Specialized Arcane Class Party

[rmnimoc]

I saw the 4 wizard party (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332181&page=1) thread and it made me curious. How effective do you think a party consisting of the more specialized arcane classes (beguiler, dread necro, etc.) would be, and what would your optimal party of them look like?

Assuming a level 1 start, appropriate WBL, cr appropriate (+/-4) encounters, and a four member party. Duplicate classes are allowed.

[ryu]

I saw the 4 wizard party (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332181&page=1) thread and it made me curious. How effective do you think a party consisting of the more specialized arcane classes (beguiler, dread necro, etc.) would be, and what would your optimal party of them look like?

Assuming a level 1 start, appropriate WBL, cr appropriate (+/-4) encounters, and a four member party. Duplicate classes are allowed.

Are class that use an arcane class but also have non-arcane spells allowed? How about non-arcane classes that access what would normally be arcane spells? What are the rules on prestige classes for this experiment?

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, a dread necro makes a good low level tank. They get a damaging touch attack, and with one feat can heal themselves an unlimited amount.

A beguier can handle traps and scouting well.

A warmage is decent at low level for leveling crowds.

Then maybe a duskblade for a second tank?

Healing would be a problem without PRCs.

[Vinyl Scratch]

Healing would be a problem without PRCs.

Would bard work for that?

[Psyren]

In PF I would do:

Tank - Summoner
Traps/Skills - Bard
Healer - Witch
Primary Caster - Wizard/Sorcerer

[ZamielVanWeber]

The three known listers + bard sou.ds like it could work well. Would replacind DN with Death Master work?

[Jeff the Green]

I assume classes like Rainbow Servant and Sublime Chord are cheating.

Beguiler, dread necromancer, bard (with Requiem), and duskblade.

The beguiler should probably go into mind Bender and Sand Shaper. The DN should go straight, as should the bard. Duskblade I don't mess with much, so I'm not sure. Maybe Sand Shaper too.

A fifth man would be a DN/Dread Witch.


Healing would be a problem without PRCs.

Bard can use wands of CLW until it and the beguiler have high enough UMD to use lesser vigor.

[Doc_Maynot]

Didn't we JUST have a thread on arcane healing?


Play a sorcerer.

Sorcerer has text in its spell aquisition rules for handling getting spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list or spells they are familiar with. A sorcerer familiar with healing magics can learn them.

Also this: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#sorcerersAndBards)

Adding Spells to a Sorcerer’s or Bard’s Repertoire
A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time he attains a new level in his class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: The Bard or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list he now knows. With permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of.

Also there is the Knight of the Weave PrC from Champions of Valor

[rmnimoc]

Are class that use an arcane class but also have non-arcane spells allowed? How about non-arcane classes that access what would normally be arcane spells? What are the rules on prestige classes for this experiment?

Yes, no, anything goes.


Didn't we JUST have a thread on arcane healing?



Also this: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#sorcerersAndBards)

Adding Spells to a Sorcerer’s or Bard’s Repertoire
A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time he attains a new level in his class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: The Bard or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list he now knows. With permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of.

Also there is the Knight of the Weave PrC from Champions of Valor

Yeah, that thread was mine too.

[ryu]

Okay so this is literally a contest of getting to the hilarious power of prestige classes...

I'm thinking maybe the standard tier 3 fixed list casters, plus an arcane swordsage for early game meat. Make everyone necropolitans early on and suddenly we have easy healing, a fairly large list of spell coverage as levels increase, and some pretty nice tools to get through that early game. Once level five hits piles upon piles of prestige classes will open up and the game swings hard in the party's favor.

[Alent]

With Tier 3 and lower as a target:

1) Duskblade
2) Warlock
3) Alchemist (PF)
4) Dread Necromancer

All Warforged for repair spells!

Probably not the most optimal, but I feel like T1/T2 is cheating here, somehow.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Illumian (Krau/anything) Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ UM 10/ whatever 5, if that counts. He can take Able Learner due to being Humanoid (Human). If that doesn't count, then just a Beguiler 5/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler 14 with Versatile Spellcaster (and Heighten Spell if necessary).

Illumian, Improved Sigil: Krau, Versatile Spellcaster, Warmage 1/ Rainbow Servant (adapted to Phoenix Servant for RP reasons) 10/ whatever 9. Domains gained from Phoenix Servant are Good, Fire, and Renewal.

Dread Necromancer 20, Improved Turning at 1st level and start with a human warrior skeleton that has a tower shield.

Desert Half-Orc, Half-Humans and Humanlike Races variant, Arcane Disciple: Scare, Savage Bard 2/ Dread Witch 1/ Savage Bard 6/ Nightmare Spinner 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Dread Witch 4/ Nightmare Spinner 4. Dreadful Wrath, Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command. Inspire Awe ACF, Healing Hymn ACF, Spellbreaker Song ACF, Bardic Knack ACF, trade Suggestion for Haunting Melody. Visit the Otyugh Hole for Menacing Demeanor.

The Dread Necro can heal himself and his skeleton. The Bard learns Cure Light Wounds at 2nd level, which immediately heals for 1d8+7 with Healing Hymn. Beguiler takes care of traps and crowd controls. Later on the Warmage can handle healing, the Bard does heavy crowd control, the Dread Necro handles melee with minions, and the Beguiler and Warmage handle everything else.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Shadowcaster - Star Elf
Duskblade - Lesser Drow
Bard - Human
Spellthief - Strongheart Halfling

[Belmorn09]

I'd say for the tank you could do a stalwart battlesorcerer combo. Be a human, take flaws, and pick lots of draconic feats including draconic toughness which increases your health by 2 for each draconic feat, then prestige into abjurant champion for AC. Or there is always the Duskblade.

Then for the steriotypical arcane caster, pick wizard.

For the trapfinder/rogue, grab a beguiler.

For the healing spells, get a bard. Or a wizard with the feat that allows them to pick a divine domain to cast spells from... such as the healing domain... (needs a high wisdom and casting is limited).

[Psyren]

With Tier 3 and lower as a target:

1) Duskblade
2) Warlock
3) Alchemist (PF)
4) Dread Necromancer

All Warforged for repair spells!

Probably not the most optimal, but I feel like T1/T2 is cheating here, somehow.

I'd do Beguiler instead of Warlock here. Better skills, trapfinding, and more control since there is so much meat here. (The Duskblade, Alchemist and DN can all be tanks.)