Concerning Fighter debate: Suboptimal legendary NPC fighters?

[Jon_Dahl]

What do Warduke, Jarlaxle Baenre, Lord Robilar and Bruenor Battlehammer all have in common?

Yes, they're all fighters.

People are abandoning the fighter class (not everyone, but some), and there's a lot of talk about ToB.
If that's the case, what's the explanation for such powerful fighters?
1. They're old school. The PCs are modern, since ToB has just entered the campaign world. The skills of Jarlaxle and others are outdated.
2. They're just NPCs. Who cares? We only care about our characters, not the history of the campaign world.
3. The fact that they've managed to become so experienced despite their class means that they are obviously extremely capable. Warblade NPCs play it in the easy mode, so they are not worth to mention.
4. You automatically convert their classes into something better in your campaign if they ever come up.

[Drachasor]

I'd go with (4) or change the Fighter class itself (which is essentially a variation of (4)).

[Brookshw]

I'd vote for Old School and toss on they're core which more people have access to.

[N. Jolly]

What does Warduke, Jarlaxle Baenre, Lord Robilar and Bruenor Battlehammer all have in common?

Yes, they're all fighters.

People are abandoning the fighter class (not everyone, but some), and there's a lot of talk about ToB.
If that's the case, what's the explanation for such powerful fighters?
1. They're old school. The PCs are modern, since ToB has just entered the campaign world. The skills of Jarlaxle and others are outdated.
2. They're just NPCs. Who cares? We only care about our characters, not the history of the campaign world.
3. The fact that they've managed to become so experienced despite their class means that they are obviously extremely capable. Warblade NPCs play it in the easy mode, so they are not worth to mention.
4. You automatically convert their classes into something better in your campaign if they ever come up.

1. Yeah, they are old school. These were I believe before the current edition of the game, so it's hard to even compare them to current gen PCs.
2. They're the PCs of people involved in the campaign world, they're basically museum pieces.
3. Try putting them up against moderately optimized TOB counterparts, and watch as they get shredded without GM fiat or Plot Armor protecting them.
4. Yeah, I'd do this. If I heard that Robilar was around, he'd be a Warblade because he'd be a solid challenge then.

I basically consider the Fighter a "beginner class", the kind of melee you pick up when you want to learn the game and how things work. Once you've got down the basics, you move onto more complicated and full classes and only use the Fighter as a dip class for feats. I don't ban it at my table, but I do let people know that it's the "easy auto" of martial classes to steal a term from Devil May Cry (a mode of the game that does combos for you), while TOB classes are the full experience.

The Fighter is great if you hate resource management (some people do, that's fine, it can get draining), but if you're fine with it (especially with how minimal resource management goes into most TOB classes), I suggest stepping up to a mechanically complex but overall more rewarding class (IMO) that offers a more full and intricate experience.

[Belmorn09]

A fighter isn't incapable of surviving to high levels or even accomplishing pretty epic feats, they just simply aren't the best mechanical choice for optimization. Class features add a depth, mechanically speaking, that feats alone cannot match. ToB basically reintroduced martial classes with a martial equivalent of spells, thus making the classes of ToB more powerful. Non-mechanically the fighter is kinda bland. What could be done is, instead of using the fighter class, use the generic warrior class from Unearthed Arcana. That will give the player more than just bonus feats for options, but some select class features instead and even their choice of skills (though limited). This would make them a bit more unique and ironically less generic.

All in all, eventually all classes get eclipsed by the tier 1's mechanically. In lower levels though, and possibly mid levels, I think the fighter can shine and if built correctly can reach into tier 4.