Improving scythes

[Elfkin_King]

Q1:What are some options to improve a Scythe wielder? (such as feats, items, and/or prestige classes?)

The most I can think of to do is take Monkey Grip to use a Large Scythe.

[Ravens_cry]

I've always wanted to try mounted scythe user. Yes, lances are strictly better, but the flavour sounds awesome.

[NotScaryBats]

Let's say you're a Ghoul or Gravetouched Ghoul, with a claw/claw/bite routine that paralyzes. You pounce on some hapless foe, and maybe one of your attacks paralyzes it. You Quick Draw the scythe from your back, and use a Full Round action to deliver a Coup De Grace to the helpless foe.

You automatically hit, automatically crit, and do x4 damage because scythes. If the enemy survives, it must make a Fortitude save DC 10+dmg dealt, or die anyway.

Stuff like that to guarantee and capitalize on crits is a cool way to use a scythe. You'd get to be like an undead executioner.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It is a two handed weapon, just take normal feats like power attack, leap attack, etc. and go to town.

On the other hand monkey grip is an AWFUL feat, a -2 for an average +2 damage is absolutely terrible. Using power attack you get +4 damage taking the same penalty.

[Elfkin_King]

I've always wanted to try mounted scythe user. Yes, lances are strictly better, but the flavour sounds awesome.

That's actually pretty much what I have in mind. My friend is letting me play a dragon rider and I decided to try the scythe instead of the TWF I normally do. But I hate using d4's, lol


Let's say you're a Ghoul or Gravetouched Ghoul, with a claw/claw/bite routine that paralyzes. You pounce on some hapless foe, and maybe one of your attacks paralyzes it. You Quick Draw the scythe from your back, and use a Full Round action to deliver a Coup De Grace to the helpless foe.

You automatically hit, automatically crit, and do x4 damage because scythes. If the enemy survives, it must make a Fortitude save DC 10+dmg dealt, or die anyway.

Stuff like that to guarantee and capitalize on crits is a cool way to use a scythe. You'd get to be like an undead executioner.

Yeah, that's one reason why I chose the scythe, that and it's cool. I'm playing a wood-elf, and I plan on getting a keen weapon and getting Improved Critical (scythe). I've got this feats-book that has all these background, martial, magic, and infernal feats in it, and I took Elven Blood, Fire Elf (+1 to my BAB) to start with.

[hymer]

keen weapon and [...] Improved Critical

Sorry, that would be a Nice Thing, something melee can't have. The two don't stack.

[Fouredged Sword]

What you want to do is be a cleric. Get 5th level spells. Now cast surge of fortune before combat gets going. Now you have a sure thing critical hit that you can activate at any time during combat for an auto hit and X4 damage.

What's more, get martial stude/stance for blood in the water, now every time you crit you get a stacking bonus to attack and damage.

Add divine power and Might, and you are good to go for scythe wielding CODzilla.

[Fortinbro]

The last time I played a scythe wielder I played a dread necromancer. The guy had a lot of undead around him at all times and improved trip. That way, he could knock an enemy over and the undead would dogpile on it. Since scythes also have a huge critical modifier I made it keen, serrated, etc to bump up chances of crits. I then put spell-storing on it and infused inflict spells that could then deal quadruple damage on a crit.

[Felvion]

Well i was thinking about the same when i just read this thread.
For quite a time the idea of playing a scythe weilder has really stuck in my mind. As someone mentioned in a recent post that x4 crit threat seems like a trap op-wise cause in the case of a charger a crit hit is usually massive damage even with x2. Sometimes the difference between x2 and x4 is the same that stands for a kill and .... just an overkill.So it's highly possible someone will tell you to pick another weapon and the like.
I can only suggest something i've already conveinced my DM into: give it a trip bonus like the flail. A+2 may not sound that great but it's something.
Other than this, i doubt a scythe can give anything special compared to the usual two-handed weapins. You look creepier but thats all.

[Ravens_cry]

That's actually pretty much what I have in mind. My friend is letting me play a dragon rider and I decided to try the scythe instead of the TWF I normally do. But I hate using d4's, lol

Get some Strongarm Bracers from Magic Item Compendium. Use a Large scythe without Monkey Grip and without the -2 penalty.

[Vhaidara]

IIRC, the 3.0 weapon master from Sword and Fist, while a nightmare of prereqs, ends up giving you +2 crit range and an increased multiplier. So go with something like Fighter 2/ PsiWar2 (bonus fears + expansion)/ spirit lion totem whirling frenzy barbarian 1/ [open full Bab class]/weapon master 10/disciple of dispater 4.

Depending on the order of stacking threat range increases, you have either a 15-20 or a 9-20 crit range on a x4 weapon. 5 times a day that becomes x5. 10 times a day you can auto max it (sadly not on a crit). And the scythe is, at this point, unenchanted.

[Big Fau]

A +1 Collision/Force/Skillful/Etc Heavy (MoF) Large Scythe (via Strongarm Bracers) is actually good at the low levels, and decent at the mid-levels.

[Elfkin_King]

Sorry, that would be a Nice Thing, something melee can't have. The two don't stack.
LOL, I forget that it doesn't stack. Like I said, I'm using this special feats book and under Improved Critical it says "Note: Keen magic weapons also double their normal, nonmagical threat range. As with all doubled doublings, the result is triple." Honestly, the best thing for me to do would be to cross out that whole section.

Well i was thinking about the same when i just read this thread.
For quite a time the idea of playing a scythe weilder has really stuck in my mind. As someone mentioned in a recent post that x4 crit threat seems like a trap op-wise cause in the case of a charger a crit hit is usually massive damage even with x2. Sometimes the difference between x2 and x4 is the same that stands for a kill and .... just an overkill.So it's highly possible someone will tell you to pick another weapon and the like.
I can only suggest something i've already conveinced my DM into: give it a trip bonus like the flail. A+2 may not sound that great but it's something.
Other than this, i doubt a scythe can give anything special compared to the usual two-handed weapins. You look creepier but thats all.
Maybe so, but there is the minimum damage that comes from double dice (2d4), even if I abhor d4's, lol.

Get some Strongarm Bracers from Magic Item Compendium. Use a Large scythe without Monkey Grip and without the -2 penalty.
I like this idea. Like I said before, I'm used to TWF, so two-handing is fairly foreign to me.

[Rubik]

IIRC, the 3.0 weapon master from Sword and Fist, while a nightmare of prereqs, ends up giving you +2 crit range and an increased multiplier. So go with something like Fighter 2/ PsiWar2 (bonus fears + expansion)/ spirit lion totem whirling frenzy barbarian 1/ [open full Bab class]/weapon master 10/disciple of dispater 4.

Depending on the order of stacking threat range increases, you have either a 15-20 or a 9-20 crit range on a x4 weapon. 5 times a day that becomes x5. 10 times a day you can auto max it (sadly not on a crit). And the scythe is, at this point, unenchanted.If you go for the weapon master PrC, run with it and follow up with the psychic weapon master PrC. It shares many of the same prereqs and gives many of the same benefits (and more!), and, IIRC, they stack.

[The_Werebear]

Yeah, getting that kicked up to a large Scythe gets you 2d6, which saves you from using the d4's you hate.

I would recommend spell storing (if you aren't using the Ghoul Idea) and putting a Ghoul Touch or Hold Person in it. Smack them with it, then follow up with a coup de grace next round. Saves you a feat (and a template) and plays well with the Cleric idea (though, anyone could put the spells in for you). Swift Executioner might be good here too.

[Vhaidara]

Where is psywm? I can't find it on dndtools. Also, remember we only have 4 levels after normal wm.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Where is psywm? I can't find it on dndtools. Also, remember we only have 4 levels after normal wm.

Right here (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)

[Rubik]

Right here (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)Note that the psychic weapon master grants Whirlwind Attack for free, allowing you to more easily segue into regular weapon master. It also grants kensai benefits (auto-augmenting your weapon) and manifesting and even more goodies.

[SiuiS]

There's a weapon quality, maiming I think, that in the original source changed your crit multiplier to a die. A scythe, at x4, would deal x1d8 on a crit. Throw on that aura or stance or whatnot that lets you reroll 1s, or wait I've got that bass ackwards. It's a feat? I can't remember, it's part of the infinite d2 damage build.

Anyway.

Shift your crit multiplier from maybe only double or triple, but possibly up to octuple the damage.

Also, talk to your DM about cool custom weapons. Like, maybe the scythe is serrated, so if you roll a 4 on either damage die, you deal +1 damage (+2 if you roll max damage) or something.

[Vhaidara]

I have concerns about the 3rd level manifesting. That means straight psywar 7.

Which, double checking them, isn't as much of a problem due to psi lion's charge (don't want to lose pounce).

Also, if a flaw is allowed, grab ancestral relic. Double the HD based weapon enhancements!

[NightbringerGGZ]

In PF it's fun to combo a scythe wielding character with one based on fishing for crits that uses the Butterfly Sting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical) feat. A Barbarian and a Rogue work very well together. The Rogue can TWF with 15-20 crit range weapons and when he confirms a crit forgo the doubled damage to let the Barbarian get a guaranteed crit with this next attack.

I don't know if a similar feat is in 3.5 though.

[Cirrylius]

maybe the scythe is serrated,
:smallconfused:I thought serrated was 3rd party.

[Elfkin_King]

I like the idea of using the Strong Arm Bracers-- saves the feat and reduces the penalty to 0. Hold Person sounds like the better spell, but I'm not used to using spell casters, and I foresee the problem of limited uses out of that. :/ Would I be able to put charges of that (able to cast x times/day) on the shaft if I use a Weighted shaft (since the shaft can be enchanted with up to half the enhancements of the actual weapon, but count as a separate weapon entirely for such. (If I understood that correctly.) Or something similar? (a way to shove wands inside of the shaft?)
I'm still going to take Improved Critical (Scythe), because I've seen that for a few Prestige classes.
Getting Ancestral Relic wouldn't be a terrible idea, it gives me a way to improve my weapon drastically.

Could someone give me a link to what exactly serrated does?

Collision could be a nice touch, and throwing in Power Attack and Cleave might not hurt either.

[Fouredged Sword]

You are looking for a wand chamber. It lets you store 1 wand per weapon. A scythe defiantly qualifies as having a long enough handle.

[Elfkin_King]

You are looking for a wand chamber. It lets you store 1 wand per weapon. A scythe defiantly qualifies as having a long enough handle.

OK, good. Are the expensive? And would it be reasonable to get a wand that would cast "Hold Person x/day"? If so, how would I go about pricing all of that?

[Rubik]

You are looking for a wand chamber. It lets you store 1 wand per weapon. A scythe defiantly qualifies as having a long enough handle.You can also add one to each gauntlet and animated shield and boot blade and sleeve blade and braid blade and tail scythe (if you have a tail, anyway) and THREE to an elvencraft longbow. All but the latter can be used simultaneously easily enough, all of which can be used to store whatever spells you want on-hand for use with your scythe.

[Zetapup]

Let's see. Psychic Weapons Master and Disciple of Dispater have been mentioned, which are the best ways of increasing crit range. Barbarian 7, using the cityscape acf, increases crit range by 1 on a charge or when the enemy is flatfooted. Mythic Exemplar 2 choosing sunyartra (I have no idea if I spelled that correctly) lets you increase your crit range by 1 for a minute per day.

If you want a wand that lets you cast hold person x times per day instead of using charges, you could look at eternal wands. They let you cast a spell 2/day and are a bit more expensive than normal wands of their level.

[Fouredged Sword]

It is a sorc/wis spell (3rd level), so you can get an eternal wand that can cast it 2/day at CL 5 and DC 14 for 10900gp a piece. That is more expensive than practical. By the time you can afford that, the save is negligible.

[SiuiS]

:smallconfused:I thought serrated was 3rd party.

I'm saying "make $@*! up". "Hey DM, I have a cool idea, can I do this?"

We had a villain who used a modified flamberge blade rapier. It wobbled and in line with the swoops, managed to do this weird puncture like an asterisk. It was a complicated non magical weapon, that rolled d8 instead of d6 if the attack roll was a natural 20, and dealth bonus damage equal to the damage roll result above 4 (on a d6, it did +1 if he rolled 5, and +2 if he rolled 6, for a damage spread of 1,2,3,4,6,8; never crit thankfully). It wasn't overpowered, didn't really add anything to the mechanical side except a weird skew to damage output, and was weaker than a lot of other possibilities. But the first time the DM tossed a d8 because he rolled 20, the players all swallowed and thought through the ramifications of a 12+ Base damage rapier as a wild card.

If you have a cool idea, explain it to the DM and research it in character. Then pay and build it. Never know if it'll work out good or not, but it's flavorful.

[Ravens_cry]

Some DM might be OK with that, some DM might not. You really need the right kind of DM to pull that kind of stuff.

[Elfkin_King]

It is a sorc/wis spell (3rd level), so you can get an eternal wand that can cast it 2/day at CL 5 and DC 14 for 10900gp a piece. That is more expensive than practical. By the time you can afford that, the save is negligible.

Then it may just be better to let the DM know that I would like to find a wand that would cast such a spell, or ask one of the other players (if they are a Bard, Cleric, or Wiz/Sorc) to use that spell.

[Crake]

Bless weapon makes it so a weapon doesn't need to confirm criticals vs evil (or corrupt weapon for use vs good), combine that with full power attack shenannigans and surge of fortune to automatically get a natural 20 on your next attack, can autocrit for stupid amounts of damage. Cleric/prestige paladin can do this, or a cleric/blackguard for corrupt weapon no sweat.

[ericgrau]

Have a wizard cast hold person into a spell storing scythe so the save DC actually matters. Hit foe, coup de grace next round.

[SiuiS]

Some DM might be OK with that, some DM might not. You really need the right kind of DM to pull that kind of stuff.

Yeah. But doesn't hurt to ask!


Bless weapon makes it so a weapon doesn't need to confirm criticals vs evil (or corrupt weapon for use vs good), combine that with full power attack shenannigans and surge of fortune to automatically get a natural 20 on your next attack, can autocrit for stupid amounts of damage. Cleric/prestige paladin can do this, or a cleric/blackguard for corrupt weapon no sweat.

Oh, there's a feat chain from a second party source, Rokugan, that gives you auto-crit on a hit, too. Combining the two results in every actual hit being a critical!

That's not that impressive though, when you consider that you're taking several feats to roll 8d4+[6*str], and the same feat investment can get you much more. Switching to an alchemical gold full blade with a couple size boosts for a 6d8 plus.

[Crake]

Yeah. But doesn't hurt to ask!



Oh, there's a feat chain from a second party source, Rokugan, that gives you auto-crit on a hit, too. Combining the two results in every actual hit being a critical!

That's not that impressive though, when you consider that you're taking several feats to roll 8d4+[6*str], and the same feat investment can get you much more. Switching to an alchemical gold full blade with a couple size boosts for a 6d8 plus.

It's more impressive when you completely ignore attack bonuses by pumping it all into power attack (and combat expertise if you want extra AC), because you auto roll a natural twenty, so you end up dealing 8x your BAB in extra damage. Plus if you get some kind of smite ability or the like (say from prestige paladin or blackguard) that also gets quadrupled, if you have leap attack, you'll instead get 16x bab, suddenly the numbers start to add up, and of course... you're auto hitting, auto critting, so unless the thing is immune to crits, it's taking that damage, no questions about it (barring any miss chance i guess, that still counts)

[hymer]

unless the thing is immune to crits, it's taking that damage, no questions about it (barring any miss chance i guess, that still counts)

Ve haf vays (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm) to make (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-adventurer--54/grave-strike--373/) seese problems go avay.

Edit: Whoops, mistake with Gravestrike there. Sorry.

[Aliek]

That's not that impressive though, when you consider that you're taking several feats to roll 8d4+[6*str], and the same feat investment can get you much more. Switching to an alchemical gold full blade with a couple size boosts for a 6d8 plus.

That's actually quite impressive, since an auto-crit function is one of the few that stacks multiplicatively with your base damage.

Say you stack a couple size increases, full leap attack and you'll deal, say, 4d6+40. Averages out 54 or so. If you can get charge multipliers, say a x4 or so, not really that hard. Perhaps a bit harder without lances, but you get the drill.
Then it'll be 216. With a x4 guaranteed crit? 864. That's overkill for most things, but most of an ubercharge's strength comes from how leap attack and charge multipliers multiply themselves(and shock trooper for making you not miss, of course), so how about an added, real multiplier at the end?

[Elfkin_King]

Have a wizard cast hold person into a spell storing scythe so the save DC actually matters. Hit foe, coup de grace next round.

This sounds perfect. I could get the party's Sorc/wiz(/cleric/bard?) to cast it in at the end of each day, provided they haven't already used it. Is there a similar weapon ability (greater spell storing?) that does the same thing, but on a higher level? Because, from what I understood, Hold Creature would be better than Hold Person, because it doesn't specify Humanoid.

Edit: Or even the mass versions of either of those would be great.