stone age currency.

[blelliot]

has any one out there in readerland ever tried a stone age (think Neolithic) campaign? If so, what did you use for currency? I'm tinkering with the idea for the next game I will be running, and am brainstorming on a common currency for use instead of a giant barter system. Any help is always appreciated. Thanks!

[Wacky89]

Food would always be a good currency at those times. I think that you would mostly use trade items for items system, but I'm no expert :)

[Wargamer]

There is no currency for this era. Everything is barter - you trade meat for fur, or fur for stone, or your labour for a bed for the night. There would be no actual coinage, and the value of everything is relative.

You'd need bronze age at least before currency could really begin to form.

[Cicciograna]

Why, everybody knows that during the Stone Age shells were used as coinage.

[Brookshw]

This made me think of leaves and Life, the Universe and Everything (also chrono trigger)

Food, hides, bones/claws/fangs, pretty stones, simple tools (sharpened stone/spear/hollowed out gourds), the worlds oldest currency. Barter system.

[BWR]

Leaves. It's an obvious solution. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztP35A3G5PU)

[Firechanter]

Millstones, obviously.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Mühlstein_in_Dachtmissen_(Burgdorf)_IMG_1148.jpg/320px-Mühlstein_in_Dachtmissen_(Burgdorf)_IMG_1148.jpg

[hamlet]

Currency did not exist until somewhere round about 2000BC, or the time that humans began really building cities in earnest and settling into agrarian and urban societies.

Prior to that, it was a matter of trading what you had on hand for what you wanted from the other person. Or, simply put, clubbing them over the head and taking it and being able to keep it.

Perhaps a part of the campaign can be the invention of coinage or the concept of specie (a fancy word for money). Or even discovering a deeply burried cache of ancient coins from a time when the world was much more civilized and have the players trying to figure out what to do with a pile of gold that's essentially worthless since the real items of value are tools and food.

[JusticeZero]

Based on the cultures we have seen, petty transactions are on exchanged favors - you don't need a currency when everyone is on a close first name basis and there are no strangers - and larger or intertribal transactions involve trade trinkets, livestock, and investment /credit /interest negotiations.

[Eldan]

Why, everybody knows that during the Stone Age shells were used as coinage.

Is that supposed to be Sarcasm Blue? Because while I'm not sure about the stone age, Cowries were used for millennia. And would be perfectly acceptable in a stone age setting.

As for living in close communities... there's pretty good evidence of widespread neolithic trade networks of at least hundreds of miles.

[Wargamer]

I'd also encourage you to look into how some early currency worked. We in the modern world are very detached from our money - lots of it has no physical existence and it's not clear where the "value" comes from.

But as an example, a lot of other currencies worked in a very simple way; you take a precious metal and you make a coin that uses a fixed amount of it. That becomes your standard. So, as someone mentioned in another thread, if you can get 50 gold coins out of a bar of gold, then a bar of gold is worth "50 gold". If you decide that silver is half as valuable as gold, then a bar of silver is worth "25 gold", and a silver coin is likely going to be worth "half a gold".

The real challenge comes when coinage collides, and this is where a lot of the complexity in the modern world comes from. Fantasy tends to just ignore this stuff, but it could lead to some potentially fun encounters.

For example, your players are from Kingdom A that uses the normal 1 Gold = 10 Silver = 100 Copper system. They then go to Kingdom B, which uses an "Imperial" model: 1 Gold Sovereign = 20 Silver Guilders = 240 Copper Pennies. Even if 1GC = 1GS, a player paid in Guilders is essentially losing half his money when he converts it back to local form.

[Blightedmarsh]

There are these objects from Scotland called carved stone balls. We don't rightly know what they were used for but some theorize that they were a kind of neolithic currency. The value derived from the effort put into making them.

[Fouredged Sword]

I have a large setting that I play in on occasion where a large civilization uses Jade for their currency. To keep things simple the exchange rate is 1-1 for coins to coins.

1 jade bead = 1 copper coin
1 jade ring = 1 silver coin
1 jade coin = 1 gold coin
1 jade plaque = 1 platinum coin

Most markets would accept ether, but it provided some interesting diversity in coins for treasure, and as much of the setting involves the competing economic interests between the two civilizations, it makes for a visual marker of their strengths.

Jade is soft enough to work with minimal tools, and if common but still uncommon enough to be desired, it could be used as a trade medium. Neolithic cultures are not known for being post-scarcity though. Much of the reason a trade medium was non-existent was that trade itself was uncommon. People needed everything they produced, and had little extra to trade, and little extra time to do the trading in. 1000 calories of work was needed to produce 1000 calories of food. Any energy not spent on getting food meant you went hungry.

[Ravens_cry]

I've been pondering this as well, since I've been working on and off on a Stone Age campaign. My best idea so far is to use the wealth system from d20 modern, and adding some homebrew starting 'careers' that are thematically appropriate.
Basically, your wealth is a matter of your influence, what you can take from others and what favours others can expect from you in return. Asking for too much, checks that reduce your wealth, means people lose respect for you because they begin see you as greedy and/or a poor hunter, taking more than your fair due.
I am also considering adding negative and positive modifiers based on how far you are out of your tribe's range. Being the son of the war chief might gain you, say. a +2 to wealth checks to people who know and respect said war chief, but in an area where they had never heard of them, it wouldn't be any help, and there is other places where it will in fact hinder you if you make it known.
Straight swap and barter is for when each side has something the other wants, usually when you are far outside of your area of influence.

[Fax Celestis]

Why, everybody knows that during the Stone Age shells were used as coinage.

Really? I thought they used feathers, horns, petals, and fangs!

[shylocke]

No money at all. You trade and raid. Every character should havenat east one lvl of ranger barbarian or druid.

[Ksheep]

My initial thought was to jokingly suggest leaves, based on Hitchhikers Guide (mentioned above).

However, as I thought about it, why not adopt the currency of the Dark Sun setting and use ceramic coins? Include some moderately-difficult-to-reproduce glaze to the coinage to keep everyone from baking their own coins and you're set.

[Ravens_cry]

My initial thought was to jokingly suggest leaves, based on Hitchhikers Guide (mentioned above).

However, as I thought about it, why not adopt the currency of the Dark Sun setting and use ceramic coins? Include some moderately-difficult-to-reproduce glaze to the coinage to keep everyone from baking their own coins and you're set.
As I mentioned above, I'd prefer not to have any 'currency' at all. It's still pretty anachronistic unless you are talking some culture that happens to still use no metal but is otherwise quite developed.
See, a fiat currency like that, has to have everyone agree it has value or it's worthless. This implies a global culture of some sort where they are all agree (or are coerced) into agreeing on the value. That really doesn't jibe with the tribal existence.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd also encourage you to look into how some early currency worked. We in the modern world are very detached from our money - lots of it has no physical existence and it's not clear where the "value" comes from.

Its value is abundantly clear, and is the most basic economics -most people who regularly deal with money should know this, even if they don't know the precise terms. The value of money is threefold:

Medium of Exchange: Money allows exchanges to happen even without a coincidence of wants. A farmer can buy clothes, even if the clothes-maker has no need for the farmer's goods. This value is enormous -since our farmer has cash, it saves him from the work and time involved in finding something the clothes-maker wants. Additionally, money tends to be much lighter than equivalent value in clothes or chickens, and much easier to transport.

Unit of Account: Money allows us to easily compare the value of commodities and services. Even a chicken-farmer with no knowledge of the clothes market can tell he needs to sell three 1$ chicken eggs to afford a 3$ shirt.

Store of Value: Money, unlike cows or chickens, generally does not spoil or rot away. A well-managed currency will hold its value better than most commodities.

[Honest Tiefling]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_faience

Probably one of the best known early glazes, but sadly, was developed with the advent of copper smelting, so probably not the right era.

North America before Columbus might be a good metric for a more expansive trade network, large cities, complex societies and frequent inter-tribal contact and the like. Depends on if the desired culture is isolated tribes or not.

[Flickerdart]

There is a fascinating article (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/david-graeber-on-the-invention-of-money-%E2%80%93-notes-on-sex-adventure-monomaniacal-sociopathy-and-the-true-function-of-economics.html) by David Graeber on the development of monetary systems, and what people did before it came about.

[Arbane]

There is a fascinating article (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/david-graeber-on-the-invention-of-money-%E2%80%93-notes-on-sex-adventure-monomaniacal-sociopathy-and-the-true-function-of-economics.html) by David Graeber on the development of monetary systems, and what people did before it came about.

He also write the book Debt: the First 5000 Years, and the first few chapters of it are spent explaining that the model of barter you probably were told in school never actually existed, and that people have been keeping track of proto-economic favors pretty much since before we mastered walking upright. (Edit: I see that's pretty much what this article's about.)


People needed everything they produced, and had little extra to trade, and little extra time to do the trading in. 1000 calories of work was needed to produce 1000 calories of food. Any energy not spent on getting food meant you went hungry.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that hunter-gatherers only spent about 4 hours a day collecting food, giving them a fair bit of spare time for flint-knapping, singing, and goofing off.

[blelliot]

Maybe neolithic era was the wrong era to shoot for. Let me explain: the native americans in north america before columbus discovered the new world would be perfect for the level of technology I'm shooting for. Keep in mind I'm only thinking generally the same. There will be armor, shields, and other non native things here. Has anyone done something similar to this?

[Ravens_cry]

Maybe neolithic era was the wrong era to shoot for. Let me explain: the native americans in north america before columbus discovered the new world would be perfect for the level of technology I'm shooting for. Keep in mind I'm only thinking generally the same. There will be armor, shields, and other non native things here. Has anyone done something similar to this?
Which Native Americans? There is a lot of diversity there, including cultures that were in some ways more technically developed than the Europeans, though still 'Stone Age'.

[blelliot]

Which Native Americans? There is a lot of diversity there, including cultures that were in some ways more technically developed than the Europeans, though still 'Stone Age'.
The plains natives would be what I take inspiration from.

[Fouredged Sword]

You are probably looking for some easy to move, valuable trade good with a fair amount of durability to age and conditions that can act as a medium of exchange. South america and central america used cocoa beams and other things of that nature, such as quills full of gold dust.

North america likely used furs (especially after the french showed up and provided a huge market) and other goods that cultures produced slowly and always wanted more of (you always need more good leather).

[Flickerdart]

There's actually a currency-like system you could implement that takes inspiration from some South American natives: renown. A rich man demonstrates his riches by giving things away to other people, thereby demonstrating his success in whatever enterprise. A poor man appears unsuccessful when he accepts a favour or a possession.

Your PCs could do a similar thing. They accumulate reputation by performing heroic deeds that help the community, and reduce their reputation when they burden the community's shaman, hunters, and crafters to produce magic items for them. When people do things for them, their own reputation improves because they become a part of the legend. "Wow, the great hero Grug-grug slew that weremammoth with your spear! You must be the best spear-maker in the world!"

[Ravens_cry]

There's actually a currency-like system you could implement that takes inspiration from some South American natives: renown. A rich man demonstrates his riches by giving things away to other people, thereby demonstrating his success in whatever enterprise. A poor man appears unsuccessful when he accepts a favour or a possession.

Your PCs could do a similar thing. They accumulate reputation by performing heroic deeds that help the community, and reduce their reputation when they burden the community's shaman, hunters, and crafters to produce magic items for them. When people do things for them, their own reputation improves because they become a part of the legend. "Wow, the great hero Grug-grug slew that weremammoth with your spear! You must be the best spear-maker in the world!"
That's my idea behind using the d20 Modern system.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by blelliot
Let me explain: the native americans in north america before columbus discovered the new world would be perfect for the level of technology I'm shooting for.... There will be armor, shields, and other non native things here. Has anyone done something similar to this?

I'm kicking around ideas for something similar, yes.

Where will the "armor, shields, and other non-native things" be coming from? How do you define "native" here, and how will non-natives affect the story and the setting?


Originally Posted by Eldan
As for living in close communities... there's pretty good evidence of widespread neolithic trade networks of at least hundreds of miles.

Many hundreds, if not thousands. The Indus River Valley culture traded with ancient Mesopotamia, a distance of roughly two thousand miles.


Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword
People needed everything they produced, and had little extra to trade, and little extra time to do the trading in. 1000 calories of work was needed to produce 1000 calories of food. Any energy not spent on getting food meant you went hungry.

Not necessarily; see below.


Originally Posted by Arbane
I seem to recall reading somewhere that hunter-gatherers only spent about 4 hours a day collecting food, giving them a fair bit of spare time for flint-knapping, singing, and goofing off.

Absolutely, and sometimes even less. Some foraging cultures only need two or three hours to gather what they need for the day; the rest of the time is spent resting or socializing. It really depends on the particular culture and their environment.


Originally Posted by Cicciograna
Why, everybody knows that during the Stone Age shells were used as coinage.

In Mesoamerica, even into historical times, shells from the coast were used as gift or trade items for interior/highland communities, in part because of their calcium content.




Originally Posted by blelliot
...the native americans in north america before columbus discovered the new world....

"What you mean, discover us? We discover you on beach here!"

:smallbiggrin:

.

[hemming]

The Mayans used beans, stone beads, crops and barter

The Incans had no currency at all but had big trading markets

[Cikomyr]

Use stones

Big ****ing Stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones)

[Wargamer]

Its value is abundantly clear, and is the most basic economics -most people who regularly deal with money should know this, even if they don't know the precise terms. The value of money is threefold:

Medium of Exchange: Money allows exchanges to happen even without a coincidence of wants. A farmer can buy clothes, even if the clothes-maker has no need for the farmer's goods. This value is enormous -since our farmer has cash, it saves him from the work and time involved in finding something the clothes-maker wants. Additionally, money tends to be much lighter than equivalent value in clothes or chickens, and much easier to transport.

Unit of Account: Money allows us to easily compare the value of commodities and services. Even a chicken-farmer with no knowledge of the clothes market can tell he needs to sell three 1$ chicken eggs to afford a 3$ shirt.

Store of Value: Money, unlike cows or chickens, generally does not spoil or rot away. A well-managed currency will hold its value better than most commodities.

You miss the point. I am well aware that £1 will buy me a can of Energy Drink, or a bag of cookies, or 1/50th a tank of diesel. However, what is not clear is what that £1 coin represents.

A Gold Soverein is 1lb worth of gold. That is the standard - the "gold standard" - on which all other items and services are based. It ensured its value through physicality; when gold / silver standards began to "water down" their coins with lesser metals, their coinage typically devalued, or outright crashed as a result.

Modern money is rarely made of gold. It's rarely even physical anymore, and when it is it's almost all common metal. By historical standards, our money is worthless, so how is its value derived? How do you ensure the value of money that is made of paper, or exists only as a number in a digital account?

That is the point I was making.

[Calen]

See also: Wampum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wampum)

And @ Wargamer. Our money has value because the government tells us it does. In the US paper money used to be a note that could be turned in for 1 oz of gold. But later (after WWII I think) the government removed the gold standard from money. It's only value now is that we are required to take it "for all debts public and private" (Thats what is printed on US money)

[TroubleBrewing]

The Incans had no currency at all but had big trading markets

Surely you're kidding. The primary reason the Inca were wiped out by the Spanish is because of their hoards of silver and gold.

[Ksheep]

See also: Wampum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wampum)

And @ Wargamer. Our money has value because the government tells us it does. In the US paper money used to be a note that could be turned in for 1 oz of gold. But later (after WWII I think) the government removed the gold standard from money. It's only value now is that we are required to take it "for all debts public and private" (Thats what is printed on US money)

The US stopped using currency backed by a commodity and switched to fiat currency in 1964. Prior to this, gold was the main item backing currency, although silver was also used for a time. For instance, there were silver certificates available up until 1964 which appeared very similar to the current dollar bill, although it clearly stated that it was backed by silver, and as such you could cash in a $1 certificate at the bank for $1 worth of silver. It should also be noted that until 1964, larger denominations of US coins included a significant portion of silver in them (they did away with gold coins in 1933, when they stopped production of the Eagle, a $10 gold coin). Specifically, half-dollars and silver dollars made until 1964 contained silver in them.

[Ravens_cry]

Surely you're kidding. The primary reason the Inca were wiped out by the Spanish is because of their hoards of silver and gold.
Yes, but it was not currency.

[Cikomyr]

Yes, but it was not currency.

what about their cursed gold coins?!?!

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs45/f/2009/115/3/b/Cursed_Inca_Gold_by_sonofamortician.jpg

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Calen
See also: Wampum

In addition to wampum, Native Americans also traded with pearls (freshwater and marine), feathers, and occasionally mantles of porcupine quills, as well as copper nuggets for ornaments.

Pearls in particular could be an interesting commodity for widespread trade, since they're fairly durable and reasonably rare.

[Ravens_cry]

what about their cursed gold coins?!?!

I think you've being watching too many 'historical documents'.:smalltongue:

[Cheesegear]

Let me explain: the native americans in north america before columbus discovered the new world would be perfect for the level of technology I'm shooting for.

In Australia, the official currency was Rum during 1793-1810. The Governor who tried to put a stop to spirits-as-currency was promptly removed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion).

[Ravens_cry]

In Australia, the official currency was Rum during 1793-1810. The Governor who tried to put a stop to spirits-as-currency was promptly removed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion).
:smallsmile: Now that's what I call . . .
. . . liquid assets. :cool:

[Palanan]

*smites Ravens_cry*

:smalltongue:

[Fax Celestis]

:smallsmile: Now that's what I call . . .
. . . liquid assets. :cool:

http://mirrors.rit.edu/instantCSI/

[Ravens_cry]

*smites Ravens_cry*

:smalltongue:
You may smite me, but I know you are really smitten with that pun.:smallbiggrin:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by blelliot
Maybe neolithic era was the wrong era to shoot for. Let me explain: the native americans in north america before columbus discovered the new world would be perfect for the level of technology I'm shooting for.

Second call to the OP for a little more information about the world, the campaign, the storyline, and how the characters will be a part of it all.



EDIT:


Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
You may smite me, but I know you are really smitten with that pun.

*smite*
*smite*
*smite*
*smite*
*smite*

:smalltongue:


.

[Admiral Squish]

Well, in all the research I've done for the native cultures in my crossroads setting, there are a few things that would work as currency. In the end, the setting ended up using a value systems where you could trade items of a certain VP value for items of equal or less VP value. You can also bluff to upsell your items, but that's not here or there. Mostly because exchange rates are a major pain.

If you're looking for an actual currency, there are three pretty big ones in precolumbian america.
First, there's wampum, beads carved out of white or purple shells. Purple is worth a lot more than white. One could wear their wealth as a necklace, a belt, an armband, or you could just keep a supply of loose beads.
Then there are stringed shell-disks. These come from clams and they're very carefully made. The ones they find today are so uniform, that you can accurately count out the number of disk my measuring the stack.
In mesoamerica, a major unit of currency was the cocoa bean. They were widely available, easily transportable, and they had value all through the mesoamerican reigon. So much so that many merchants would give prices in cocoa beans, though the regularly accepted other trades.

[JusticeZero]

Surely you're kidding. The primary reason the Inca were wiped out by the Spanish is because of their hoards of silver and gold.
Yes, but they didn't use it as currency. Silver and gold have very little inherent value, beyond the fact that they have some mildly nifty properties insofar as crafting things is concerned.

[Slipperychicken]

Modern money is rarely made of gold. It's rarely even physical anymore, and when it is it's almost all common metal. By historical standards, our money is worthless, so how is its value derived? How do you ensure the value of money that is made of paper, or exists only as a number in a digital account?

Neither paper nor gold have much intrinsic value. Paper bills are valuable for the same reason that gold is: faith. When people believe that a currency (whether it's metal, paper, rocks, cows, artwork, etc) holds value, then it will continue to serve as such. If people don't trust a currency, then they will try to trade in something else instead.

People have faith in paper and digital currencies when they trust the issuer (usually a central bank) not to screw them over with it. People have faith in precious metals because they feel its value isn't subject to greedy humans.

People tend to trust gold more, but digital and paper currencies are in some ways better: They free up resources from having to secure and transfer hoards of easily-stolen metal bars. As long as the issuer can be trusted (yes, I know this isn't always the case), then there's little reason to touch gold at all.

[JusticeZero]

Currency is just a way of shuffling liquid prestige and favor around. There have been a number of contemporary cases where very poor villages and neighborhoods have been greatly enriched by having someone print up a stack of tickets and tell the local merchants to accept them - the local economy suddenly starts functioning effectively because they simply didn't have enough media to pass around between themselves before.

[Fouredged Sword]

Much of modern currency has value because a large, powerful organisation has stated that if you don't give them an amount of it by a set point in the year, they make your life miserable. They then turn around and pay out this currency to compel people to preform tasks for them.

The end result is a very effective system where people are required by practicality to ether do things to aid the organisation or do things to aid those who aid the organisation. Over time, this currency becomes a medium of exchange.

It has intrinsic value, though it is artificial. Money makes the government go away every tax season. This is it's value. There is no other thing that can do this each year, and every year you need another pile of currency to do it again, creating a constant demand for currency that cements it's value.

Without a government collecting money through taxes, it would loose much of it's appeal, and the value of money becomes much more fluid.

[St Fan]

The Unearthed Arcana (and SRD) include an optional rule for campaign using Generic Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) that I always thought would fit well for a stone age campaign. The standard classes have too much of a "medieval" feeling. Those generic classes allows for more versatility, and work well without most "modern" appliances like armors or spellbooks.

As for currency, I agree such a society would be mostly based on barter. The one thing it would make difficult to establish rules for is magical items. Such a campaign would certainly be less monty hall than a regular one, though spellcasters could still manage to create after difficult quests for components and monster parts. Magical items would be rarer and thus precious, as they should always be.

[Flickerdart]

The standard classes have too much of a "medieval" feeling.
Druid: The epitome of a savage living in the woods.
Barbarian: Me big strong man with big strong club.
Fighter: Me slightly smaller man with slightly smaller club who can trip you and stuff.
Ranger: Me slightly smaller man still with two small clubs, but check out my awesome sling and this thing I invented called a dog.
Rogue: Me smallest man with smallest club but it looks like I just bashed your head in while you weren't looking and stole your cave.
Cleric: Praise be to one or more of the various pagan gods and/or ancestors and/or spirits that we worship, and not at all a monotheistic deity whatsoever!
Bard: Banging these rocks together is cool.
Wizard (with Eidetic Spellcaster): Hey, if I burn these herbs it feels like I'm flying.
Sorcerer: Hey, I can do that even without the herbs.

The only one that doesn't fit is the Paladin, because they are so closely tied to a moral code that may or may not have actually ever existed.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart
The only one that doesn't fit is the Paladin, because they are so closely tied to a moral code that may or may not have actually ever existed.

You can still include the paladin, they're just rare and disorganized.

:smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

Druid: The epitome of a savage living in the woods.
Barbarian: Me big strong man with big strong club.
Fighter: Me slightly smaller man with slightly smaller club who can trip you and stuff.
Ranger: Me slightly smaller man still with two small clubs, but check out my awesome sling and this thing I invented called a dog.
Rogue: Me smallest man with smallest club but it looks like I just bashed your head in while you weren't looking and stole your cave.
Cleric: Praise be to one or more of the various pagan gods and/or ancestors and/or spirits that we worship, and not at all a monotheistic deity whatsoever!
Bard: Banging these rocks together is cool.
Wizard (with Eidetic Spellcaster): Hey, if I burn these herbs it feels like I'm flying.
Sorcerer: Hey, I can do that even without the herbs.

The only one that doesn't fit is the Paladin, because they are so closely tied to a moral code that may or may not have actually ever existed.
I notice the Monk is also not on that list.:smallamused:

[Flickerdart]

I notice the Monk is also not on that list.:smallamused:
The what? :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

Why, everybody knows that during the Stone Age shells were used as coinage.

No, it was talons! The shells were used to make armor.

[Cikomyr]

Druid: The epitome of a savage living in the woods.
Barbarian: Me big strong man with big strong club.
Fighter: Me slightly smaller man with slightly smaller club who can trip you and stuff.
Ranger: Me slightly smaller man still with two small clubs, but check out my awesome sling and this thing I invented called a dog.
Rogue: Me smallest man with smallest club but it looks like I just bashed your head in while you weren't looking and stole your cave.
Cleric: Praise be to one or more of the various pagan gods and/or ancestors and/or spirits that we worship, and not at all a monotheistic deity whatsoever!
Bard: Banging these rocks together is cool.
Wizard (with Eidetic Spellcaster): Hey, if I burn these herbs it feels like I'm flying.
Sorcerer: Hey, I can do that even without the herbs.

The only one that doesn't fit is the Paladin, because they are so closely tied to a moral code that may or may not have actually ever existed.

You know cave men most likely had drums and flutes, right? So bards would be fine without the need to bang rocks.

Also, I'd just refuse wizards. Sorcerers is all the Arcane casting you need.

Finally, come oooon. You need Warlocks! :smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

You know cave men most likely had drums and flutes, right? So bards would be fine without the need to bang rocks.
But how else would they play rock music?

[blelliot]

Second call to the OP for a little more information about the world, the campaign, the storyline, and how the characters will be a part of it a


.

The idea is that several dragons (both good and evil)have chosen to take followers and populates a world that until that point was populated only by animals and beasts. The world has several different climates that willl supporrt each of the ten races of this world ( one fro each type of dragon from MMI, yes I'm using the races from dragon magic) the idea was to have each of the good races to have a system of currency between themsleves so trade could be fairly easy, but still keep a lower tech curve because the original dragons (and their followers) came here to the new world to follow simpler lives.

[Honest Tiefling]

Why not scales from the Dragons themselves? Given to shamans and chieftans as signs of favor, they then trade them to their favored subjects in exchange for goods, loyalty, and service.

Lesser items for smaller forms of currency might be made with a dragonscale or dragon motif on them.

[blelliot]

Holy moly, scales is an excellent idea! That would be a plentiful resource as well. There will bemany dragons in this world.

[Honest Tiefling]

Then the horde of a dragon is actually their own body. I'd consider throwing in a plot point that evil dragons tend to encourage their followers to slay other dragons, with the bait being some aid and the body itself.

Dragonscale armor should be worn by an important chieftain. One so rich he can literally wear money.

[blelliot]

Druid: The epitome of a savage living in the woods.
Barbarian: Me big strong man with big strong club.
Fighter: Me slightly smaller man with slightly smaller club who can trip you and stuff.
Ranger: Me slightly smaller man still with two small clubs, but check out my awesome sling and this thing I invented called a dog.
Rogue: Me smallest man with smallest club but it looks like I just bashed your head in while you weren't looking and stole your cave.
Cleric: Praise be to one or more of the various pagan gods and/or ancestors and/or spirits that we worship, and not at all a monotheistic deity whatsoever!
Bard: Banging these rocks together is cool.
Wizard (with Eidetic Spellcaster): Hey, if I burn these herbs it feels like I'm flying.
Sorcerer: Hey, I can do that even without the herbs.

The only one that doesn't fit is the Paladin, because they are so closely tied to a moral code that may or may not have actually ever existed. the class list so far is as follows: barbarian, savage bard, dragon shaman, fighter, ranger, wilderness rogue, scout, and sorcerer (having access to both the sorcerer and cleric lists, along with certain domain lists, just as their dragon ancestors). I don't like the dragonfire adept for this setting. Warlocks will be around to serve as demon worshipping villains. Ill be posting more as I go about this world.

[Hurnn]

pearls, beads, shells, feathers, quills, semi precious stones, un-worked copper silver or gold nuggets, various and sundry trade goods, hides pelts food stuffs.

Someone said no currency till 2000 bc but some civilization had very advanced forms of barter that were measured and tracked. Ingots metal and in other forms were used in trade prior to actual coins.

[Cikomyr]

But how else would they play rock music?

.... I hate you

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling
Then the horde of a dragon is actually their own body.

Hoard.

Unless they're animating their own scales like Myrmidons.

[Ksheep]

Hoard.

Unless they're animating their own scales like Myrmidons.

Do you mean to say that Dragons aren't actually Animated Dragon Scale Swarms?

[Palanan]

I mean to say.

:smalltongue: