[PF] Wild Rager PC

[Spore]

Greetings,

so my player wants to play a Wild Rager (starting on lv 2) under my DM flag. My worst case scenario is a lost will save with a TPK (and the rager going to the block) in the first session. I want to present a roleplay intensive start to get to know the characters better (with a few quick fights to wake the lazy bums and strengthen the bond in the group).

So, are there official ways to improve the odds on the Wild Rage? Do you have some homebrew items to help with the situation? Does "Good for what ails you" work here? You can't use the alcohol because your standard action is determined by the confusion spell.

I for one thought about a 1/day magical amulet to reroll a failed will save. Kind of like the Clear Mind rage power. On one hand I fear that he will crush my entire campaign. On the other hand a real frothing berserking insano barbarian is really cool. What are your opinions and experiences on the wild rager archetype? Do they tend to TPK?

[Starbuck_II]

Greetings,

so my player wants to play a Wild Rager (starting on lv 2) under my DM flag. My worst case scenario is a lost will save with a TPK (and the rager going to the block) in the first session. I want to present a roleplay intensive start to get to know the characters better (with a few quick fights to wake the lazy bums and strengthen the bond in the group).

So, are there official ways to improve the odds on the Wild Rage? Do you have some homebrew items to help with the situation? Does "Good for what ails you" work here? You can't use the alcohol because your standard action is determined by the confusion spell.

I for one thought about a 1/day magical amulet to reroll a failed will save. Kind of like the Clear Mind rage power. On one hand I fear that he will crush my entire campaign. On the other hand a real frothing berserking insano barbarian is really cool. What are your opinions and experiences on the wild rager archetype? Do they tend to TPK?

Dump Cha, switch DC to old DC of 10+1/2 level + Cha (the Designers errated DC to 10+1/2 level + Con).

[StreamOfTheSky]

Dump Cha, switch DC to old DC of 10+1/2 level + Cha (the Designers errated DC to 10+1/2 level + Con).

OP, talk the player out of using it, it's a horrible archetype for a Barbarian who's not a dipper, whether you use the original DC or the newer, more awful one (which is bad even for a dipper).

The chance of killing a friend or spending your turns doing nothing is just NOT WORTH a few extra rage rounds per day. And to add insult to injury, the PK Rager also locks you out of 2/3 of your class features (the rage powers) when confused, too.

It is one of the biggest trap archetypes in the entire game.

[NightbringerGGZ]

As much as I like running weird archetypes for fun, I have to agree with StreamOfTheSky. Wild Rager really doesn't provide a PC with any benefits worth talking about. It seems like an archetype meant for NPCs and enemies, not players.

Has your player mentioned why he'd want to run such a build? Maybe we can suggest alternatives that won't lead to TPKs.

As for your original question, personally I would just rewrite the archetype. How about if the Wild Rager sees a party member drop below 0 HP he immediately goes into a special form of rage and must attack the nearest enemies. This rage doesn't end until all enemies are defeated but has a stiff penalty once the rage is over.

[Psyren]

Losing control of your character for any reason is bad, especially when your chances of regaining control on your own are based on a weak save. Wild Rager, Frenzied Berserker and other such creations should not be used by players (who wish to keep their friends.)

[Gabe the Bard]

The frenzied berserker actually gave you some really good incentives, like extra strength bonus and power attack damage, and of course deathless frenzy. Plus, you didn’t start killing your buddies automatically until all your enemies were dead. The wild rager seems like a watered down version of that. I don’t think a wild rager would even be capable of killing the whole party like the frenzied berserker was. The abilities really aren’t that strong. The wild rager would probably just be confused and left in a corner somewhere. I don’t think you need to worry about TPK so much as that one player not being able to do anything during an encounter.

[Averis Vol]

I'm playing a wild rager right now, and honestly, I just worked on getting my saves up before I even bought a magic weapon. it kind of sucked at low levels, but once I had a better source of will save boosters (via gold, rage powers and the party cleric) it wasn't so bad, and I did enough damage without raging (Just with the extra free attack) that I didn't have to risk hurting my allies. Your player could also just spread the love damage wise and not attack low health targets. (it's pretty easy to see when most living things are on their last leg, though exceptional circumstances do happen.

[Psyren]

But that's terrible - not only are you pulling your punches (the opposite of what melee should be doing) and leaving monsters around for another turn to possibly cause more trouble or escape, it also requires some very odd roleplay to justify why you are basically going against every part of the Wild Rager description in the book.

It can kinda work if you fluff it as a Hulk-style curse that your character finds distasteful but otherwise it's jarring.

[Spore]

I expected a reaction like that but at least a bit more mixed than that. That archetype apparently is terrible. But my player seems to be set on the character.

I need an elegant way to protect other PCs. As he will be a wanted criminal, I suppose I could write up a bounty hunter following the party and popping up when the guy is confused. I am afraid that constant Perception checks vs. an optimized sneak would increase the paranoia level to eleven.

[Gabe the Bard]

It's really up to your players to figure out how to deal with a problem that they create for themselves. I don’t think you need to throw in an NPC or DMPC that pops up whenever the wild rager’s class feature kicks in, which is going to be often. Besides, the wild rager isn’t nearly as dangerous to the party as you’re imagining it to be. He only has a 25% chance of attacking the nearest creature, which may or may not be an ally. By comparison, he has a 50% chance of either babbling incoherently or hurting himself. So he’s more of a danger to himself than the rest of the group. The real challenge is how the player will deal with his character being inactive half the time he is confused. If you’re open to tweaking the wild rage class feature, I would recommend an affect similar to Song of Discord instead so that he has a 50% chance of hitting the nearest creature, rather than a 50% chance of not doing anything.

[Psyren]

Well, if he's confused he's forced to attack anyone that attacks him to the exclusion of all other targets. So if you have some kind of animated punching bag - something that can whack him and then survive him whaling on it until he makes his save - that would probably be ideal. Maybe something incorporeal?

Of course, all you're doing at that point is causing him to waste his rounds without hurting anyone, which isn't much improvement in terms of usefulness, but he at least won't be staked out in the sun by his friends.


EDIT: some kind of ghost that follows him around, or a similar beastie that can go ethereal at will, would be perfect as it could poke him and then step back onto the transitive plane (and thus be safe even if his weapons are magic.) He'd need some way to keep seeing it though so that he can attack it; a spectral shroud (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/shroud-spectral) for instance (as a gift.)

[grarrrg]

Your player could also just spread the love damage wise and not attack low health targets. (it's pretty easy to see when most living things are on their last leg, though exceptional circumstances do happen.

But that's terrible - not only are you pulling your punches (the opposite of what melee should be doing) and leaving monsters around for another turn to possibly cause more trouble or escape,

Nonlethal damage.
You can't "drop them to 0" if you aren't really hurting them.
Does this fly in the face of all the flavor? You bet it does.
Is it RAW legal? Heck yes it is.

There are a handful of weapons that do Nonlethal by default, and there are about a half-dozen ways to ignore the "-4 to-hit" penalty for Lethal weapons used for Nonlethal.


it also requires some very odd roleplay to justify why you are basically going against every part of the Wild Rager description in the book.

Still some roleplay difficulties with the Nonlethal approach, but fewer than the "spread the love" approach.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Grarrrg has the best suggestion there. The trait Blade of Mercy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/blade-of-mercy-goddess-of-dawn) would let you deal nonlethal damage with any slashing weapon and gives you a bonus to nonlethal damage too!

I still think your player would be better off finding different rules for the same concept though.

[Starbuck_II]

It's really up to your players to figure out how to deal with a problem that they create for themselves. I don’t think you need to throw in an NPC or DMPC that pops up whenever the wild rager’s class feature kicks in, which is going to be often. Besides, the wild rager isn’t nearly as dangerous to the party as you’re imagining it to be. He only has a 25% chance of attacking the nearest creature, which may or may not be an ally. By comparison, he has a 50% chance of either babbling incoherently or hurting himself. So he’s more of a danger to himself than the rest of the group. The real challenge is how the player will deal with his character being inactive half the time he is confused. If you’re open to tweaking the wild rage class feature, I would recommend an affect similar to Song of Discord instead so that he has a 50% chance of hitting the nearest creature, rather than a 50% chance of not doing anything.

On that note, shouldn't a confused person keep attacking themselves as you are supposed to attack those that attack you (doesn't that include yourself?)?

[Psyren]

On that note, shouldn't a confused person keep attacking themselves as you are supposed to attack those that attack you (doesn't that include yourself?)?

Technically no, because they only damage themselves. They don't actually attack (i.e. roll) to do so; they simply deal damage automatically.

But it does mean that anyone who tries to heal them will be targeted since the healer has to attack.

[Spore]

Nonlethal damage.
You can't "drop them to 0" if you aren't really hurting them.
Does this fly in the face of all the flavor? You bet it does.


Actually it doesn't. My player wants to play his characters with different mindsets and asked me for different alignments for each persona.