What Class Levels do the Disney Princesses Have?

[Ziegander]

I figure this is system-neutral, er, no, by decree of the mods it is specific to D&D 3e/3.5/d20 ONLY, so it works here. Using any d20 game system with class-based character creation, what classes would you assign each Disney Princess (Ariel, Belle, Cinderella, etc) and why?

EDIT: Let's imagine them as "optimized" PCs. What levels would you assign to them in that case?

[Rhynn]

See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322566&p=16704229) and following replies.

[hamishspence]

In the case of 3.0-3.5 D&D, Aristocrat would probably work for many - some with levels in something else as well. For Belle - perhaps Expert would represent her bookaholic tendencies well.

Mulan would be a good candidate for Warrior, or even Fighter.

[InQbait]

I think Jazmin would have a level of Rogue and a level of Druid.
Cinderella at first would have a level or two in Commoner, and later on get levels of aristocrat?

[Hiro Protagonest]

system-neutral,
...

class-based character creation,

...

Wahahahahaha! Good one.

[hamishspence]

Cinderella at first would have a level or two in Commoner, and later on get levels of aristocrat?

I'd have thought the other way round - her parents were upper class - but after her mother's death - her stepmother made her do commoner work long enough for her to take a level in commoner.

[Ziegander]

See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322566&p=16704229) and following replies.

Thank you, I will.


In the case of 3.0-3.5 D&D, Aristocrat would probably work for many - some with levels in something else as well. For Belle - perhaps Expert would represent her bookaholic tendencies well.

Mulan would be a good candidate for Warrior, or even Fighter.

Yes, Aristocrat would, unfortunately, work for most of them. But what if you were playing a Disney Princess as a PC? How would you remain true to their concept while "optimizing" them, so to speak, so that they are a functioning member of a party?


...

...

Wahahahahaha! Good one.

D&D/d20 can't be the only game with class-based character creation. If you don't want to contribute, that's fine.

EDIT: Wow. Moved? Really? Thanks mods, you're the best. :thog:

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'd toss Jasmine as an Noble (DLCS) with the Animal Cohort feat for her Tiger.

Mulan... Somehow finagle a CL onto her so she can take the Obtain Familiar/Improved Familiar for a Pseudodragon familiar (Mushu)?

[Talya]

Most Disney Princesses are normal people, who have no business adventuring. there are exceptions. D&D 3.5 class breakdown below:

Snow White: 1 level aristocrat, with DM fiat Wild Empathy
Cinderella: 1 level commoner, with DM Fiat Wild Empathy.
Aurora (Sleeping Beauty): 1 level aristocrat, again with DM Fiat Wild Empathy.
Ariel: Now we're talking...err. Not. Mermaid Aristocrat with wild empathy.
Belle: At least we lose the wild empathy. 1 level of expert (she reads a lot of books.)
Jasmine: Finally, someone with something other than NPC classes. Jasime undoubtedly has a few levels of aristocrat, but i'd give her a level or two of feat rogue, too. She has no demonstrated combat prowess, but her acrobatics are rather great, as are her social skills (bluff, in particular). With one of her feats, she took Wild Cohort.
Pocahontas: Maybe a level of ranger. At least we don't have to fiat wild empathy.
Mulan: Now we're talking! Warblade, baby. Dragon Cohort feat.
Tiana: Expert. Hey, she's got mad skillz.
Rapunzel: Aristocrat, possibly expert with a bunch of craft (art) skills. She's got an at-will spell like ability that casts so many great spells at once, though. Also: Weapon proficiency - frying pan, and several use rope skill tricks.
Merida: Ranger 2.
Anna: Aristocrat
Elsa: Sorcerer with a less than diverse spell selection and a possible reserve feat or two.

[Red Fel]

I'd also give Tiana a few levels of Wild Shape Ranger. I mean, survive in the bayou like that, you must have developed some survival training; and who else is accustomed to being a small, slimy amphibian? Waiting for the inevitable reply.

[Talya]

I'd also give Tiana a few levels of Wild Shape Ranger. I mean, survive in the bayou like that, you must have developed some survival training; and who else is accustomed to being a small, slimy amphibian? Waiting for the inevitable reply.

I didn't see any training there, just luck and teamwork.

I'm fairly sure I can't make the inevitable reply you're waiting for. At least, not here. Suffice it to say, most anglophone Canadians would be able to answer that question very quickly without thinking twice.

[Berenger]

Pocahontas: B-b-barbarian! :smalleek:

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs45/i/2009/098/3/4/Twisted_Princess__Pocahontas_by_jeftoon01.jpg



(More Twisted Disney Princesses: http://jeftoon01.deviantart.com/gallery/11344500)

[Talya]

Pocahontas: B-b-barbarian! :smalleek:

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs45/i/2009/098/3/4/Twisted_Princess__Pocahontas_by_jeftoon01.jpg



(More Twisted Disney Princesses: http://jeftoon01.deviantart.com/gallery/11344500)

That would have made that movie SO much better.

[Vhaidara]

I kind of actually built a character based on Elsa. I used wizard with a variant on Eidetic Spellcasting, but normally I would say Sorcerer into Frost Mage. You people do realize she's like at least level 17, given that she cast Fimbulwinter, right? She at least has 6th levels, because she cast Ice Castle.

[Ziegander]

Pocahontas: B-b-barbarian! :smalleek:

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs45/i/2009/098/3/4/Twisted_Princess__Pocahontas_by_jeftoon01.jpg



(More Twisted Disney Princesses: http://jeftoon01.deviantart.com/gallery/11344500)

lol, whoa. Whoa. But in the movie anyway, she definitely seemed more mystic and didn't ever fight anybody.

[nightwyrm]

(More Twisted Disney Princesses: http://jeftoon01.deviantart.com/gallery/11344500)

Maid Marian is badass.

[Psyren]

Elsa = Winter Witch or Sorceress with Arboreal Bloodline
Rapunzel = White Blonde Haired Witch

[Telonius]

Merida: Ranger 2.


I'd say Ranger2/Fighter2. She appears to have Shot on the Run, which requires BAB 4 and a few prerequisite feats.

[Talya]

I kind of actually built a character based on Elsa. I used wizard with a variant on Eidetic Spellcasting, but normally I would say Sorcerer into Frost Mage. You people do realize she's like at least level 17, given that she cast Fimbulwinter, right? She at least has 6th levels, because she cast Ice Castle.

I'm playing a winter witch in a pathfinder game that is inspired by, if not based on Elsa.

[Socksy]

I'd say Elsa was a Warlock/Sorcerer Theurge, look at all those blasts of ice, there's clearly an Eldritch Essence Invocation there (if that's what they're called, too dark to read).
My second guess would be replacing one of the above with Wilder simply due to the flavour text, plus easier augmenting. ("Left alone too long as a child due to tragic circumstances?" Yep, that's her.)

Merida's definitely a ranger, yep. Possibly a couple of rogue dips rather than fighter, I'd say. She's a skillmonkey.

Boo grows up to be a Planar Champion and/or Gatecrasher, assuming the theory about her being the witch in Brave is correct.

I'll possibly edit more in later.

Anyone got anything for the villains? I don't watch much Disney, but they're certainly cooler.

[Ionbound]

Well, off the top of my head, Gaston's probably a Ranger with the Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoid).

[ddude987]

Well, off the top of my head, Gaston's probably a Ranger with the Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoid).

No one is a princess like gaston

Is mushu really more of a familiar? He is sentient enough to just be another party member.

[Kuulvheysoon]

No one is a princess like gaston

Is mushu really more of a familiar? He is sentient enough to just be another party member.
Agreed, which is why I'm in complete agreement with Talya-

Most Disney Princesses are normal people, who have no business adventuring. there are exceptions. D&D 3.5 class breakdown below:

Mulan: Now we're talking! Warblade, baby. Dragon Cohort feat.

Dragon Cohort works pretty much perfectly, takes less feats, and can probably be accomplished at a lower level.

[Sith_Happens]

I'd call Elsa a Sorcerer/Elemental Savant, with at least as many total levels as the rest of the roster put together.

[Chronos]

I'd expect most of them to be bards, with all the singing they do.

[nightwyrm]

I'd expect most of them to be bards, with all the singing they do.

You can still take perform(singing) without being a bard.

[ddude987]

I'd expect most of them to be bards, with all the singing they do.

I suppose a lot of them do fascinate animals, or whatever song, if any, works to charm animals.

[Psyren]

Is mushu really more of a familiar? He is sentient enough to just be another party member.

Blackwing takes issue with this statement :smalltongue: being a familiar doesn't mean he's not a party member.

[Renen]

Elsa: Has that frostburn feat automatically applied to all spells (to make em snow themed) She is actually like the strongest Disney caster.

White witch archetype from pf is MADE for rapunzel

Edit: now that I think about it...
Maleficent is likely the strongest Disney villain. But elsa is so OP she would pound her into the ground. Making giant SENTIENT snowmen is so easy for her she does it w/o thinking about it.

[KitTheOdd]

Mulan definitely warblade or swordsage.

I'd go with Factotum for Belle, but her dad is an Artificer no question.

Venelope ...hhhmmmm....maybe Artificer (she built the car) but I'm not sure how best to do the "glitch"

[DrDeth]

You can still take perform(singing) without being a bard.

Yesbut 1st level bard works really well.

[nightwyrm]

Yesbut 1st level bard works really well.

But they can't all be bards, that would be boring.

[Ziegander]

Yeah, I mean, I sing a lot, but I don't think that makes me a Bard. I don't generally Fascinate my enemies or Inspire Courage in my friends with my songs and I don't know that many of the Disney Princesses do either.

[Talya]

Yesbut 1st level bard works really well.

No, it really doesn't. They don't have any ability to do magic with songs, nor spellcasting, nor really any weapon proficiencies. So...bard doesn't fit.

[Red Fel]

No, it really doesn't. They don't have any ability to do magic with songs, nor spellcasting, nor really any weapon proficiencies. So...bard doesn't fit.

I dunno, didn't Cinderella do that I-command-animals-with-song bit?

Snow White to a lesser degree, but I definitely remember Cinderella controlling animals with music.

[Irk]

This was a chunk of an old derailed thread lemme see if I can find it...

FOund it: starts HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312164&page=6)

[Telonius]

EVE: Warforged Warlock. :smallbiggrin:

[Talya]

I dunno, didn't Cinderella do that I-command-animals-with-song bit?

Snow White to a lesser degree, but I definitely remember Cinderella controlling animals with music.

No. Song had nothing to do with it. Animals just liked her. As I stated originally, for half the Disney princesses you have to DM Fiat Wild Empathy onto Commoner/Expert/Aristocrats.

[Alleran]

I'd stat Elsa as eventually a 16th level sorceress with a spell selection looking something like this:

1 - Chill Touch, Endure Elements, Lesser Shivering Touch, Snowdrift, Glaze Lock
2 - Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, Obscuring Snow, Zone of Glacial Cold, Brumal Stiffening
3 - Wind Wall, Shivering Touch, Ray of Exhaustion, Control Temperature
4 - Solid Fog, Wall of Ice, Ice Storm, Mindfrost
5 - Cone of Cold, Flesh to Ice, Ice to Flesh, Ice Shape
6 - Freezing Sphere, Waves of Cold, Heartfreeze
7 - Ice Castle, Control Weather
8 - Fimbulwinter

Granted, she didn't cast all of those, but she did use (or could arguably have used) several of them:

- Endure Elements because the cold never bothered her anyway.
- Glaze Lock as part of what she did to those cuffs/chains.
- Snowdrift as what she was doing at the beginning of Let It Go, idly playing around.
- Brumal Stiffening as another part of what she did to the cuffs/chains.
- Control Temperature allows her to keep Olaf cool during the summer.
- Wall of Ice against the people trying to come after her, to hold them off without just killing them.
- Ice Storm as part of what was happening at the end?
- Mindfrost with what she accidentally did to Anna when they were young.
- Ice to Flesh when Anna was healed at the end (unconscious use?).
- Freezing Sphere works as part of what she did to freeze the bay and escape.
- Heartfreeze has a duration that's a bit short, but a longer form of it would work with what was happening to Anna.
- Ice Castle. Duh.
- Control Weather (limited to ice-based stuff, perhaps).
- Fimbulwinter. Duh.

Putting her at 18th level would give her access to Awaken Construct (i.e. Olaf). Many of these spells may also, as noted for some, have been an unconscious use of magic (or just serve as approximations for what she can do). She has them, but she doesn't quite "know" that she has them.

[Mandark]

Well, off the top of my head, Gaston's probably a Ranger with the Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoid).

It's more likely that Gaston' s favored enemy is anything that bleeds.

[Sith_Happens]

She is actually like the strongest Disney caster.

Heck, I just finished the first season of Fairy Tail and I'm pretty sure the only thing that would keep her from stomping anyone in that flat is the fact that she's not Made of Iron (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadeOfIron).

Speaking of which, how come I've never seen Gray Fullbuster included in the "ship Elsa with every remotely ice-themed character ever" frenzy?

[ben-zayb]

This was a chunk of an old derailed thread lemme see if I can find it...

FOund it: starts HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312164&page=6)

Oh, man. Good times. But in hindsight, I think Mulan is more of a Factotum than a Swordsage. Not only that martial classes don't get Perform (Sing), but it was never really shown that Mulan had great dexterity (hand-eye coordination on apples). All of that amazing Dex- and Str- skill checks (DAT climb check) definitely got there only after she reached level 3. She also seems to be the type that thinks quickly on her feet.

[Socksy]

Mulan definitely warblade or swordsage.

I'd go with Factotum for Belle, but her dad is an Artificer no question.

Venelope ...hhhmmmm....maybe Artificer (she built the car) but I'm not sure how best to do the "glitch"

A flaw binding her to the game, much like a dryad or glaistig can't leave its' whatever. Perhaps a Blink spell gone wrong due to wild magic?

[Talya]

Edit: now that I think about it...
Maleficent is likely the strongest Disney villain. But elsa is so OP she would pound her into the ground. Making giant SENTIENT snowmen is so easy for her she does it w/o thinking about it.

I doubt it. Maleficent has shapechange... which puts her at least 18th level (as she's not a prepared caster) and plant growth... but I don't think druid fits her well. She's some kind of unseelie fey sorceress. Then there is Chernabog, who is likely a Pit Fiend... (Would it be unfair to mention Hades has a divine rank of 17?) Sure, Elsa has powers that cannot be replicated with DND rules, but they can be almost entirely beaten by a couple elemental protection spells and a fireball.

[DrKerosene]

I think Ariel probably has a couple levels of Rogue and/or Ranger (depending on ACF/feats) at least a level of Bard, and with some God-Blooded or other Template on top.

While most animals she talks to appear intelligent, she does have to handle some unintelligent ones. She collects junk/trinkets, avoids a large number of hazards, and sneaks well. I don't know what feature this is, but Ariel frequently gets away with lying to a god/her father. She also diplomacy/bluffs (lies) her home city out of danger several times.

There is an episode in her pre-movie-animated series where Ariel's magic voice changes the views of a city of mermaids and creatures.

I figure she has Spell-Resistance from a template due to Ursala having to get permission to cast a spell that affects Ariel (intentionally lowering the SR). I think if Ursala could cast spells on Ariel to start with a different plot should have happened in the movie, but the SR seems like a leap too.

[Talya]

King Triton is not a god in TLM, just the king of the mermaids.

For the last time, not one of them should get the bard class unless they are seen to both (1) cast spells, and (2) intentionally invoke bardic music effects with their song.

Ariel is nothing more than an aristocrat with Wild Empathy. (though she's not very good at wild empathy or that shark wouldn't have been a problem.) She doesn't demonstrate any particular skills or strengths other than singing, and her voice is not magical in itself.

[DrKerosene]

King Triton is not a god in TLM, just the king of the mermaids.
I'm sorry, my mistake, it goes Triton (father), Poseidon (grandfather), Neptune (great grandfather; deceased). I can believe the previous kings of the sea simply shared names with gods and there's no divinity in the bloodline.

Ariel is nothing more than an aristocrat with Wild Empathy. (though she's not very good at wild empathy or that shark wouldn't have been a problem.) She doesn't demonstrate any particular skills or strengths other than singing, and her voice is not magical in itself.
I believe TLM's setting requires the talking sea creatures to be considered Awakened for this discussion, otherwise Ariel has some freaky level of Wild Empathy/Druidic-Sylvan-Language stuff going on.

Looking at the 3.5 Diplomacy chart for changing an aggressive person to anything friendlier, I'm not surprised Ariel failed to handle the hungry/feral-shark, especially at lowest assumable level. So yeah, she might not be good at Handle Animal, but that particular shark seemed to be an exception when compared to other sharks in TLM universe.

I can admit DnD logic wouldn't be better RAW for survivability of "mundanes" compared to stuff in TLM, but Ariel may possess super-human strength and endurance (swims from the depth of Ursala's lair to the surface in human form/escapes a whirlpool), elemental-resistance (not cold in the arctic/bothered when near volcanos), and plenty of general skill-monkeying/party-face stuff, but skill ranks is something an Aristocrat should have.

For the last time, not one of them should get the bard class unless they are seen to both (1) cast spells, and (2) intentionally invoke bardic music effects with their song.
I'm ignoring the word "intentionally" as I'm unaware of anyway to describe some of Ariel's "powers" without using the Bardic Music class feature, see the quote below and feel free to educate me on how an Aristocrat could achieve those effects more easily than a Bard.

I don't mind saying I have no recollection of Ariel demonstrating magic spell usage, but the Kingdom Hearts games shows she can use some healing/evocation magic. Also at some point Ariel becomes a sea witch before eventually (literally) wishing things back to how they were before, but at some point casts a spell on Sebastion too that makes him huge.

As for "magic voice". Ursala uses Ariel's voice to mind control Prince Eric in the main movie. Actually, I found a list of other things regarding her voice, so here's a quote from http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Ariel


Magical Voice: ...In the episode "The Evil Manta" of the TV series, her singing voice seemed to be only weapon that could banish the Manta from Atlantica. Her voice conjured an underwater storm that cast the Manta out of the empire.

In another episode she was cursed that if she laughed her laughter would cause Sea-Quakes; however, this curse was removed by the end of the episode.

Her voice was also able to awaken an unconscious Prince Eric*.

Although Ariel herself never used her voice in this manner, her voice can also be used in a far darker way, such as mind control, as evidenced by Ursula, while adopting the identity of Vanessa, using Ariel's voice to brainwash Eric to be her puppet as a means to get him to marry her, and thus ensure Ariel cannot win her end of the bargain.

This ability can be further proven for the only way Vanessa's (Ursula's) control over Eric could be broken was if the nautilus containing Ariel's voice was released. If this was Urusla's own magic Ariel's voice wouldn't have been needed to cast the hypnotizing spell.
(It should also be noted that the hypnotic quality of Ariel's voice is extremely similar to that of the Sirens from the Greek myths...)
*I believe earlier it says the previously calm ocean cinematically responds to Ariel singing to awaken Prince Eric. Why? I dunno.

tl:dr If Kingdom Hearts doesn't count in any way for saying that Ariel is (eventually) capable of casting spells (or the sea-witch bit about wishing to not have magic), and all the focus on Ariel's voice over all the related media (and unexplained side-effects related to it) don't make her the best option for a Bard, then I'm done.

[DrDeth]

King Triton is not a god in TLM, just the king of the mermaids.

For the last time, not one of them should get the bard class unless they are seen to both (1) cast spells, and (2) intentionally invoke bardic music effects with their song.

Ariel is nothing more than an aristocrat with Wild Empathy. (though she's not very good at wild empathy or that shark wouldn't have been a problem.) She doesn't demonstrate any particular skills or strengths other than singing, and her voice is not magical in itself.

You do know that a 3.5 1st level bard only has cantrips, which does describe some of the household type things they do. Ariel's voice is certainly bardic. Pocahontas is described as " in the film she appears to have shamanic powers since she was able to commune with nature, talk to spirits, empathize with animals and understand unknown languages."

[Talya]

I'm ignoring the word "intentionally" as I'm unaware of anyway to describe some of Ariel's "powers" without using the Bardic Music class feature, see the quote below and feel free to educate me on how an Aristocrat could achieve those effects more easily than a Bard.

Nothing is canon but the theatrical motion picture release. Anything else is garbage that shall be ignored. Ariel's voice does nothing magical by itself in the movie.

[Loreweaver15]

Nothing is canon but the theatrical motion picture release. Anything else is garbage that shall be ignored. Ariel's voice does nothing magical by itself in the movie.

Wow, somebody never watched the Little Mermaid or Aladdin animated series as a kid :P Those were straight-up excellent for large portions of their run.

[The Cat Goddess]

Elsa: Has that frostburn feat automatically applied to all spells (to make em snow themed) She is actually like the strongest Disney caster.

White witch archetype from pf is MADE for rapunzel

Edit: now that I think about it...
Maleficent is likely the strongest Disney villain. But elsa is so OP she would pound her into the ground. Making giant SENTIENT snowmen is so easy for her she does it w/o thinking about it.

Maleficent turns into a dragon, melts all the snow with horrid green fire, wins.


Yeah, I mean, I sing a lot, but I don't think that makes me a Bard. I don't generally Fascinate my enemies or Inspire Courage in my friends with my songs and I don't know that many of the Disney Princesses do either.

Are you sure you're not an Evil Bard who is using Inspire Fear with your singing? :smallbiggrin:

[Manly Man]

Nothing is canon but the theatrical motion picture release. Anything else is garbage that shall be ignored. Ariel's voice does nothing magical by itself in the movie.

I'm not trying to be insulting, and it may just be me, but something about how you said this comes off to me as insufferably elitist. I really hope that's not the case, and it's just that my day's been kinda blech.

As for the others, I'd say Mulan's definitely got levels as a Warblade. Probably up to level 3 or even 4 by the end of the movie. Shan Yu is likely a Barbarian 1/Ranger 1/Warblade 2.

[Talya]

I'm not trying to be insulting, and it may just be me, but something about how you said this comes off to me as insufferably elitist. I really hope that's not the case, and it's just that my day's been kinda blech.

As for the others, I'd say Mulan's definitely got levels as a Warblade. Probably up to level 3 or even 4 by the end of the movie. Shan Yu is likely a Barbarian 1/Ranger 1/Warblade 2.
I'm a huge Disney fan... but their secondary animation studios that they use to cash-in on popular movies have nothing but my contempt.

[Loreweaver15]

I'm a huge Disney fan... but their secondary animation studios that they use to cash-in on popular movies have nothing but my contempt.

Wait, you really didn't like the Aladdin or The Little Mermaid cartoons?

[Talya]

I only saw a few, and no. They cheapen the originals.

Let's put it this way with the Aladdin cartoons - they weren't as good as Aladdin and the King of Thieves - and Aladdin and the King of Thieves wars a horrible direct-to-dvd-cash-in sequel.

They may have been ok as cartoons, compared to other shows on TV at the time. They weren't up to the standards of the originals, however -- they couldn't be! The budget is not nearly as high per minute of animation -- and therefore should not have been made. Never cheapen the original material!

[Jeff the Green]

Pocahontas: B-b-barbarian! :smalleek:

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs45/i/2009/098/3/4/Twisted_Princess__Pocahontas_by_jeftoon01.jpg



(More Twisted Disney Princesses: http://jeftoon01.deviantart.com/gallery/11344500)

Damn. I want to see those movies.

I also want to make a bard based off of Jasmine there. Dance to fascinate and then Rajah bites their heads off.

[ericgrau]

Commoner 1 or aristocrat 1, depending on whether or not they start as princesses and the culture. :smalltongue:

Most do seem to have speak with animals, but then so do most people in general in the Disney Worlds.

[Afgncaap5]

I was kinda sad to see that this was ruled to be D&D Only. I couldn't help myself from starting to work on a Hollow Earth Expedition character based on Jasmine with the Aristocrat archetype, Freedom motivation and Stubborn flaw. (Though you could probably argue a "Princess" archetype pretty easily.)

I agree that most of them shouldn't be Bards. However, I'd make an exception for Ariel. If I wanted an Ariel-themed character, I could easily see myself going Bard (I mean, her voice is implied to be a tier above most other singers, and Ursula is able to use Ariel's stolen voice to entrance Prince Eric, after all.)) She may have never personally gained any magical benefits from singing, but... if I wanted to make a character inspired by Ariel, bard is how I'd go.

[Shinken]

I think Esmeralda could be a Bard with Perform (dance). Is there any ACF that trades away a Bard's spellcasting?

[DrKerosene]

Nothing is canon but the theatrical motion picture release. Anything else is garbage that shall be ignored. Ariel's voice does nothing magical by itself in the movie.


Her voice was also able to awaken an unconscious Prince Eric*.
-(stuff about mind control potential)-
This ability can be further proven for the only way Vanessa's (Ursula's) control over Eric could be broken was if the nautilus containing Ariel's voice was released. If this was Urusla's own magic Ariel's voice wouldn't have been needed to cast the hypnotizing spell.

Could you please clarify how Ariel's Voice+Ursala's magic has a simpler/NPC-class answer than "Bardic Music:fascinate"? I'm really interested in the non-bard option for use in games.

[Chronos]

I'm not sure they have to have Wild Empathy. By the rules, Wild Empathy is basically just "Diplomacy, except it works on animals". But Disney worlds seem to be chock-full of awakened animals, on which the ordinary Diplomacy skill would work fine. It's also a class skill for both Aristocrat and Bard.

[DrKerosene]

But Disney worlds seem to be chock-full of awakened animals
That's one of those things that, when explained, changes details about the characters. Is Abu Aladdin's "Improved Familiar" or does Abu have a class level/feat to use Sleight of Hand and such?

Also here's a feat called Soothe the Beast (http://dndtools.eu/feats/eberron-campaign-setting--12/soothe-the-beast--2677/) from the ECS that can be used on "Magical Beasts" too with the usual -4 penalty. Here's a UA ACF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bard) for the Bard that gives an animal focus instead of music, but keeps the Bardic Music base feature. Most of the feats related to performing, like "Green Ear" (music effects plants) and "Chant of Fortitude" (keeps allies conscious at <0HP), only work with "Bardic Music". They, like "Sunken Sing" (bardic music underwater), could probably be used for non-Bardic Perform:Sing for no effect, but you'd probably be able to use that feat elsewhere to better flesh out the character.

I generally agree with you though. When I first saw this thread I just thought "UA Generic Classes" and then I'd include "Bardic Music" as a feature like the "Rage", "Wild Empathy", or "+2d6 Sneak Attack" options/special-feats that "Experts" could take. This is actually something I've been considering for a "Once Upon A Time/Enchanted" setting, since my players love anything that expands their favourite universes.


Maleficent turns into a dragon, melts all the snow with horrid green fire, wins.Man, I would hate to be a snowman who's finally enjoying summer on the beach with my creator/parent when a dragon spews fire at me.

[Talya]

Could you please clarify how Ariel's Voice+Ursala's magic has a simpler/NPC-class answer than "Bardic Music:fascinate"? I'm really interested in the non-bard option for use in games.

Ariel's voice is never demonstrated to have any obvious magical effect in the movie, and certainly no effect that is replicable by a bard. The only points her voice ever seems to do anything magic is in conjunction with Ursula's spell.

Ariel is just an aristocrat. She has no special skills (give her 5 points in perform (sing) and you've isolated her entire set of talents, really), no combat ability, no spellcasting, and no bardic performance. And as was pointed out by Dr.Kerosene, it makes more sense if you treat sea creatures as "awakened" (or anthropomorphic) than even giving her wild empathy. (this is especially true as the sea creatures in Little Mermaid seem capable of speaking to all merfolk.) Then you've eliminated the only seemingly magical thing about her at all.

[Urpriest]

Ariel's voice is never demonstrated to have any obvious magical effect in the movie, and certainly no effect that is replicable by a bard. The only points her voice ever seems to do anything magic is in conjunction with Ursula's spell.

Ariel is just an aristocrat. She has no special skills (give her 5 points in perform (sing) and you've isolated her entire set of talents, really), no combat ability, no spellcasting, and no bardic performance. And as was pointed out by Dr.Kerosene, it makes more sense if you treat sea creatures as "awakened" (or anthropomorphic) than even giving her wild empathy. (this is especially true as the sea creatures in Little Mermaid seem capable of speaking to all merfolk.) Then you've eliminated the only seemingly magical thing about her at all.

Can the sea creatures speak to humans, though? I don't remember if Sebastian can speak to the prince.

If not, then some sort of racial Speak with Animals makes more sense, like the one the Gnomes have.

[Particle_Man]

If the Shrek series counts as canon then Snow White as bard is back on the table. :smallcool:

Nala would be either a really tough lion or perhaps an awakened lion with Tiger Blood maneuvers and Warblade levels.

[Shinken]

Nala would be either a really tough lion or perhaps an awakened lion with Tiger Blood maneuvers and Warblade levels.
I don't remember her doing anything remarkable, physically. She overpowered Simba, but Simba had been leaving an easy life. She defeated some hyenas, but they are the movie's mooks. Everyone is pretty average in Lion King, aside from the monkey shaman. And maybe Pumba. Mufasa was probably badass when he was alive, but there is not much evidence.