3rd Party Time Domain: Moment of Pause broken?

[QuackParker]

Is the Time Domain's power of Moment of Pause broken?

It reads:

Moment of Pause (Sp): As a melee touch attack, you can stop time for one creature briefly, freezing them in place. For one round, the creature can take no action and experiences time as if that round never took place.

So far the interpretation has been it freezes in place if the touch succeeds, but everyone can still attack it to do damage. And since there is no save or limit, it stays frozen forever every time the touch attack succeeds.

Link to the D20 page is here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/3rd-party-publishers---domains/4-winds-fantasy-gaming---domains/time-domain

Thoughts?

[koboldish]

I don't have a lot of experience, but I personally would NEVER allow that in one of my games. It seems pretty broken to me.

[Forrestfire]

Well, it has a time limit ("for one round"), and I'd imagine that it can't be attacked, as the creature "experiences time as if that round never took place."

If you hit him during that time, it's negated, since it experienced it as if it didn't happen.

[koboldish]

Yeah, but at level 1 you could permanently lock anyone out of a whole fight with no so saves. Assuming your touch attacks are good enough, of course. If they can't take hits, it's less broken, but I still think it needs to come at a later level or allow a save of some sort.

[Forrestfire]

Oh, I think my brain actively blocked out that bit of insanity. I could have sworn I read a "once per day" thing in that.

So yes, kill it with fire :smalleek:

[Dorian Gray]

Not to mention that hitting with a touch attack is really, really easy. Plus, even if it was only usable once a day, I would still say it was broken, because it's a no-save 1-round stun. If the party got that off on the BBEG, they could all nova with no chance of missing. Seriously, this thing is hella broken.

[TuggyNE]

Not to mention that hitting with a touch attack is really, really easy. Plus, even if it was only usable once a day, I would still say it was broken, because it's a no-save 1-round stun. If the party got that off on the BBEG, they could all nova with no chance of missing. Seriously, this thing is hella broken.

It's not stun, but time hop. No-save "this creature is not part of the fight".

Still, this does seem to be rather thoroughly excessive.

[Renen]

While problematic if the characted decides to use it on a major boss, there are a few things to remember. (Running a game where a player is using it?)

1) MELEE touch attack

2) Its basically time stop spell for one round on one target. The target turns invulnerable.

3) Using it on a mook is terrybad, seeing as you are also outta commission.

[QuackParker]

So I don't want to outright ban it, so I think I am allowing it with the following caveats.

Creature is invulnerable while under the effects of Moment of Pause as though he were removed from time.

Spell Resistance applies to resisting Moment of Pause.

[koboldish]

Not sure if it fixes anything, but how about making it a full round action?

[Renen]

Btw, you know that its not the only 3rd party time domain right?

[TuggyNE]

So I don't want to outright ban it, so I think I am allowing it with the following caveats.

Creature is invulnerable while under the effects of Moment of Pause as though he were removed from time.

Spell Resistance applies to resisting Moment of Pause.

Neither is really adequate, since it's still an infinitely-usable "I don't want to fight you just yet, so you can't fight me."


Not sure if it fixes anything, but how about making it a full round action?

Not much, no.

[Renen]

Btw, you know that its not the only 3rd party time domain right?

Anyone? Or do I have to spoon feed the answer

[TuggyNE]

Anyone? Or do I have to spoon feed the answer

Does it matter? Anyone who cares about other Time domains that are not the subject of the thread can, I doubt not, go and look them up with no particular difficulty. But unless those other domains also have an ability marked Moment of Pause, I don't see the point.

[Renen]

Does it matter? Anyone who cares about other Time domains that are not the subject of the thread can, I doubt not, go and look them up with no particular difficulty. But unless those other domains also have an ability marked Moment of Pause, I don't see the point.

As a matter of fact... they (actually it, since theres only one other) do.

[grarrrg]

Seems to me likes it's missing a "3+WIS/day" clause in there like the vast majority of other 1st level Domain powers.


As a matter of fact... they (actually it, since theres only one other) do.

Considering the original poster not only linked to the one he's talking about, but also copy/pasted the ability in question, I really fail to see why we need to care about any other Time Domains.

[Malcador]

It appears that the Purple Duck Games time domain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/3rd-party-publishers---domains/purple-duck-games---domains/time-domain) is just a rebalanced version of the 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming time domain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/3rd-party-publishers---domains/4-winds-fantasy-gaming---domains/time-domain). Its moment of pause explicitly works like time stop, and has a per-day usage limit. Also, the 8th level ability is usable slightly more often, but can't take you back as far in time, and there are two subdomains.

I would recommend using the Purple Duck Games version instead of the 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming version, though the ability is useful enough that 3 + Wis mod uses per day may still be too many.

[Renen]

The above guy got it. Good on you.

As to why we should care, for exactly the same reason the above responder pointed out.
The duck one is basicall the same thing, just rebalanced. Since OP wanted to know how to handle the ability, the rebalanced one gives a very good answer. Though adding stuff like SR or a save is still a possibility.

[grarrrg]

The above guy got it. Good on you.

As to why we should care, for exactly the same reason the above responder pointed out.
The duck one is basicall the same thing, just rebalanced. Since OP wanted to know how to handle the ability, the rebalanced one gives a very good answer. Though adding stuff like SR or a save is still a possibility.

Hooray for you for wasting 4 posts, when you could have just said "this other 3rd party is the same but more balanced" and not wasted a bunch of words/time.
Hooray.

[Renen]

But its just so much better making you figure it out on your own.
And it was funny to see people who assumed I was just rambling off topic, untill someone just went and checked the (very short) list of 3rd pt domains

[TuggyNE]

But its just so much better making you figure it out on your own.
And it was funny to see people who assumed I was just rambling off topic, untill someone just went and checked the (very short) list of 3rd pt domains

Yes yes, you're just like Socrates. Splendid and all, but the Socratic method does not work as well when you're exchanging plain-text messages with people who don't know you from a hole in the wall … or, more pertinently, from someone who is in fact just rambling. Since the method is focused on teaching how to come to the right answer, rather than actually giving the right answer, it is only really suitable for long-term and fairly intensive relationships, and only between a defined mentor and one or more defined students.

It's actually very similar to the reason I deliberately use blue text to denote sarcasm: it's awesome if you don't need that, but most people do.

[QuackParker]

Malcador

It appears that the Purple Duck Games time domain is just a rebalanced version of the 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming time domain. Its moment of pause explicitly works like time stop, and has a per-day usage limit. Also, the 8th level ability is usable slightly more often, but can't take you back as far in time, and there are two subdomains.

I would recommend using the Purple Duck Games version instead of the 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming version, though the ability is useful enough that 3 + Wis mod uses per day may still be too many.

I will implement the Purple Ducks Games version of the domain from now on.

Thanks Malcador and everyone else that weighed in for the help!

[Zancloufer]

All things considered its really not THAT broken. Yes if you succeed a Melee touch attack they can't do anything for one round, but nor can you do anything to them. It's a no save CC that requires a melee touch attack. Also being a Domain Power its really a Su/SLA so Anti-Magic fields and Spell Resistance should apply to it.

Yes you can prevent someone from taking an action indefinitely, but they are also invincible at the same time and you have to be right beside them poking them constantly. Probably should be limited times per day, but it's not outright better than a lot of cleric spells. At the low levels where it is "insanely powerful" you have a decent chance to miss, and by the time you will consistently hit touch AC you have better things to spend you actions on than locking one creature out of the fight entirely.

[TuggyNE]

Yes you can prevent someone from taking an action indefinitely, but they are also invincible at the same time and you have to be right beside them poking them constantly. Probably should be limited times per day, but it's not outright better than a lot of cleric spells. At the low levels where it is "insanely powerful" you have a decent chance to miss, and by the time you will consistently hit touch AC you have better things to spend you actions on than locking one creature out of the fight entirely.

To which I reply, time hop is a third-level power, Will negates. Dropping the save is worth another six or seven power levels, although reducing the duration offsets that to some extent, so effectively this is a 7th- or 8th-level power usable at will.

Yeah, see, no, that's just broken.

[Endarire]

Reminds me a bit of time hop (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/t/time-hop).

[Renen]

Reminds me a bit of time hop (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/t/time-hop).

Hey guys, theres this psionic power...
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/128/slowpoke_pokemon.gif

[QuackParker]

At least the Purple Duck version eliminates the features that made it truly broken, like the ambiguity that lent itself to freezing a monster in place AND still allowing it to take damage. Plus, this version sets a limit to how often it can be used, which is also helpful.

[Renen]

And yet some people still nagged me for not helping properly :D

[Psyren]

Spell Resistance applies to resisting Moment of Pause.

SR already applies seeing as it's a spell-like ability and not Su.

Beyond that most of what I would say in this thread has been said by others.