Hummingbird flight speed?

[zeek0]

Hello,

What is the flight speed of a [unladen] hummingbird?

A real-life hummingbird has an average flight speed of 25-30 mph. Put into d&d terms, this is 220-264 feet per 6 seconds.

How does this translate into a practical d&d flight speed?

Thanks all!

[Flickerdart]

Hummingbirds use the stats of the Thrush, which is in the back of the DMG (look for familiars for Tiny or smaller masters). I think its flight speed is listed as 40ft.

[Invader]

Depends, is it a European hummingbird or an African hummingbird?

[lsfreak]

Depends, is it a European hummingbird or an African hummingbird?

Hummingbirds are only found in the Americas. Similar roles are filled by sunbirds in Africa and tropical Asia, honeyeaters in Australia, and honeycreepers in Hawai'i. Nectarivorous birds are essentially absent from Europe.

[Invader]

mingbirds are only found in the Americas. Similar roles are filled by sunbirds in Africa and tropical Asia, honeyeaters in Australia, and honeycreepers in Hawai'i. Nectarivorous birds are essentially absent from Europe.

I cant remember what gray text is for but I'll assume you're kidding.

[mythmonster2]

I believe grey text is nitpicking or expanding on facts in a way that is not necessarily needed.

[Invader]

Perhaps my reference wasn't recognized?

[nyjastul69]

Depends, is it a European hummingbird or an African hummingbird?

Whether it is laden or not is of greater concern.


Hummingbirds are only found in the Americas. Similar roles are filled by sunbirds in Africa and tropical Asia, honeyeaters in Australia, and honeycreepers in Hawai'i. Nectarivorous birds are essentially absent from Europe.

I don't know what gray text means, but Invader was making a Monty Python reference. Just replace hummingbird with swallow.

[lsfreak]

I believe grey text is nitpicking or expanding on facts in a way that is not necessarily needed.

Yea, that. Were this twitter it'd be tagged #completelymissingthepoint instead of grey-text.

[Namfuak]

I don't know what gray text means, but Invader was making a Monty Python reference. Just replace hummingbird with swallow.

I'm guessing lsfreak already knew the reference, but was trying to be humorous by pointing out that the logic does not work if you change the type of bird.

[Rubik]

Just replace hummingbird with swallow.Um... Needed yet unnecessary white text

[nyjastul69]

I'm guessing lsfreak already knew the reference, but was trying to be humorous by pointing out that the logic does not work if you change the type of bird.

I guess. His post makes no indication in any way that he wasn't being 100% serious. Emoticons are our friends.

[nyjastul69]

Um... Needed yet unnecessary white text
Yup. :smallbiggrin:

ETA: I could have said that a hummingbird should be followed by a swallow.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart
Hummingbirds use the stats of the Thrush, which is in the back of the DMG (look for familiars for Tiny or smaller masters).

Yup, that's the game rule, and to me this is one of the most glaring examples of how very little clue the folks at Wizards have about the world outside their cubicles.

Thrushes are an order of magnitude larger than hummingbirds. In fact, they're very much not like hummingbirds in all sorts of ways. It's like using the stats for a pony to represent a bobcat.



/biorant

[veti]

Yup, that's the game rule, and to me this is one of the most glaring examples of how very little clue the folks at Wizards have about the world outside their cubicles.

Thrushes are an order of magnitude larger than hummingbirds. In fact, they're very much not like hummingbirds in all sorts of ways. It's like using the stats for a pony to represent a bobcat.

This goes back to the early days of the game, when the books were riddled with disclaimers of the general form "We could have written about 473 different entries here, but seriously, who has time for that? So here's one as a sample, feel free to alter or expand on it if you like." For instance, the 'Fighter' class (it explained) could be used for a knight, or a samurai, or a guard, bodyguard, soldier, nightclub bouncer, yada yada.

In 1e, that was Gygax being either lazy or efficient, depending how you look at it. (I call it 'efficient'.) But it didn't take long for the publishers to realise that this was a missed opportunity: they could produce supplements and splatbooks filling in all those gaps, and get paid for them, because your average DM is considerably lazier than Gygax.

And so they stopped actively encouraging DMs to write their own rules, and have been working on their grand project to expand on the rules to cover every damn thing they can imagine. They've got a long way to go. Somehow, hummingbirds haven't risen to the top of the priority pile yet, but I don't doubt that someday the 'Avians & Amphibians' splatbook will have you covered.

Until then: if you don't like the rules, rewrite them. It's your game, dammit.

[Malcador]

Thrushes are an order of magnitude larger than hummingbirds. In fact, they're very much not like hummingbirds in all sorts of ways. It's like using the stats for a pony to represent a bobcat.

Instead of pony package contained bobcat. Would not buy again.

On topic, we need to know how much effort a hummingbird puts into flying at 25-30 mph, so we can tell whether it is "walking" or "hustling", according to the SRD's movement rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm). If the hummingbird can fly at that speed for several hours at a time, the effort is about equivalent to "walking", and its fly speed should be approximately 240 feet. If it can only do so for short periods (not more than an hour each day), then that speed represents "hustling" (taking a double move each round), and the hummingbird should have a flight speed closer to 120 feet.

[Flickerdart]

It seems more like a top speed measurement than anything, which would make it a Run action (quadruple move) and give the little guys a flight speed of around 60 feet.

[Qwertystop]

Pretty sure light gray is for dry humor.

[Jack_Simth]

Hello,

What is the flight speed of a [unladen] hummingbird?

A real-life hummingbird has an average flight speed of 25-30 mph. Put into d&d terms, this is 220-264 feet per 6 seconds.

How does this translate into a practical d&d flight speed?

Thanks all!
If we make the assumption that the 220-264 is a full-out run, with the run feat, then the D&D flight speed would be one fifth that. 44-53 feet per round. Call it a move of 40 or 50.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by veti
Until then: if you don't like the rules, rewrite them.

Funny you mention that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289285)


Originally Posted by Malcador
Instead of pony package contained bobcat. Would not buy again.

Thank you. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Malcador
If the hummingbird can fly at that speed for several hours at a time, the effort is about equivalent to "walking", and its fly speed should be approximately 240 feet.

Check into hummingbird migration speeds and their flight duration. A number of species cross the Gulf of Mexico nonstop. I don't know how long it takes offhand, but probably a day or two, no food and no rest.

.

[Spore]

I am pretty sure a real hummingbird can't afford to fly at its top speed for several hours. I recall them being frail creatures having to eat nectar for several hours per day or they'll starve because their wing motion needs so much energy.

[nyjastul69]

Pretty sure light gray is for dry humor.

Pretty sure that is uncommon knowledge.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Sporeegg
I am pretty sure a real hummingbird can't afford to fly at its top speed for several hours. I recall them being frail creatures having to eat nectar for several hours per day or they'll starve because their wing motion needs so much energy.

Not just their wingbeats, but their entire metabolism burns so fast they need almost constant feeding. Hummingbirds can't make it through the night without feeding, not at that metabolic intensity, so they put themselves into torpor and essentially survive the night by hibernating.

As for sustained flight speeds, again, look into their migratory flights. There's a reason they lose 25% of their body mass by the end of the journey.

[Gnome Alone]

"Well, sure, your hummingbird familiar could fly 240 feet per second, but he's slowed way down because he's a freaking hummingbird and spends all his time flitting around looking for flowers."

Is there a text color for I came up with a plausible explanation for something dumb in the rules?

[Spore]

There's a reason they lose 25% of their body mass by the end of the journey.

You essentially telling me to hike to Italy from Germany to get in shape? I don't know if I am up to that :smalleek:

[Rubik]

You essentially telling me to hike to Italy from Germany to get in shape? I don't know if I am up to that :smalleek:Are you a hummingbird? :smallconfused:

[Slipperychicken]

I am pretty sure a real hummingbird can't afford to fly at its top speed for several hours. I recall them being frail creatures having to eat nectar for several hours per day or they'll starve because their wing motion needs so much energy.

Yeah, the long-distance movement speeds work strangely when applied to animals. The calculations seem to be built around humans, whose bipedalism allows for considerably better long-term endurance than other animals, not to mention that we can eat food from our hands/containers while we move, meaning we get extra water and energy supplies on top of that. I've heard that early humans' hunting strategies (before we had agriculture or horses, and when we were still reasonably fit) prominently featured chasing animals until they tired out and were unable to defend themselves.

[Jack_Simth]

Yeah, the long-distance movement speeds work strangely when applied to animals. The calculations seem to be built around humans, whose bipedalism allows for considerably better long-term endurance than other animals, not to mention that we can eat food from our hands/containers while we move, meaning we get extra water and energy supplies on top of that. I've heard that early humans' hunting strategies (before we had agriculture or horses, and when we were still reasonably fit) prominently featured chasing animals until they tired out and were unable to defend themselves.
Note that this is exactly how my dad used to capture the family horse when it got away. He'd walk after it. When he got close, it would bolt. He'd walk after it. When he got close, it would bolt. He'd walk after it. When he got close, it would bolt. It as a highly repetitive cycle, and he may have ended up going a couple of miles in random directions, but sooner or later, all that bolting would wear the family horse out, at which point, it would stop bolting, let him put the bit and bridle on it, and then he would walk it home.

My dad was not actually in the best of shape. He didn't run it down, he walked it down. The trick was that the horse was panicked, and did a whole bunch of the run/spot thing, while all he did was walk and follow the horse's trail. Can you walk ten miles in a day? Then you can walk down a horse if you know how.