strictly better, but... That would be kind of cheap to use against pre-Epic characters.

[Rubik]

I haven't read your entire 'fic yet, but I'm getting there.

If you need an idea for a force strong enough to cow entire pantheons of gods, consider this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13392564&postcount=12) Note that you can gain the HD of a devastation beetle, combined with a bard's Inspire Greatness to reach level 130. Then add on a few hundred different strains of lycanthropy, and retrain all the animal HD you get as class levels. Even if you can't retrain, your effective manifester level will skyrocket as the HD add up. Then start using the Fusion/Astral Seed technique, but do so with trustworthy commoners. Prior to manifesting Astral Seed, however, switch control of the Fusion'd body with the other person involved and have him manifest Astral Seed. When Fusion ends, have the other person kill himself, only to come back as (basically) a copy of what he was while Fusion'd.

Then you end up with an army of absurdly powerful creatures, each capable of rewriting reality at will. A single one of these should be able to take on anything short of Pun Pun or an overdeity.

Note that John can use this to give himself class levels and insert himself into the D&D ruleset (or more accurately, insert the D&D ruleset into himself*).

*No homo**

**Totally homo

[Gemini476]

Out of curiosity is there any way of getting epic feats pre epic?

I know of martial monk and the debatable old dragonwrought kobold trick.

In particular I wanted Eldritch Sculpter which allows you to use eldritch blast twice a round. https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a

Any generic tricks for this? I am the DM but I prefer to do things by the book.

Actually, the "old dragonwrought kobold trick" isn't really all that debatable.

EPIC FEATS
These feats are available to characters of 21st level or higher.
Dragons of at least old age also can choose these feats even
if they have no class levels. A selection of epic feats appropriate for dragons is presented here. See the Epic Level Handbook for more epic feats.

So even an Old Half-Dragon qualifies for [Epic] feats - it's just that no-one really plays Old Half-Dragons when Dragonwrought Kobolds are an option. One feat is cheaper than LA+3, plus you get better stats.

Martial Monk, however, is pretty debatable. Are epic fighter bonus feats on the regular fighter bonus feat list, or are they separate (and hence inaccessible to the Martial Monk)? No one knows for sure.


But yeah, that's a pretty bad feat to aim towards. If you still want it, you could just be high level and have someone cast the Complete Divine version of Curse of Lycanthropy on you - if the extra hit dice from the template push you into HD 21+, you're good to go. That spell is kind of weird, though, since there's a completely different spell with the same name that was reprinted in the Spell Compendium. You could just get the template by having a werebear bite you or something, though.

I think that works, at least.