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Rockphed
2007-01-31, 12:35 AM
I am starting up a new game playing a rogue, and I want to know if there is any way I can get a bonus feat and be a tiefling. We are starting at level 3, and my biggest problem is that going from human to tiefling, I will lose 2 feats while gaining some nice, but ultimately unneccesary bonuses. I really don't want to go through the process of taking one of them penalty thingies, but would rather give up something like the tiefling's energy resistance.

Any advice that doesn't devolve to, "Play a cleric, it can do it better," or, "Play a wizard, it can totally PWN," will be muchly appreciated.

Dhavaer
2007-01-31, 12:42 AM
Take a flaw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm).

Thomas
2007-01-31, 12:43 AM
Unearthed Arcana, flaws. That's about it.

ExHunterEmerald
2007-01-31, 12:43 AM
Play a gestalt wizard/cleric. They can totally PWN better.

...no, I'm sorry, that was bad. I need to shell out for an atonement spell now.
At any rate, there's skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel--not feats, but some useful abilities that might cover your needs.
Second, there's a feat that grants five skill points. See if you can get your DM to allow the opposite, give up five points, and take a feat.
There's also flaws.

Ted_Stryker
2007-01-31, 12:51 AM
Any advice that doesn't devolve to, "Play a cleric, it can do it better,"...
Oddly enough, as a cleric you can take certain domains that give bonus feats, although they will be domain-specific instead of wild cards.

:smalltongue:

Seatbelt
2007-01-31, 12:55 AM
Second, there's a feat that grants five skill points. See if you can get your DM to allow the opposite, give up five points, and take a feat.
There's also flaws.


Just to stop any potential bickering, we all pretty much assume that if this were a standard, permanent house rule (5 sp is always available to trade for a feat), but I dont see tooo much of a problem if the DM allows it for one character. Especially if it can A) Be explained in character and B) it's not a high-skill character. And is done at character creation

Rockphed
2007-01-31, 01:19 AM
Okay, grumble, but which flaw would be best? I am building a weapon finess rogue who currently has 18 dex, and I saw all the talk about tieflings on the boards and started thinking. I kinda need that extra feat to actually feint in combat, and thus actually be useful. Oddly enough, I think I might end up being the party front liner. Is there a flaw that makes me more vulnerable to energy damage perhaps?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-01-31, 01:23 AM
Is there a flaw that makes me more vulnerable to energy damage perhaps?
None that I've ever seen in any official sources.

If you have access to back issues of Dragon magazine—particularly those shortly after the re-design of its look-and-feel—you can find more flaws than those listed on the page Dhavaer linked to.

There's no particular suggestion popping to mind right now, though.

Dhavaer
2007-01-31, 01:29 AM
Frail or Murky Eyed, possibly?

oriong
2007-01-31, 01:33 AM
I believe the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide to Faerun included a LA 0 version of the teifling which might appeal.

Darrin
2007-01-31, 08:35 AM
Okay, grumble, but which flaw would be best? I am building a weapon finess rogue who currently has 18 dex, and I saw all the talk about tieflings on the boards and started thinking. I kinda need that extra feat to actually feint in combat, and thus actually be useful. Oddly enough, I think I might end up being the party front liner. Is there a flaw that makes me more vulnerable to energy damage perhaps?

If your character is going to be strict-melee and never bother with ranged, then take Murky-eyed. Otherwise, pick whichever save you want to nerf and take the -3 flaw for that (I like Weak Stomach, since most of my builds have high Fort, but I've never actually gotten to play with flaws, so I don't know if that's really a good idea).

You can offset the loss of the human feat by multi-classing into feat-heavy classes like the Fighter, Monk, Ranger... occasionally you'll find a variant base class with a feat at first level. For example, a Dragon totem barbarian trades Fast Movement for Blind-Fight, while a Bear totem barbarian gets Toughness. The variant monk fighting styles from Unearthed Arcana offer a wide variety of combat-related feats, so it's possible to pick up a feat every level for your first six levels.

Since you need Weapon Finesse, take Swashbuckler at 2nd level to get it as a bonus feat (you want Rogue at 1st for all those skillgasm points). For a Rogue/Swashbuckler build, you're going to want to pick up Complete Scoundrel so you can get Daring Outlaw at 6th level, the only feat that allows non-Rogue levels to count towards sneak attack.

If you can, avoid the +1 LA for Tieflings. See if your DM will let you take racial levels instead, so you can start with a +0 LA Tiefling and then either delay your racial levels or just don't buy 'em. The article on racial levels is here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

Here's what I'd suggest for your build:

1) Rogue 1, Feat: TWF, Sneak 1d6
2) Swashbuckler 1, Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse
3) Swashbuckler 2, Feat: Weapon Focus (Shortsword)
4) Rogue 2
5) Rogue 3, Sneak 2d6
6) Swashbuckler 3, Feat: Daring Outlaw, Insightful Strike (Int bonus to damage)

You could also take Fighter at 6th for another bonus feat, and Fighter again at 7th for Imp. TWF, and then Swashbuckler 3 at 8th (avoids multiclass penalty).

Consider building towards Dervish or Tempest so you can maximize your sneak damage with TWF. One of the bigger problems with TWF is you don't get to use it unless you can make a full attack. Dervish Dance is nice but has drawbacks (AoOs, fatigue, limit/day). Snow Tiger Berserker (a feat from Unapproachable East, 3.0 FR sourcebook, requires 1 level of Barbarian) allows you to make a full-attack at the end of a charge if you're using light weapons. Otherwise, pick up Tome of Battle for plenty of maneuvers that allow multiple attacks. The Warblade class in particular dovetails nicely with Swashbuckler (double up your Int bonus on damage).

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-31, 10:30 AM
I would suggest the swashbuckler rogue build with daring outlaw as well. there are several flaws in dragon magazines that would be good for a roguish type I don't have them on hand but there is one that has flaws for all races in particular that is good.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-31, 10:38 AM
You can find more flaws here. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml)

Truwar
2007-01-31, 10:46 AM
Play a fighter/rogue. Your roguish abilities will not be heavily affected by being a lv 1 rogue compared to a lv 2 rogue (except for synergy), you will get an extra feat, more hp, and access to martial weapons (shields as well, if you are going to be the front-line guy).

clericwithnogod
2007-01-31, 10:57 AM
...no, I'm sorry, that was bad. I need to shell out for an atonement spell now.


Oh my god! An atonement!?!?!? I mean, it's not like you murdered a defenseless old man or something... :smalltongue:

Working your way toward Invisible Blade can be nice, depending on whether the official write-up or original author's recommendation for the prerequisites are used.

Rockphed
2007-01-31, 04:59 PM
You can find more flaws here. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml)

This is really helpful. Now I have a different question: If I take the flaw that makes me always fail saves to resist cold, and have energy resistance(cold) 5, do I still take the dammage?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-01-31, 05:06 PM
Yes. Cold resistance has no bearing on your saves and vice versa.

Rigeld2
2007-01-31, 05:08 PM
Yes, you just take 5 less.

Rockphed
2007-02-01, 01:15 AM
Okay, thanks for all the help. Now just to see if I can get any of it to work.