New Group. DM (me!) needs a refresher.

[gurgleflep]

I'm just gonna cut to the chase to save on time: I spoke with some old friends of mine at a party and found out they played some AD&D but recently lost their DM for some reason or another. After speaking with them, they convinced me to DM for them. I only know 3.5 though, told `em this, and they're willing to learn. Problem is, I've never had to actually teach players, my group already knew the game. In addition to this, I haven't done any actual DMing in probably a year so I'm in need of a refresher course myself :smalleek: Is there anything that I should absolutely read over again?

This group will have 5-6 people in it and I'd like to stick to core and psionics for them as it's their first time and it'll make things easier on me. We'll likely be starting on the 8th of this month and while that's not a set date, it's the first day we're all available for play.

[Phelix-Mu]

Start at 1st. Core and EPH are wise choices. I'd avoid any of the LA races from EPH.

Use a module for inspiration. Many DMs have benefited from a dry run using established, tested encounters set up in an organized framework. Once you get your feet wet, then remove the training wheels. (Yay, mixed metaphors!)

Take things easy. Possibly allow a bit of retraining after the first 4-6 sessions, since by then some of them will likely be realizing if they made any poor choices, but try to persuade them all from radically changing things (unless that is really necessary due to party dynamic or something).

Also, don't worry about optimization. System mastery is a matter of experience playing, and a low-op, amateur campaign with core options is not likely to stress even large tier gaps (unless some of the group are familiar with the broke of casters from previous editions, which is entirely possible).

Re-read the chapter with CR and ELs in the DMG. Then ignore it. It explains some nice ideas on how to balance encounters, then relies on the CRs from the Monster Manuals, which are generally not reliable in practice. Use the concepts and stick to encounters with 1-2 types of monsters using tactics instead of massive numbers to provide challenge.

In particular, AD&D had enhanced low-level lethality. Beware making things too horrible-seeming, as vets of older editions are probably full of caution at low levels, anyway.

[Honest Tiefling]

Consider using a module, but one where you can start off slow. Rather then dropping them into mortal combat with goblins, consider a festival to get used to attack rolls/skill rolls/etc.

Have everyone cooperate with group goals and methods. Consider having them be related or know each other so RP can be more smooth and no having to remake a PC because it doesn't play well with the others.

Anyone playing a spellcaster or something with complicated rules (Druid) might wanna write down their abilities/spell word for word or things will drag on.

[gurgleflep]

Thanks you two, that's really helpful :smallsmile:
Any particular modules? I've only heard of a small handful and they're mostly for parties levels 10 and up.

[Zombimode]

This group will have 5-6 people in it and I'd like to stick to core and psionics for them as it's their first time and it'll make things easier on me.

Hm, why? Why not simply have all books open and let the players individually decide how much bookdiving they want to do.

In my experience the insecure players will stick to the SRD anyway, but why stifling the ambitous player? Besides that learning how to play a ToB character is much easier than learning how to play a core-only full caster.


There is also an argument for not starting at level 1. You want them to learn the game. If you start at level 1, they will pick a class and think they are done. But this isn't how 3.5 works. Going single classed needs to be a conscious choice. If you start at level 3 the actual possibilities of the rule set present itself much clearer.
Level 3 characters are also much more rounded and "complete" in my experience in that you can actually realize many concepts which isn't really possible at level 1.


I guess my general advice is this: 3.5 is a complex game. If you want them to really understand the system, don't go to easy on them. Present them the full thing. If someone wants to dig in, he can and will. If not, he can stick to the SRD. And thats fine too.



Thanks you two, that's really helpful :smallsmile:
Any particular modules? I've only heard of a small handful and they're mostly for parties levels 10 and up.

From my quick look over Savage Tide, it looks like a nice campaign (it starts at level 1). It starts in a big harbor city that is quite detailed. The plot of the first adventure is rather open for different routes and interaction. It probably needs work, but it offers a solid foundation.
Of course, since the campaign parts are written by different authors, the quality and style is open for fluctuation.

[Brookshw]

I agree with a small book range for new players learning the rules, there's a lot that they'll have to adapt to between editions. regarding modules, sorry, I don't really use them so couldn't say. Did they have any favorite old settings that would be familiar?

New avatar?

[killem2]

Keep it simple man. Very very simple.

When I started as a DM, I used core ONLY.

Maybe things go very smooth. Now I know you are not a first time DM but I think it works both ways.

I also had a couple new players since I have been DMing, and keeping things tight works well. In this case here is what I would suggest:

Allow Core, Spell Comp, Magic Item Comp, Expanded Psionic Handbook. Level adjusted races are fine, but do not allow level buy off yet. Let them experience what it is really like to have level adjustment so they can really understand the buy off at a later time.

I would use either a pre-made adventure or keep yours very simple hack and slash just to get the combat stage under their belt.

[Trilby]

My two cents: I've recently started DM'ing for a group of first time players. My guys 'n gals are completely new to roleplaying, so that's a difference with your setup.

I started them off at lvl 2, with Core, PHB2, Completes, the Races ofs, MiC, SpC, ToB, ToM, and EPH. Options galore! There's a 5 book/build limit (so far the most intricate builds use 3 books), but rule of cool/DM fiat trumps that. Here's how we made this work: Most of the first session was spent by us 1) thinking up character concepts, 2) generating the characters, 3) deciding on goals for the campaign, and 4) me prepping for our first session later that day (I'd done most of the world-building beforehand). I contributed mostly to the party-generation by pointing them towards interesting classes/PrCs/feats matching their concepts so far.

This helped align the party, their backstories (free plot hooks, awesome!), and their overall goal traveling together (for now, anyway). It may sound like a lot of effort, but this made for a very coherent first two hours of play. I don't think using a module would make for a vastly different experience, depending on your familiarity with the material, either your own world or a module might suit your style of DM'ing better.

We've made cheat sheets for everyone's class features, had the PHB opened to the skills section for reference, and off we went. I cannot recommend those cheat sheets enough, it allowed for very fast stuff-looking-up-ness. Best way to use a block of post-its.

We're now 6 sessions in, and last session they levelled up. They were allowed to change everything. One player changed their wizard to a warmage, everyone else took a new level in their current class. I plan to offer a 'full refund' for the next level up too, after which the PHB2 retraining rules come into existence.

TL;DR: Options don't have to be overwhelming, so long as you all have a clear picture of what you want to do in game. And starting at a level where you can't be killed by 8 out of 10 angry cats seemed like a good idea. As always, YMMV.

[killem2]

Now that I am thinking about it, throw in TOB, it's one of the best, it should be an option.

[Honest Tiefling]

Why not intstead of showing them the Magic Item Compendium, introduce it slowly via loot and prewritten cards/notes?

[Drogorn]

I think you should offer and encourage ToB. Discourage the traps that are the fighter or monk.

[Blackhawk748]

I recommend the Fright at Tristor, there is combat, Roleplaying, investigation as well as a nice sprinkling of cool loot.

[gurgleflep]

Yikes, lotta comments! :smalleek: I gotta stop sleeping for such long periods of time.

Okay, from what I gathered I should (condensed!)
not start at level 1, but still start them off early
allow a few additional books for some extra variety
LAs are alright, don't let `em go overboard though
try not to scare `cause previous editions were deadly
use a module or a simple dungeon/quest
have a reason for them to adventure with one another


That sound about right? :smalltongue:

Edit: and yes Brookshw, it's a new avatar. Got talked into making it by some avatarists.