Any other adventure paths or modules like kingmaker?

[Jane_Smith]

I have tried kingmaker with my group. All in all, we did not like it that much. We loved making our kingdom, but the grid-map towns/limited building space, the confusing/non-exsistant plot, the railroading, and the piles of paperwork got old, fast.

Ontop of that, none of us really enjoyed the whole 'evil fey in the background' that pops up out of nowhere and becomes part of the main plot for some reason later on. And the king/queen/advisors/etc all going adventuring by themselves made no sense (so none of us did it, so that was a good half of the campaign we avoided out of common sense).

So, we like the idea, but did not like the execution/story of the pathfinder kingmaker adventure path. So I was hoping maybe there were other adventure paths, modules, etc (From any dnd/pathfinder/rule-set), that is generally like kingmaker, but did it right and had a fulfilling plot. Any suggestions?

[Scots Dragon]

I think the Bloodstone series (H1-4) might have a few elements of what you're looking for.

[Rhynn]

The whole Birthright setting.

[Ravens_cry]

You can use the rules for exploration and kingdom building in another campaign, though I'd modify the random quests and events. It's bad enough to do scut work bear-butt collection quests for nobility, but it's quite another when you are the nobility, nay rulers of the land itself.
I also agree the actual plotted story was the worst part. Feeling empowered and in charge? That was awesome. Sure, it was Ye Olde Sim City, but I still enjoyed it a lot.

[BWR]

Definitely Birthright.

Lots of the old BECMI modules are based off the idea of the PCs founding a domain and fighting off threats to their realm (even if the adventures are often just as easy to play as a standard adventuring group working as mercenaries or retainers, and often use mass combat). Test of the Warlords, Sabre River and Earthshaker! are places to start. The latter two are mostly standalone adventures, but TotWL has a sort of red thread about founding a domain and various threats to it from internal and external enemies. Plot hooks rather than adventures, really.
The adventure series Into the Maelstrom, Vengeance of Alphaks and Talons of the Night are a bit really weird and rather setting specific but the basic plot can easily be adapted to work for domain rulers.

[Hunter Noventa]

I haven't seen the Kingmaker setting personally, but there are expanded rules for managing a kingdom in Pathfinder's Ultimate Campaign supplement that may also be useful.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Eugh. I dropped out of a Kingmaker group. Hated it, with every fiber of my being. So I can sympathize.

The problem was that the kingdom building and the adventuring felt like two completely different, poorly-integrated games. As mentioned above, it made no sense for the king and the nobility to go out and do standard module content as adventurers.

The actual kingdom-making was a lot of boring rolls, gridwork, and very little in the way of flavor. I didn't feel very connected to the kingdom's culture or its people. But maybe a lot of that was the deficiency of the DM running the module. What should have been the meat of the module became the boring "in-between" content, and the actual content was the substandard adventuring.

I long for a game where the actual kingdom building is the basis for unique problems to be solved, rather than the occasional diversion from a bog-standard adventure.

[Rhynn]

I long for a game where the actual kingdom building is the basis for unique problems to be solved, rather than the occasional diversion from a bog-standard adventure.

Adventurer Conqueror King (see link in sig). :smallbiggrin:

[Sir Pippin Boyd]

Snip

Skulls and Shackles gives the party a similar level of freedom where they are able to freely sail around and run their own crew, using provided rules to establish their reputation and become famous (or infamous).

[Jane_Smith]

The problem was that the kingdom building and the adventuring felt like two completely different, poorly-integrated games. As mentioned above, it made no sense for the king and the nobility to go out and do standard module content as adventurers.

The actual kingdom-making was a lot of boring rolls, gridwork, and very little in the way of flavor. I didn't feel very connected to the kingdom's culture or its people. But maybe a lot of that was the deficiency of the DM running the module. What should have been the meat of the module became the boring "in-between" content, and the actual content was the substandard adventuring.

I long for a game where the actual kingdom building is the basis for unique problems to be solved, rather than the occasional diversion from a bog-standard adventure.


This ^. All of it. Like, i was expecting politics, or shadow wars, or verbal encounters that were just as important, if not deadly, as a small horde of goblins. Now, don't get me wrong, im fine with combat in a kingmaker, leading battles/skirmishs, crushing rebellions, assassinations, all that glorious stuffs. Not having to send my sorceress/queen to go deal with a group of lizardfolk. >:C I mean, i had 100 level 4 elite human fighter/commanders by that point, what the HELL were they doing?! Sitting on there thumbs that entire time?

PS: Had a feat from the srd that 1/week i can spend 10 minutes to give a rousing speech to give all my allies looking/listening to me (no range limit) my charisma bonus to attack rolls for a number of hours equal to my charisma bonus. Picture that on a 24 charisma sorceress queen with 100 elite, spartan-skill warriors. >_> Sadly, this had little to no effect in mass combat rules, but, hey, was still awesome!

But alas, our dm went by 'by the book', which is a HUGE mistake with the kingmaker path. I mean, god bless him, he went above and beyond. He made it was entertaining as possible. But there was just to many plot holes for him to fill on his own. And the plot was just all over the place and didnt really give a rats ass about the pc's ambitions or goals, you know? EVEN THOUGH THOSE GOALS AND AMBITIONS WERE DIRECTLY LINKED TO THE KINGDOMS AT LARGE! Hell, I was trying to instigate the civil war in brevoy in the background so I could move in to make a power play and bring 'peace' to the region to solidify my claim to the throne once both sides were down for the count.

Would you believe me if I said my character was chaotic good, and not evil? >_>

[Knaight]

I long for a game where the actual kingdom building is the basis for unique problems to be solved, rather than the occasional diversion from a bog-standard adventure.


This ^. All of it. Like, i was expecting politics, or shadow wars, or verbal encounters that were just as important, if not deadly, as a small horde of goblins. Now, don't get me wrong, im fine with combat in a kingmaker, leading battles/skirmishs, crushing rebellions, assassinations, all that glorious stuffs.

You both need to investigate REIGN. It's a full system, but it has a set of rules devoted to handling organizations that can be ported over to other games. Plus, the REIGN Enchiridion - the core material that doesn't include the setting and setting specific mechanics - is about ten dollars used, including shipping. Politics are important. Shadow wars are important. Verbal encounters are important. It does have combat rules in some detail, and combat is still important, but it is far from the only thing that is.

Take Kingmaker's dealing with a small group of lizardfolk - lets say about a hundred, well entrenched somewhere. In REIGN, you'd probably stat them as a Company*. If you wanted to attack them, you'd roll your companies Might+Treasure against their Might+Territory. With 100 elite guards and a decent army, you're looking at Might 2-3, easily. With the sort of cash PCs rake in, Treasure 3-4 is doable. Call it Might+Treasure 6. The lizardfolk are probably running Might+Territory 3, so you can just send out your company to attack them, rather than doing so personally. However, they will take a penalty to subsequent Might or Treasure rolls during the month, as they can't do everything at once. It's a quick squishing, nothing more.

Now, let's take that group of lizardfolk again, and handle things REIGN style rather than setting them as antagonists immediately. Maybe you've got a political rival - you could fund and arm the lizardfolk, sending them up against said rival as a more dangerous force. Then, after they've spent some of their resources handling them (and while their military is at least partly involved in doing so) you have your company send spies in to sow discontent - perhaps over the exact lizardfolk attack you just orchestrated secretly. While the discontent is stewing, you arrange a personal meeting with head officials in the kingdom, where you personally try to convince them that things are worse than they are, making vague warnings of impending rebellion, and offering amnesty in your territory - for a cost, as your kingdoms aren't always on the best terms after all. With them out of the way, you then bankroll the political opposition secretly, make some sort of public alliance with the new government, and then go stomp the lizardfolk, which are obviously no longer funded by you. Throughout this entire process, you also personally work to avoid complications and have things go smoothly. The personal and political levels work as a coherent whole, and everything just functions.

*Generic term for organization, examples range from a tiny street gang to a huge empire.