A campaign centered around a DMPC

[ko_sct]

Yep, you read that right, but please, do continue reading before posting about how horrible this idea is.
(For those who consider DMPC to be bad by definition, feel free to mentally replace every instance of DMPC with ''NPC adventuring with the players'')


I've had this idea for some time and I'd like to share it and get some feedback.

The premise is quite simple, the PCs are hired by a rich and powerful noble who take pride in his many children, he managed to find a good place for each, either as his successor, in the army, in trading, in magical or religious studies, or well-married.

He found a good place for them all, except for his last child, Albret. Who is a dandy with no magical talent, the strength of faith of a potato, and who's unable to do complex equations. Albret's only quality is avoiding getting hit in a fight, mainly by avoiding getting in one. He likes to spend his day lazily, drinking wine, playing music (badly), writing (bad) poems and seducing women's (not that badly).

Where do the PCs fit in you say? Well Albret's noble father discovered that his son kinda sorta awkwardly fitted the first part of some prophecy (not to sure how exactly, probably something like: the hero was born from a lion that was tamed by a hare, the animals corresponding to the emblems of his parents). He figured, meh, it's better for my son to accomplish some kind of prophecy than lying around doing nothing all day.

So, he hire the PCs who already have a reputation for being competent and trustworthy, he give them a nice sum of money and a copy of the legend/prophecy and promise them a nice pay for every part of the prophecy they make sure his son accomplish.

In my head the whole campaign would be quite open-ended, the PCs have a nebulous task to accomplish and many way to do so. If one of the part of the prophecy was about slaying the beast of Qualig, the PCs could either find where was the town of Qualig 500 years ago, or build a new town called Qualig close to a beast (or just put the beast there themselves). Then they could confront some kind of fearsome beast and do most of the job for Albret, or boost him with a lot of spells, or make sure the beast is actually quite weak even though it look fearsome (boar + enlarge + illusion could make for some convincing fiendish beast)….

But here’s my question: what should the tasks/quests described in the prophecy be like? That and I’d like some opinion on the whole thing: what should Albret’s build be like? What problem could I face? How do I make sure my PCs stay engaged?

[GoblinArchmage]

So you basically want the PCs to play secondary characters helping an annoying "chosen one?" You should know that the PCs will undoubtedly hate Albret, and they will probably kill him. I would.

[ko_sct]

No, basically this is what I want to avoid, I'd like advice on how to avoid it, my idea would be a sandbox game where the player are the puppeteers.

They have a vague objectif to accomplish and they have to set-up the world so it work.

Like, if one part of the prophecy was to unite 2 warring nations, the PCs would have to manipulate from shadow so it become advantageous for both nation to cease war.

The whole thing will probably never happen, since I don't have time to game right now and I have a few more well-thought ideas i'd run first if I ever get time to set-up a game

[BrokenChord]

Here's a pretty awesome campaign idea if you go over it with your players at first so they know at least that the character they meet at the beginning won't be sticking around. Bring out your possible DMPC, make him really arrogant and Mary Sue-ish and sideline the players in their first dungeon crawl with his apparent plot powers. Give some big consequences for the prophecy not being fulfilled and make him the legitimate Chosen One, not a lame copout like many stories do to try to subvert what comes next.

Murder his ass brutally. Boom, sudden plot. There is no "Chosen One", the prophecy is crapsacked, nobody can harness the ancient magics or wield the holy sword or whatever. And it's up to the PCs, through ingenuity, gathering allies, or sheer heroism to break the other part of the prophecy in half. The scales are tipped way against them. As far as the all-seeing prophecy can tell, their chances of success are exactly 0%. There's no need to fudge dice or fiat them to safety, they succeed or they die.

I like this kind of thing as a player, personally. Especially more than helping some other guy fulfill the DM's fantasies and leaving myself the "sidekick".

[fishyfishyfishy]

No, basically this is what I want to avoid, I'd like advice on how to avoid it, my idea would be a sandbox game where the player are the puppeteers.

They have a vague objectif to accomplish and they have to set-up the world so it work.

Like, if one part of the prophecy was to unite 2 warring nations, the PCs would have to manipulate from shadow so it become advantageous for both nation to cease war.

The whole thing will probably never happen, since I don't have time to game right now and I have a few more well-thought ideas i'd run first if I ever get time to set-up a game

If this is something you want, you will need to be up front about your intentions with the players beforehand and make sure they are ok with this type of game. Anything less and they will turn against you.

[Invader]

I don't know, I could see this as being a little fun. It's kind of be like a choose your own adventure campaign.

[ko_sct]

That's a nice idea, Brokenchord, I like it a lot.

One thing that wasn't clear in my first post is that I wouldn't have definitive idea on how the prophecy must be fulfiled and the Albert dude would probably have a very bland and simply personality, not something to get attach too, but more something to manipulate.

One thing I though of, would be what happen if (when) Albret die ? The simple answer would be to bring him back to life, but if the starting conditions of the prophecy are vague enough, I could see the PCs saying: Screw that ! One of us will be the hero of prophecy !

Pretty much all of our campaign have more or less sandbox games, I'm just throwing an idea that occurred to me here



Edit: also, yes, this is not something I would hide from the player, they would have a general idea of the game before it started


Edit2: What I am mostly looking for is idea of what should the prophecy include. I looked at some inspiration from mythologies like Heracles and Ulysses by I'm not a huge fan of most of the things I see... So far I got:
1: Battle some big monster
2: Do a manual task, but on some impossible scale (from Heracles cleaning the stable of the king, maybe polishing all the infinite golds of a dragon ?
3: Bring a extremely long-lasting war to an end (could be peace, could be one side winning, could be both side getting nuked, whatever)

[Invader]

Hire a group of roguish types to "kidnap" the noble. Meanwhile have the bandits or whoever decide to double cross the PC's and actually take him prompting the PC's to undertake getting him back out actual danger.

[BrokenChord]

The prophecy? Make it big, flashy, but cliche. Nothing that makes them doubt that they really need to stop it. Hellfire raining from the sky, the gates to the Abyss break open and demon armies will march in alongside red dragons and other generally unpleasant things. The place to sow doubt and to keep things interesting and unique is in the bad guys/forces of evil that are bringing about this calamity. Bring those characters to life, make the PCs love to hate them and hate themselves for sympathizing with them, and that will make the campaign memorable, far more than any uniqueness in the prophecy itself might.

[Stoneback]

Never make your PCs play second fiddle.

If you really need to inflict this guy on them, let them find the problem, discover the prophecy, divine the chosen one, and work hard to convince his dad that they need him.

Then when he turns out to be a lazy, annoying jerk, they're already too invested to murder him on sight.

I would then hand the character sheet over to your most experienced RPer to control as a secondary character. Since, after all, he's just the MacGuffin and not the center of the campaign.

If he really IS the center of the campaign, then you're doing it wrong. Your players' characters need to be the center of the campaign.

[icefractal]

Actually, this sounds like a lot of fun, as long as the players bought into the premise from the start. Personally, I'd enjoy it - most people just hear about prophecies, heroes follow the prophecies, real pros make the prophecies.

The question is - does Albret have to think he accomplished this stuff himself? That would be the "hard mode" option - it's a lot easier to fake things with a willing participant than while trying to fool the 'hero' as well. It could be all the more satisfying for that difficulty though.

However, it could also make Albert more annoying. A "hero" who knows he's not up to the task and appreciates the assistance could be sympathetic. One who thinks he's accomplishing all this stuff himself and the PCs are just guides or something would be less so. So if you're not sure how much player buy-in you have, I'd go with the "Albert is in on it" angle.

[Invader]

Never make your PCs play second fiddle.

If you really need to inflict this guy on them, let them find the problem, discover the prophecy, divine the chosen one, and work hard to convince his dad that they need him.

Then when he turns out to be a lazy, annoying jerk, they're already too invested to murder him on sight.

I would then hand the character sheet over to your most experienced RPer to control as a secondary character. Since, after all, he's just the MacGuffin and not the center of the campaign.

If he really IS the center of the campaign, then you're doing it wrong. Your players' characters need to be the center of the campaign.


Its not fair to say hes doing it wrong simply because you might not like the idea and honestly PC's come in second all the time to the damsel in distress, the village that needs saved, or the the magical mcguffin that'll save the world. Just because in this case its a person that is part of the group doesn't mean it cant be dont well and turn out to be a lot of fun.

[weckar]

Albret could actively work against the party, trying to prove he is NOT the chosen one, so he can get back to his life of leisure.

[Aedilred]

I like the general idea (and don't have too much of a problem with DMPCs in any case, so long as they're contained, and it sounds like this guy will be). So long as you think/know/check your players will be on board I think it's fine.



Edit2: What I am mostly looking for is idea of what should the prophecy include. I looked at some inspiration from mythologies like Heracles and Ulysses by I'm not a huge fan of most of the things I see... So far I got:
1: Battle some big monster
2: Do a manual task, but on some impossible scale (from Heracles cleaning the stable of the king, maybe polishing all the infinite golds of a dragon ?
3: Bring a extremely long-lasting war to an end (could be peace, could be one side winning, could be both side getting nuked, whatever)
The classic "hero's quest" checklist would include some or all of the following:

1. Prove his worth. It might be assumed that accomplishing the other items on the list is enough to prove the hero's worth, but there might be a specific thing he needs to do first (or last) or some identifiable physical characteristic he needs to possess. Or some identifiable physical characteristic he needs to fake. May also take the form of:

Test of strength. Show off your muscles by lifting or moving something heavy or difficult (e.g. stringing Odysseus's bow)
Test of courage. Face apparently certain death without flinching.
Test of endurance. Survive something that's inflicting a lot of pain or damage.
Test of spirit/loyalty. Do something that is overtly heroic, sacrifice yourself for a comrade, etc. (e.g. prisoner's dilemma)

Sometimes the items are combined. For instance, the test of spirit and endurance might well be taken together as a single test to see whether, say, an individual will betray a friend or confidence under torture.

2. Kill the Monster. This can be re-used as many times as you like, provided that each new monster is sufficiently original and given an impressive enough backstory.

3. Fetch the Things. These things can be anything, ranging from random rubbish just to prove the hero has what it takes, through assembling the "kit" the hero will need to complete the practical parts of the prophecy (the kit doesn't have to be physical and can include information garnered from specific sources), to recruiting specific allies or even retrieving monsters alive (like Heracles and Cerberus). The Thing may be guarded by a monster, and killing, or specifically not killing, the monster, may form part of the task.

4. Avoid temptation. Usually combined with something that makes the temptation particularly hard to resist (e.g. don't drink from the desert well, Orpheus and Eurydice, the Sirens). May be used as a straightforward test of faith or ability to follow instructions (in which case this will fall under the first item on the list), especially if the task is made arbitrarily hard or there are no practical consequences for failure.

I think that actually covers the majority of the classic "hero's tasks". There are more esoteric things, of course, but I'd say most of the things you get your party to do should be along the lines of the above.

There's a slightly separate category of "impossible tasks" which tend to be tests of ingenuity rather than stamina, courage or strength. As a result I think these should be limited in number just because too many brain-teasers will get annoying for your players (and if they see through it and solve it very quickly, it's almost as bad). These tend to be along the lines of:

1. Do something unreasonably quickly or on an unreasonable scale (which amounts to the same thing if it can't be done in the scope of the adventure or a human lifetime). The Augean stables are the classic example.

2. Perform an arduous task with inadequate equipment (fill a swimming pool with a leaky bucket). Can be combined with the above.

3. Do something apparently mundane but with unannounced dangerous consequences (e.g. sowing a field with dragons' teeth; the teeth turn into soldiers when you're finished and kill you).

4. Outcompete a natural phenomenon (e.g. outrun lightning, drink the sea, lift the sky, etc.) The phenomenon in question may be disguised (and usually is). Usually reserved for explicitly supernatural challengers, and almost always actually impossible, used to see how well they do, or just to humiliate them.

5. Survive or navigate a dangerous location. Sometimes the location will contain a monster or monsters which makes it more dangerous, but often the place itself will be inherently dangerous anyway. (e.g. the Labyrinth, the clashing rocks of Symplegades, Scylla and Charybdis). Usually there is a trick to escaping completely unharmed.

6. Generic logic puzzles, practical physics and game-playing. Not so much a component of classical heroic quest but familiar enough in modern fantasy. May form part or all of a test of intelligence under "proving your worth".

As for ideas for such tests of ingenuity, they're probably going to be a personal thing (and I've never been that great at coming up with them) as you will have a better idea what your players will be able to figure out. Depending on how meta you want to be you could take cues from popular stories or films, and have that be the entirety of the clue. For instance, in one campaign I had a head-high scythe trap and a word puzzle a few rooms apart. When the party reached an apparently impassable chasm, they were pretty sure what was going on (although it would admittedly have been amusing if they had fallen to their deaths). Again, that's a personal thing, though: you may not want to take your players' minds out of character.

[Brookshw]

This is pretty good, I like it. The dmpc isn't even that, he's an npc who won't be doing much of anything, let alone succeeding at things, other than not dying. Okay, so the players don't have to worry too much about keeping him alive/protecting him.

Depending on how you portray the npc this could be hilarious. Whiny and inept all the way. Screwing things up and generally bumbling around. The pcs need to make sure the credit goes to him even if they do all the heavy lifting. Honestly I've had pc's adopt npc's to this effect without my planning. The more ironically the prophecy gets fulfilled the better. Maybe the pcs end up as mentors of a sort?

I don't think this needs to be a full campaign. A minicampaign might be better (but this depends on your campaigns, mine tend to last over a year and go high level if not epic). A 3 level portion could be good. This would also leave the pcs with a useful ally (father/son/both) later in the campaign.

[Segev]

I'll add my voice to the "this isn't really a DMPC as described" chorus, and sounds like, as long as it's in the pitch to the players so it's what they signed up for, it could be a fun premise.

Now, as to the prophecy, in order for it to be something worth spending this money to ensure his son meets, the prophecy has to have some meritorious end to it for the Chosen One. Why should people have cared enough about this Chosen One's prophesied deeds to be on the lookout for one who meets the criteria? Is it that he's going to do something great at the end of it? Is it that it's just a chain of heroic events that will make up a legend and help people identify that they're facing one of the problems, so find the guy who's solved these other problems first to find their destined hero?

So, what is the Destined One prophesied to do that makes people want to celebrate the man who is appearing to meet all the signs? Is he supposed to be a great king or conqueror? Is he destined to slay/seal/defeat/release a great evil? A great good? Is he destined to be the husband of some rich/powerful/beautiful woman? Given the one talent this particular "worthless noble boy" seems to have in any amount, is he destined to "father a great nation?"

If you want to go for ironic twists, perhaps he's destined to unite several warring (possibly cold-warring) kingdoms or to unite several races into one kingdom. Then proceed to have him, while the party is manufacturing, fulfilling, or seeking out the various signs, seduce the princesses and heiresses of each of them.

He will wind up uniting them through polygamy...or through having the irate fathers (or mothers) of each of these women pledge to set aside their differences and unite to bring him down for what he did to their daughters.

[Brookshw]

Oh! There's a REAL chosen one they must thwart. That or the chosen one keeps showing up just a bit to late to do what they were supposed to do. Near the campaign end he catches up to the party (preferably disheveled and a bit hysterical) to confront them for robbing him of his destiny.

[Sith_Happens]

So you basically want the PCs to play secondary characters helping an annoying "chosen one?"

From my reading, technically yes, but with the twist that the "chosen one" in question is not only inept, but may or may not be the actual chosen one in the first place, hopefully leading to comedic shenanigans as they drag him around by the nose attempting to get prophecy-related things done.

[Red Fel]

Hmm. At first, I thought there was a concept here that I loathed. But then I realized that underneath, there's the opportunity for roleplay gold.

Consider this. Instead of necessarily centering the campaign around this character, center a portion of it around him. And instead of making the idiot son out to be the Chosen One, make his father believe that he's the Chosen One - either because there have been Chosen Ones in their family for generations, or because of some prophecy, or because the father tells him that to motivate him, or because the father is just a nut. Either way, the father hires the PCs, not to adventure with his son, but to train him.

That's right. For a couple of sessions, the PCs get paid a boatload of cash/favors to take on an apprentice. The Wizard teaches wizardry, the Fighter teaches fencing, the Rogue teaches con artistry, the Bard teaches lechery, the Monk teaches useless emo. Each player has an opportunity to show off their character outside of a combat situation.

At the end of the mini-arc, you make a decision based upon how each player RP'ed out the training. Maybe the kid learned something, maybe he didn't; maybe he was motivated, maybe he wasn't; maybe he actually likes the PCs, maybe he hates their guts. PCs get paid, and one of several things happen:

1. The idiot noble has found his motivation, but knows he's not ready to be a hero yet. He asks if he can join the party. Congratulations, have a free Cohort!
2. The idiot noble has grown a pair, and shows potential. He's going to go off into the world to find his destiny. Daddy is so proud! Have some extra loot, and a potential NPC you may run into later.
3. The idiot noble is still an idiot, and lacks motivation. Daddy is disappointed, and probably holds a grudge against you. Enjoy a noble enemy!
4. The idiot noble has learned a few things, but he hates the PCs' guts! Have a recurring nemesis!

Basically, you've just gone from your initial premise, which involves the PCs, at best, trying to paint an NPC as some sort of destined hero, to a choose-your-own adventure where the PCs can effectively create their own ally - or their own enemy! And because it only lasts for a few sessions, instead of the entire campaign, you can cut it short if the players get annoyed with the whiny little prat.

Let the little bugger overcome his own tests. The PCs shouldn't have to do that for him. Instead, let the PCs teach him the heroing biz. Everyone loves a chance to show off and flex their muscles. See if your players prefer that.

[rexx1888]

can Albret not be played by a player?? i dunno if this has been suggested, but id personally get a kick out of playing that character an would play it to the hilt :P

[SassyQuatch]

I could see this as a "save the cheerleader, save the world" sort of thing with the party's primary interests being to protect the NPC from harm and thus avert the apocalypse. It doesn't mean that the NPC is the hero, but still makes him valuable to have around.

NPC is the McGuffin, possibly (or even likely) uncooperative. The tropes of not wanting to be locked away, or of having an adventurous soul but not the talent to back up his yearnings, or even just feeling burdened by being the great chosen one and preferring to find a way to avoid the prophecy altogether would all work.

[squiggit]

Here's a pretty awesome campaign idea if you go over it with your players at first so they know at least that the character they meet at the beginning won't be sticking around. Bring out your possible DMPC, make him really arrogant and Mary Sue-ish and sideline the players in their first dungeon crawl with his apparent plot powers. Give some big consequences for the prophecy not being fulfilled and make him the legitimate Chosen One, not a lame copout like many stories do to try to subvert what comes next.

Murder his ass brutally. Boom, sudden plot. There is no "Chosen One", the prophecy is crapsacked, nobody can harness the ancient magics or wield the holy sword or whatever. And it's up to the PCs, through ingenuity, gathering allies, or sheer heroism to break the other part of the prophecy in half. The scales are tipped way against them. As far as the all-seeing prophecy can tell, their chances of success are exactly 0%. There's no need to fudge dice or fiat them to safety, they succeed or they die.

I like this kind of thing as a player, personally. Especially more than helping some other guy fulfill the DM's fantasies and leaving myself the "sidekick".

I tried this once. The players, instead of hating him, found him "so obnoxious and overbearing it's endearing" and kept him around for the whole damn campaign.

[Gray Mage]

I think it could work, but one thing that might make it unfun (at least it'd be for me) is if it'd turn into a very long escort mission, especially during combat. Having to babysit a non combatant, in particular during a dangerous fight might be stessfull for players. Having a way to keep him out of fights might be something good to keep in mind, IMO.

[BrokenChord]

I tried this once. The players, instead of hating him, found him "so obnoxious and overbearing it's endearing" and kept him around for the whole damn campaign.

I... I beg your pardon? They carried around his corpse for the whole campaign? :smalleek:

Or did you misinterpret what I said about murdering him, perhaps? I didn't mean the PCs would murder him. I mean he's doing his Mary Sue thing, maybe he's even about to fulfill the prophecy, and he suddenly gets offed in the appearance of the BBEG's right hand man... Or better yet, he just gets picked off by a mook's stray arrow.

Don't leave it to the PCs. Good PCs tend not to murder NPCs on grounds of mere annoyance. Evil ones might, but eh.

[Qwertystop]

I like Red Fel's idea.

The original idea reminds me a bit of a DS game I saw a review of a while back... hm...

<searches>

Ah yes, "My World, My Way". The main character is a spoiled princess who wants to be an adventurer. End result: The king, without telling her, hires people to rig up a safe adventure for his little girl. This mostly involves landscaping to get a Swamp Area, an Ice Area, etc, all with their own quickly-assembled town with a blacksmith and an innkeeper (same guys running ahead). Takes her a while to figure it out. Also, you can pout to get things changed - more XP, easier fights, more loot, more enemies. Funny, if not as well done as it might have been. Oddly, several reviewers got annoyed at how all the towns were the same - seems they didn't get the joke.

Anyway, that seemed sort of similar, in that you've got an incompetent noble and a bunch of skilled people hired to set things up for them to look cool.

[Jacob.Tyr]

I would try and make him sympathetic, personally. "Look, guys, I'm not cut out for this but i'll go along with it so you can collect your pay and I'll try to stay out of the way."

Task idea- End a war between two factions (maybe use two animals ahain), when no such war is even going on. Do they start a war between cities? A noble feud? Maybe put a duck and llama in an arena and try to get them to fight so he can break it up?

[cakellene]

Go the Bards's Tale route and have them find failed Chosen Ones along the way to loot.

Another thought, in Dragon's Quest IV you have to guide a cowardly prince through a rite of passage and he keeps running away from task.