Weapon Specialization (Touch Spells)

[Fax Celestis]

So, if for some reason I'm a gish and get it in my head to take Weapon Spec (Touch Spells), I get to add +2 damage to my touch attack spells that deal damage.

...what happens with Weapon Supremacy in this case? And can I take Imp. Unarmed Strike and Versatile Strike to make my Touch Spells qualify for feats like Slashing Flurry?

[Matthew]

You can't specialise with Ray Attacks. You can Focus with them, but not specialise.



WEAPON FOCUS [GENERAL]
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
A fighter may select Weapon Focus as one of his fighter bonus feats. He must have Weapon Focus with a weapon to gain the Weapon Specialization feat for that weapon.



WEAPON SPECIALIZATION [GENERAL]
Choose one type of weapon for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple as your weapon for purposes of this feat. You deal extra damage when using this weapon.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
A fighter may select Weapon Specialization as one of his fighter bonus feats.

[The_Snark]

Touch Spell Specialization and Ray Specialization are separately listed feats from Weapon Specialization, and presumably they don't qualify you for the rest of the Weapon Specialization chain of feats.

[Matthew]

Interesting, what book are they in?

[Fax Celestis]

And why exactly can't I apply Weapon Specialization to spells? Rays and most touch attacks are weaponlike spells, and can therefore qualify as "a weapon I have taken Weapon Focus for."

[Matthew]

Notice the omission in the text above. Ray Spells are included in Weapon Focus, but excluded from Weapon Specialisation.

[Mewtarthio]

It's entirely possible that, since Fighter Level 4 is a prereq, they simply assumed that no spellcaster would ever take the feat.

[Fax Celestis]

They're not excluded, they're just not mentioned. If they were excluded it would say "(but not touch or ray spells)". Taking Weapon Focus (Rays) means you've taken Weapon Focus with a weapon: ray spells. Therefore, it is eligible for Weapon Specialization, since it is a weapon you have taken Weapon Focus for.

[Matthew]

I think the fact that they have to indicate that you can choose Unarmed, Grapple or Ray as a weapon is a good indication that special dispensation is being made for them [i.e. they are not actually weapons, but they can be considered as such for the purpose of this Feat]. The fact that Unarmed and Grapple are again mentioned with regard to the Specialisation Feat and Ray is not, is a fairly straight forward differentiation.

Of course, unless there is some errata or FAQ that states the contrary, you are free to interpret it however you wish.

[Mewtarthio]

I think the fact that they have to indicate that you can choose Unarmed, Grapple or Ray as a weapon is a good indication that special dispensation is being made for them [i.e. they are not actually weapons, but they can be considered as such for the purpose of this Feat]. The fact that Unarmed and Grapple are again mentioned with regard to the Specialisation Feat and Ray is not, is a fairly straight forward differentiation.

Not necessarily. It may simply be a clarification: "Oh, yeah, and when we say anything that you took Weapon Focus for, we also mean things like grapple and unarmed strike." They wouldn't think to mention "ray" because few fourth-level fighters use ray attacks.

[Fax Celestis]

Exactly. And the original question remains:


...what happens with Weapon Supremacy in this case? And can I take Imp. Unarmed Strike and Versatile Strike to make my Touch Spells qualify for feats like Slashing Flurry?

[Matthew]

Well, if you allow Ranged Touch Attacks to work with Specialisation, then yes, if not, then no.

I think this Feat that The_Snark referenced probably clears matters up:

Ranged Spell Specialisation (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Ranged_Spell_Specialization,all)

[Shhalahr Windrider]

You can't take the Mastery feats with weaponlike spells because the feats require you to select a weapon that deals bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing damage. Rays and Touch spells don't fall into any of those categories. At least, not by default. I'd recommend coming up with homebrew versions of Supremacy and Mastery for weaponlike spells.

It would probably also be better form to convert your current feat to Touch Spell Specialization and use that as a prerequisite for any homebrew feats you come up with

Matthew: Ranged Spell Specialization and Touch Spell Specialization are from Complete Arcane

[Matthew]

Thanks Shhalahr, I had just found the ranged version before you posted and linked it above.