The worth of a character/class.

[rmnimoc]

I've recently decided that the tier system, while good at it's job (tiering classes), it doesn't do much with builds.
So, in the interest of showing just how powerful a build is at certain levels, I propose the M.U.L.E.S.*
This system will track the power of builds based on the number of mules they could reliably kill before dying if thrown into an inescapable pit of mules by a R.O.B. (Random Onmipotent Being).

Note: This assumes the build in question gets a surprise round.

*Mule universal ladder evaluation system.

[eggynack]

It seems probable that the number could just be infinity. Any creature with a DR of, say, 15 could just absorb the mule's blows for all of time, and also kill them one by one. You could also do it with something like heavy fortification and a DR of 10. It's an amusing system, certainly, but it doesn't seem like one that grants good information. Even when adapted such that the monsters can't just be blocked eternally, it still feels like like you're pushing towards builds that aren't necessarily the best in the game. Most campaigns don't take place in a pit filled with arbitrary creatures, and there are challenges that don't fit the skill set of someone optimized to kill infinite mules. You'd be better off with something like the same game test, or perhaps something like placing a particular build on the niche ranking system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314701).

[rmnimoc]

It seems probable that the number could just be infinity. Any creature with a DR of, say, 15 could just absorb the mule's blows for all of time, and also kill them one by one. You could also do it with something like heavy fortification and a DR of 10. It's an amusing system, certainly, but it doesn't seem like one that grants good information. Even when adapted such that the monsters can't just be blocked eternally, it still feels like like you're pushing towards builds that aren't necessarily the best in the game. Most campaigns don't take place in a pit filled with arbitrary creatures, and there are challenges that don't fit the skill set of someone optimized to kill infinite mules. You'd be better off with something like the same game test, or perhaps something like placing a particular build on the niche ranking system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314701).

Yeah, but I can't call the "same game test" the "M.U.L.E.S".

Also, melee needs some love, and this is really the only way for it to get some.

[eggynack]

Yeah, but I can't call the "same game test" the "M.U.L.E.S".
How about "Matching Ultra-Likely Encounter Situations"?


Also, melee needs some love, and this is really the only way for it to get some.
That's kinda the problem, I think.

[rmnimoc]

1.How about "Matching Ultra-Likely Encounter Situations"?


2.That's kinda the problem, I think.

1. But it doesn't involve mules, and like melee, mules need more love too.
2. Melee will in most cases do better at lower level (till druids become high enough level to begin their guerilla war by WS into mules).

[Vhaidara]

1. But it doesn't involve mules, and like melee, mules need more love too.
2. Melee will in most cases do better at lower level (till druids become high enough level to begin their guerilla gorilla war by WS into mules).

Fixed that for you

[eggynack]

2. Melee will in most cases do better at lower level (till druids become high enough level to begin their guerilla war by WS into mules).
But that's only really true specifically when you're in a pit surrounded by mules. If you're doing something else, like defeating a single difficult enemy, or dealing with a diplomatic situation, or sneaking about, or, y'know, flying, you're better off as the caster. Hence the same game test. You shouldn't design a test of class quality in a fashion that's biased towards certain classes. It defeats the whole purpose. Also, you could always just involve the occasional mule within the same game test.

[rmnimoc]

But that's only really true specifically when you're in a pit surrounded by mules. If you're doing something else, like defeating a single difficult enemy, or dealing with a diplomatic situation, or sneaking about, or, y'know, flying, you're better off as the caster. Hence the same game test. You shouldn't design a test of class quality in a fashion that's biased towards certain classes. It defeats the whole purpose. Also, you could always just involve the occasional mule within the same game test.

Okay, the caster may be better at those things, but what about when you are trapped in an inescapable pit filled with infinite mules?

Besides, the purpose is to make mules and melee look good. :smalleek:
I mean...uhhh......"provide a fair and accurate means of determining the number of CR1 opponents builds could reasonably be expected to take down". And....uhhh......"rank classes by their abilities to single-handedly damage armies of mules at various levels".
See, when I put it like that it almost kinda sorta sounds like a semi-decent idea. :smallcool:

[Telonius]

Are the mules automatically hostile? A Druid could probably become the ruler of an infinite plane of mules...