Core only Cleric

[questionmark693]

So I'm going to be playing a core only game with some brand new players, and I've decided to be a cleric. I'm not looking for a build or anything, but what are the best feats and spells for me to be looking at, bearing in mind this is core only? I do intend to try and get Divine Metamagic as an exception, and eventually craft contingent spell. Also, please explain why you think things are a good choice-I'm trying to increase my understanding of why certain things are good.

[Subaru Kujo]

So I'm going to be playing a core only game with some brand new players, and I've decided to be a cleric. I'm not looking for a build or anything, but what are the best feats and spells for me to be looking at, bearing in mind this is core only? I do intend to try and get Divine Metamagic as an exception, and eventually craft contingent spell. Also, please explain why you think things are a good choice-I'm trying to increase my understanding of why certain things are good.

Well, best spells depend on the type of cleric you want to do. Melee cleric would play heavily with Divine Power (for more strength and the BAB of a fighter), and so on.

So stamp that down and I could give some more advice.

[questionmark693]

Didn't even think about that, sorry. I'm intending to focus on buffing the party and debuffing the enemy, while potentially doing some crafting during our downtime.

[Arael666]

Does it really have to be a cleric? If your main focus is buffs, debuffs and crafting maybe you should go wizard instead. In a core only environment taking 2 or even 1 crafting feat may be a hard choice for a cleric, a wizard would do a lot better in what you want to accomplish, even if you manage to convince your DM to allow DMM.

[questionmark693]

Not necessarily, no. But the reason I wanted to go cleric was so that there would be healing in what sounds like it will otherwise be a low ish magic setting, and with core only, it's more or less impossible to heal as a wizard. Unless I'm wrong about that completely.

[Subaru Kujo]

Didn't even think about that, sorry. I'm intending to focus on buffing the party and debuffing the enemy, while potentially doing some crafting during our downtime.

Got any domains set up? Other than that, I'll get started

Well, obviously Extend Spell would be a quick pick for you. Once you get to the latter levels, a single casting of most of your buff spells would last you most of the adventuring day.

As far as spells, Hold Person is a pretty good one for the lower levels. Nothing tells a fighter (this would even work decently on other casters) "no" like giving them a pretty difficult Will save to counter or they can do nothing for the next turn. Even if they break it the next turn, they can't do anything other than collect themselves. Also, they count as helpless during the duration that they are held, so use your imagination with this spell.

Bull's Strength is obviously useful on your bruiser (bonus points if he's using a 2 hand weapon).

Swap out the other buff spells for when you need em (I'd assume you'd have the sense to prepare Resist Energy on a day you know a meeting with a Red Dragon is possible). You aren't locked in place like a sorcerer is, so some advance intelligence on what is out there is always welcome.

Oh. Not sure if you already know this, but never prep a healing spell as a Good cleric, seeing as you can spontaneously cast them. Only reason I bring this up is because I did prep them for the longest time until I remembered that rule. Then again, killing things is probably going to be your best bet to reduce damage done to the group. You can patch them up afterwards with a wand or something of that nature.

[Arael666]

IMHO, a cleric would do great at buffing, debuffing and healing. A wizard would do great at buffing, debuffing and crafting (extra feats, better spell list and all that).

You just have to pick what you think is best, or what would benefit the party more, healing or crafting. If there is another divine caster in the party just buy a wand of CLW and pick crafting. If nobody else can heal, then I suggest abandoning crafting, you'll spent precious feats (the DMM route alone will cost you 3 feats since planning domain is non core) and there will be so many great items you won't be able to craft.

[questionmark693]

Nothing set in stone, but Id like him to be a cleric of Boccob, so that limits us to trickery, magic, and knowledge. Unless there is a significantly better set of domains for a neutral or good cleric to be looking at. I'm leaning mostly towards magic and knowledge, for a combination of character backstory, and they look like they're inherently the better two.

We're starting at level one, and as a default, I'm looking at prepping things like bane/bless, and summon monster I. Starting at level three, the Bear's Endurance/Bull's Strength, etc. line is looking extremely appealing also. I missed Hold Person though, thanks for that one.

[Subaru Kujo]

Nothing set in stone, but Id like him to be a cleric of Boccob, so that limits us to trickery, magic, and knowledge. Unless there is a significantly better set of domains for a neutral or good cleric to be looking at. I'm leaning mostly towards magic and knowledge, for a combination of character backstory, and they look like they're inherently the better two.

We're starting at level one, and as a default, I'm looking at prepping things like bane/bless, and summon monster I. Starting at level three, the Bear's Endurance/Bull's Strength, etc. line is looking extremely appealing also. I missed Hold Person though, thanks for that one.
Nothing wrong with those domains, especially if your guy fancies himself a diviner. I'm sort of fond of Trickery myself, but that's only because my favorite cleric fancied himself as a rogue.

And those seem pretty decent spell choices. Summon Monster in particular. Free flanking buddies are always appreciated.

[nedz]

Summon Monster is a bit naff at level 1 because of it's short duration. If you are going to do any serious summoning then the core feats Spell Focus (conjuration) and Augment Summoning are worth considering.

[ericgrau]

Buffs/debuffs: Bless, prayer, shield other, imbue with spell ability (for example imbue shield other), 24 hour greater magic weapon, invisibility purge (at high level), mass bear's endurance. You also have a billion 10 min/level spells and the ability to completely change your entire spell list with a day's notice. So keep a list to the side of your normal list and if you expect a dungeon run prepare several of them and spam them on the party. For example resist energy, magic circle against evil, protection from energy, water walk, air walk, freedom of movement, and spell immunity on an area SR yes spell an ally likes to cast (e.g., fireball or glitterdust).

You also have magic vestment but I'd craft armor instead if possible, due to the slow scaling of the spell. Core GMW is still nice because it has some good weapon enchants besides enhancement bonus, so you can still stack GMW on a strong crafted weapon.

Whether on yourself or another party member, round/level and min/level single target buffs should wait for DMM persist if allowed. Otherwise they are a trap: while they seem to give higher stats on paper the lost round will make it a net negative not a net positive. Prepare at most one in case of a buff round, but don't count on getting one. If persist isn't allowed you might still try DMM extend on hour/levels, and DMM widen spell.

Other than that your buff/debuff options are pretty limited compared to a wizard or druid. Heavy crafting may be your best bet if you want to buff your party. The plant domain also adds some nice druid-like spell options.

[Darrin]

Feats:

Improved Initiative. Clerics do a lot of buffing, and going first means your first buff spell gets out that much quicker.

Extend Spell + Extra Turning. This is the DMM route, which may be well-traveled but for good reason.

Spell Focus: Conjuration + Augment Summoning. At lower levels, you can summon things to soak up hits. At mid-range levels, the summons stick around long enough to help the meatbags dish out DPS. At mid-to-higher levels, you can start cherry-picking useful SLAs to make your life easier. Use the Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255219) to pick out the strongest summons. If you can't get access to DMM, this may be a good fallback role. Downsides: lots of bookkeeping, and bogs down combat.

Spells:

1st:

Bless. Most clerics cast this on the first round of combat. Good buff for everybody, particularly at lower levels where +1 may mean the difference between life/death.

Cause Fear. If the target fails his save, he runs away, which generally removes him from the battle. If the target makes his save, he's still shaken, which is a decent debuff.

Magic Stone. Gives you something useful to do if you're not ready to charge up to the front line with the meatbags. Also quite effective against low-level undead.

Magic Weapon. Mostly you need this to get past DR/magic, but otherwise a good buff to pick when you can't think of anything else.

Shield of Faith/Protection from Evil. Kind of hard to tell these apart at lower levels, as the bonus/duration tend to be the same. Shield of Faith scales a bit as you level up, while Protection from X doesn't so much. Protection works better against outsiders/elementals and mind control, which aren't that common at lower levels but are more potent later. Shield of Faith is probably the better pick, as it works against all creatures, regardless of alignment.

2nd:

Bull's Strength. Good bread-and-butter buff spell for your favorite meatbag.

Hold Person. I'm not so big on this spell, as it only works on humanoids. I'd rather have another spiritual weapon. But still popular at lower levels.

Silence. Shuts down spellcasters, particularly at lower levels where none of them have Silent Spell yet.

Spiritual Weapon. Versatile fire-and-forget spell. Force damage, attacks as a spell, so it bypasses DR and can attack incorporeal opponents. You can also redirect it to a different opponent. This is your top "blasty" spell at lower levels.

3rd:

Dispel Magic. Too darned useful not to take it. You can fill up most of your 3rd level slots with this.

Magic Vestment. Popular buff spell with a good 1 hour/CL duration.

Searing Light. Your first decent blasty ray, but underwhelming compared to what wizards get, unless you're lighting up undead, in which case it's awesomesauce.