Adaptation Help: Pathfinder + Gestalt in Ebberon?

[Shrikethrush]

Hullo! I'm working on a new campaign for my friends. I'm interested in adapting the Eberron setting into Pathfinder rules, and also using the Gestalt alternative rule.

There are two sites I've found that have set out to convert Eberron sources into Pathfinder. Pathfinder's a bit higher-powered than 3.5.

Gestalt rules are generally used to only apply to the main player characters, but I'm gestalting EVERYTHING. Additionally, per my house rules LA takes up one half of a gestalt progression rather than an entire level.

The fluff is that there's a fourth Progenitor Wurm, the Dragon Without, whom was responsible for the destruction of Cyre and the creation of the Mournland, and whom has a vested interest in corrupting his three more powerful siblings (The dragons Above and Below, and Eberron itself.) He's doing this by heightening the level of eldritch magic and strangeness in Eberron, and attempting to draw all of the planes into alignment, manipulate the Dreaming Dark and Inspired by posing as Khbyer, etc.

All very Lovecraftian.

What I'm looking for is advice on the full implications of turning Eberron fully gestalt, and advice on applying these rules in a systematic way.

My present ideas:

- Animals and unintelligent creatures gain templates, running their LA along the other side of the Racial Hit Dice - Horrid, Magebred, Warbeast, Pseudonatural, etc.

- Intelligent monsters and humanoids with racial Hit Dice get an NPC class running along the side of their racial HD.

- Intelligent monsters and humanoids with NPC class levels gain PC classes along the side of their NPC class levels, usually not spell casting classes. (too much work to keep up with, rarely have good enough mental stats, etc)

The PCs are going to be survivors of the destruction of Cyre, and will gradually find out about what's causing all this bizarre mutations.

I'm still working on how the Nations will respond individually to the increased monster threats, how the Dragons of Argonessen will see all this in terms of the Prophecy, how the Houses would respond, whether beings other Planes would be interested in why their planes are being accelerated/slowed down in their rotations, if they're even aware.

Any advice or suggestions about how to play this out in a fun, playable way are very welcome! I'm also interested in suggesting for how new Pathfinder classes - the Alchemist, the Witch, the Summoner, the Oracle - and the modified core classes would affect Eberron, and how best to include them.

Really, anything helps - I want to avoid the Gestalt and weirdness becoming gimmicky, and provide challenging but intuitive gameplay, and help them appreciate what Pathfinder and Eberron have to offer.

[ArendK]

Awesome idea with the Dragon Without. Consider it poached next time I run Eberron.

Sounds like you are trying to build an Elder Evil. I'd suggest looking into the book to see a few good ideas for an Entropy based apocalypse.

I'd hold off on adding templates to everything; a dog should not be running around with the pseudonatural template for no reason. Maybe as the Dragon Withouts effects become more and more evident; they should see it in the wilderness as window dressing.

On that note; I suggest holding gestalt for humanoid-esque NPC's to really make it strike home. My first gestalt campaign, I matched 8 level 5 gestalts in Eberron against some very foul ideas. My party still remembers them fondly (the paladin/cleric and his mount were nearly drowned early on by a were-crocodile ogre fighter/barbarian).

But not every creature needs to re-invent the wheel; I used Bleakborn (it was an undead campaign, Atropos was the Elder Evil I used for it) to represent an encounter where they were sent to investigate a village in Karrnath that had no one had heard from and lacked the magical ability to view the area. The village, built on a manifest zone linked weakly to Risia, is a frozen nightmare, all snow and ice when they arrive. The party here's shuffling in one of the buildings, combined with some undead moaning.
The party's magi's (half the party were spell-slingers, with two of them 2 arcane-doombots) start chucking fireballs and flamestrikes into these buildings not wanting to take any chances. Well...read into Libris Mortis and see what fire does to the Bleakborn. They were level 9 at the time. Even at 13-14th level, they feared the bleakborn both due to the description and their abilities.

Either way;

House Deneith is going to be rolling in the money; as people start seeing more and more monsters running around, they are going to want/need more protection. So Darguun and the Daughters of Sora Kell, who lend mercs to the House, will also be gaining in power.

The 5 Nations, minus Karranth, will likely go into lockdown to try to contain the threats. Karrnath, with all these beasts, will be having a blast raising them for their army. The lockdown will hurt trade and relations with the other nations.

The Dragons I pay little heed to in my game; it just gets goofy when they get involved in my opinion. However, if you DO want a dragon in the plot, I can think of two that are useful;

Rhashaak (check my spelling, it's been a while and I don't have the books) is by far among the most terrifying dragons in the game as far as a concept. The half-demon black wyrm guarding an old volcano can be sitting on a wealth of treasure and ancient plot based McGuffins.

Or my personal favorite; Vol herself. She can be uber-tough in just a straight Pathfinder conversion alone, much less adding in gestalt. We ran a campaign where she was a the BBEG; I ran the party through the Tomb of Horrors just to get part of her phylactery (I used the Harry Potter trick and did multiple phylacteries) as well as a fight with an ancient Green Dragon Ghost (Emerald Claw himself). She was by far the hardest for the party without gestalt. She can be brought in through the attempts at manipulating the planar movements to re-activate her dragonmark.

[Shrikethrush]

Thanks for appreciating the idea, it was met with scorn by my DM friend who I consulted for advice :) Good to hear some positive feedback.

The Elder Evil mention is fantastic . . that's exactly what I'm building for, and I have the book laying around collecting dust.

I like the idea that he's a force for entropy - it helps define his motivation; he's trying to eat the his siblings and consume their energy, and the weird templates, drawing the planes together, gestalt, etc, is him drawing magic out of Eberron, like those picture of suns having their mass siphoned by a black hole. Cyre and the Mournland was his first 'bite', and Eberron replied with enough power to obliterate the entire nation, which sent the Dragon Without reeling. Now, four years later, he's back, and being a little more circumspect.

His plan is to overwhelm Eberron by bringing all the planes into alignment, so that Eberron won't be able defend himself.

You're right . . I think working with the general idea of EL+2 as being a challenging encounter for a Gestalt party would be workable, and I can save the Gestalt for the humanoid enemies. The weird templates can be saved for later in the campaign; early on, I'm going to include Horrid animals where they shouldn't be - away from the Mournland - as the first hint that something is going wrong.

I'll be using the Dragons at one point as a source of information for the party; finding a particular scholar-dragon with a radical interpretation of the Prophecy - looking not where the dragonmarks appear, but where they don't - the first entity to notice what's missing and hint at the identity of the BBEG. I think a big part of horror comes from not knowing or understanding what you're going up against, until you build up to the Revelation.

The point about house Deneith is a good point; maybe I'll start them out in Darguun, and have Deneith reps come around looking to hire some capable folk to help with defense; the players will have been Cyrian refugees, whom probably fought in the Last War. This would help with people wanting to play monstrous or templated characters, since they'll be in Darguun (monsters are more accepted, I gather.) and the templates be a result of magical contamination from exposure to the Mournland.

[ArendK]

Also; with the Mournlands effects spreading;

Remember the healing effect that is blocked? That will begin to really wear on the party if you work it that the blockage spreads as well as a result of the Dragon Withouts effects.

Decide on a form for the Dragon Without; I imagine a scary, multi-winged shadow-dragon esque form that resembles something from the Star Ocean series.

With Pathfiner, and Eberron especially, the goblinoids are a very solid and viable race; I used a Hobgoblin Samurai of the Blue Rose; dedicated to peace and cooperation. But he was decidedly a bad-mamma-jamma with his katana.
I'd encourage their use as a race.

[Shrikethrush]

The Dragon Without appears as an enormous coiled serpent. He appears transparent, and through him you see a starry void distorted by a barely visible scale-pattern. Along his back is a pronounced spinal ridge from which emerge long wings - set upon set upon set, pair upon pair upon pair. As he moves through the air, the wings undulate like the underbelly of a serpent slithering through space.

His head is difficult to discern, but resembles that of a shadow-dragon. Only within his five eyes - set in a star-pattern - are there no stars. They devour light, generating a cone of magical darkness stretching to wherever his gaze rests.

=

I'm going to encourage Goblinoid races, definitely - Pathfinder's perspective on goblinoids makes them a lot more playable (Goblins are adorably vicious).

=

Hrm. Warforged do really well in the Mournland, no wonder the Lord of Blades is chilling in there. I'll certainly need to include him as an NPC of interest in figuring out this whole mess.

Goodberry still works in the Mournland, so I'm thinking Goodberries are going to be something available for purchase so that they have some form of healing going on. An Eternal Wand of Goodberry might be something they'd need to find.

[ArendK]

The Lord of Blades in Gestalt; there are few bigger engines of destruction (even if you use his recommended base level (12 I think) and rework his stats...

Warblade 12/Artificier 7/Juggernaut 5....It's scary as Khyber. Especially since most Pathfinder builds I've seen for Warforged don't require them to waste a feat to pick up their Armor body.

I'd almost forgotten about him until you mentioned him; while he might be ecstatic that the Mournlands effects are expanding; he might himself be under siege from the freakish creatures that are pinning everyone else down.

As for the Dragon Without's appearance, go with what works for you; the description you gave reminds me of a picture in one of the FR books of the Dream Snake of doom thing (I can't remember it's name).