3.5: Tales of Survival at the Earliest of Levels

[Adept_Scholar]

A party of 1st-level adventurers face an approximate 50% chance of a character death during nearly every encounter (assuming C.R. or E.L. 1) with the consideration there appears to be very little "wiggle room" for a D.M. to form multiple decent encounters (combat) lower than C.R. or E.L. 1 to provide an easier, less risky, manner for P.C.s to gain experience. With it taking roughly 13-14 encounters before advancement to 2nd-level, it would seem to me to be the toughest time for a character & party to move forward. Therefore, I am interested in hearing your experiences of survival and advancement as a P.C. during this time period between your 1st and 2nd-level as well as how D.M.s have handled those 13-14+ encounters during said period. Perhaps via highlighting more story-based or role-playing awards? Providing experience for solving a "challenging" puzzle or two? Feel free to share your tales of experience, perceptions, and personal insights. :smallwink:

[hemming]

I think the first mission in my current campaign went something like (spoiler for space):

The LE PCs are working for a Mafioso type operation. They have intel that another clan/gang is trading with a merchant in their territory.

A spy planted in the enemy clan has informed the group of a shipment being moved through their turf at night (time and partial route) - but does not know what it contains, final destination or who is receiving it.

Their mission from the mob boss: intercept the shipment; find out where it is going and who it is going to; (optional) impersonate the enemy guards and complete the deal; (optional) capture the rogue merchant and bring him in;

-if optional elements are failed, find and kill the merchant

So the PCs set up an ambush en-route - I had two CR1 guards with the shipment (a rather tough encounter), but the PCs had a surprise round and terrain advantages. They actually made a roadblock by disabling a cart, forcing the shipment to stop and took up well protected positions (XP for tactical planning + encounter). The beguiler burned all her spells in this encounter I think.

They managed to take a guard alive but failed diplomacy/intimidate to get him to talk (I think I gave XP for RP anyway). I had a lockbox with a dossier with the shipment however - I gave the lockbox a 3 letter combination w/ parchment note "clue" on one of the guards (XP for puzzle solving).

PCs hide guards in alley and follow instructions from dossier. Meet up with the merchant at warehouse, party face makes bluff checks to complete deal (merchant has gold well-hidden, so failing to complete deal = less gold for mafia - XP for RP).

PCs now decide to surprise attack merchant (CR 1/2) and bodyguard (CR1)- beguiler goes down to low negative HP and is stabilized by cleric. Fighter and cleric finish encounter, manage to kill bodyguard and subdue merchant. Take him back to the boss for some mafia justice (XP for encounter - XP and gold bonus for completing all optional objectives).

There was obviously more to the session both before and following the above, but that was the crux of mission stuff w/ XP.


Depending on the nature of you game/setting - adding relatively short missions w/ side quests during the session (i.e. the PCs witness a mugging in progress in the street; the storekeepers basement is infested w/ giant beetles, etc.) is a good way to introduce new NPCs and get the party familiar with the world. Short quest or side quests can be a tool to encourage the PCs to more fully interact with the NPCs/setting while having the virtue of being survivable and not halting progress of an ongoing storyline. They tend to become less relevant as the party levels and needs greater challenges

[Captnq]

I converted and ran treasure hunt.

0-level. Top that.

[Endarire]

Some editions prior to D&D 3.0 had negative levels, such as level -3 (that's level negative three).

Beyond that, it's a matter of, say, charming foes into killing each other (or wounding each other) so you can get the EXP. Swooping in for the kill and last hitting, League of Legends style, may be required.

[Ruethgar]

-.- Lvl 1 is the weakest yes, but even when not really optimizing I build my characters to solo level appropriate encounters in case my party members are new to the game, fools, not serious or otherwise would impede or at least not add to the group.

[some guy]

A party of 1st-level adventurers face an approximate 50% chance of a character death during nearly every encounter (assuming C.R. or E.L. 1)

I think you're a bit too pessimistic here. I would rather say there's a 25% chance of a character dropping below 0 hp (but not death) during CR/EL 1 encounters. Creatures with a CR below 1 don't do that much damage (except the orc, which also has a high attack bonus for a CR 1/2 monster). Creatures with a CR of 1 are certainly lethal for 1 pc, but it's usually 1 against 4 (and there are not too many CR 1 monsters with dangerous ranged attacks).
But still, lvl 1 is a dangerous level. I usually give my players hints and knowledge checks so they can evaluate the risk (and gain an upper hand through surprise and tactics) and give them oppurtunities to flee. It more or less works.

[Sir Chuckles]

As a party of 3 4th level characters, my group defeated a Gargantuan Undead Spiked Kraken without losing a single person.
We did lose the Cleric's fullplate, however. And a boat.

[Inevitability]

:smallconfused: Now I want to hear the story behind this.

[Adept_Scholar]

Creatures with a CR below 1 don't do that much damage (except the orc, which also has a high attack bonus for a CR 1/2 monster). Creatures with a CR of 1 are certainly lethal for 1 pc, but it's usually 1 against 4 (and there are not too many CR 1 monsters with dangerous ranged attacks).

While I agree that a sole C.R. 1 encounter involving only one opponent, e.g. a wolf, may be a bit easier due to overwhelming odds in favor of the P.C.s (the wolf may knock one character unconscious before being overrun), that same dictated C.R. of 1 involving 4 kobolds with crossbows may prove a different story and could only begin to speculate how a party of 1st-level P.C.s would be able to survive four such encounters or similar (e.g. goblins) before needing to rest (a la pg. 49 in the 3.5 D.M. Guide). :smalleek:

[Know(Nothing)]

My admittedly limited experience with level 1 involved being a Dread Necro with 2 rogues up against a large animated object. So all our in-house abilities were worthless against it, but with some creative play, some flammable materials, and a well-placed hero point, we burned the mindless jerk down while waiting patiently outside its reach.

[hemming]

that same dictated C.R. of 1 involving 4 kobolds with crossbows may prove a different story and could only begin to speculate how a party of 1st-level P.C.s would be able to survive four such encounters or similar (e.g. goblins) before needing to rest (a la pg. 49 in the 3.5 D.M. Guide). :smalleek:

Terms of engagement matter - are these 4 kobolds noisily gathered around a fire munching on a meal when the PCs spot them or are they waiting in ambush?

4 kobolds with slings would be the same CR and a lot less deadly (unless they are the infamous Tuckers kobolds)

3 PCs can use a doorframe to fight each enemy exiting a room one at a time (assuming a dumb aggressive enemy), etc., etc.

Have the PCs found or been given any cure light wounds or other useful items?

I like giving the PCs a few tough encounters in which they have definite advantages because I can give them better treasure per encounter and level them in fewer encounters. Because the intervals between opportunities for rest are short but tough, the PCs can quickly gain xp, rest up and spend treasure to toughen up for the next set of encounters. Also, bonus xp for everything

This isn't for everyone or for every game, but its one way to approach

[Sith_Happens]

While I agree that a sole C.R. 1 encounter involving only one opponent, e.g. a wolf, may be a bit easier due to overwhelming odds in favor of the P.C.s (the wolf may knock one character unconscious before being overrun), that same dictated C.R. of 1 involving 4 kobolds with crossbows may prove a different story and could only begin to speculate how a party of 1st-level P.C.s would be able to survive four such encounters or similar (e.g. goblins) before needing to rest (a la pg. 49 in the 3.5 D.M. Guide). :smalleek:

First off, the CR 1/4 Kobold Warrior in the Monster Manual uses a sling. Replacing that with a crossbow is enough of a damage increase to warrant an increase to at least CR 1/2.

[Calinero]

At level 1 I was in a Pathfinder party that went through a prewritten Dungeon crawl--something or other of the Everflame, I believe.

In retrospect, the dungeon probably would have been pretty easy if we had had a good cleric instead of an evil cleric. Unfortunately, we had an evil cleric. And almost every single thing we fought was either undead or a construct, meaning that our cleric's pulses were useless. We came so close to death so many times in that dungeon...the only we that we were able to survive the boss fight was that our fighter "cheated" and started looting the room while the skeleton was still alive. Ended up finding some of the cool swag and using it to kill the boss.

[Adept_Scholar]

4 kobolds with slings would be the same CR and a lot less deadly (unless they are the infamous Tuckers kobolds)


First off, the CR 1/4 Kobold Warrior in the Monster Manual uses a sling. Replacing that with a crossbow is enough of a damage increase to warrant an increase to at least CR 1/2.

This leads me to wonder how much a creature/opponent's damage output influences its C.R...:smallamused: In the scenario I stated with the kobolds and crossbows, I assumed both parties being aware of one another with no surprise round. I suppose if one C.R. 1 creature is a fairly easy contest for four 1st-level P.C.s (assuming fairly rested/prepared) and the previously mentioned encounter with the kobolds would be fairly tougher, a D.M. would just have to balance between those two points of challenge at this somewhat fragile stage...(By the way, when you quote, how do you attach the poster's name beforehand so as to provide a link for inquiring minds)? :smallconfused:

[Sith_Happens]

This leads me to wonder how much a creature/opponent's damage output influences its C.R...:smallamused:

In this case you're talking about the difference between dropping a Fighter in nine hits (with the sling) versus four (with the crossbow), so... Yeah, that's quite a bit of a challenge difference.

Resource-wise (which CR is based on somewhat more so than chance of death), it's the difference between a Cure Light healing (on average) 4.125 hits versus ~1.57 hits. Once again, huge difference.


I suppose if one C.R. 1 creature is a fairly easy contest for four 1st-level P.C.s (assuming fairly rested/prepared) and the previously mentioned encounter with the kobolds would be fairly tougher, a D.M. would just have to balance between those two points of challenge at this somewhat fragile stage...

That's the crux of how it's supposed to work.


(By the way, when you quote, how do you attach the poster's name beforehand so as to provide a link for inquiring minds)? :smallconfused:

By clicking the "Quote" button in the bottom-right corner of the post. For quoting multiple posts, use the Quote button for the last one and the "+ button for the others.

[jedipotter]

Therefore, I am interested in hearing your experiences of survival and advancement as a P.C. during this time period between your 1st and 2nd-level as well as how D.M.s have handled those 13-14+ encounters during said period. Feel free to share your tales of experience, perceptions, and personal insights. :smallwink:

Well, first off, it is not like you have 15 encounters lined up, one after another, at the same time. They are spread out a bit over time.

Some encounters are easy. The group of kobolds just ''run in and attack'' without using any type of strategy. This makes them easy targets. Or foes don't have any missile weapons or traps or the like. Or even if the goblins have crossbows, they each only have three bolts.

Some encounters can be role-played. The group might be able to tick the orc guards into leaving their post. Or fast talk there way into a safe zone. They might even get a foe to lower their guard or set down their weapons.

Some encounters get a set up where the group can ready an attack. If they know the goblins attack at 7, they can set up traps ans such ahead of time.

And in a general sense, a group of adventures is powerful....even more so if they work together. As a team, they can take out plenty of big, bad foes.

[Yogibear41]

DMG. Page 105-106 1st level warrior hireling costs 2 silver pieces a day, and do not take XP from you. Spend a gold piece hire 5 of those bad boys send them in, sit in the back and miss with your light crossbow sling because crossbows cost money. Level 1 easy. :smallsmile:

[Buufreak]

About a year ago we had a fresh new party with many d20 virgins, and there was plenty of small fights in the first dungeon we explored. As the party tank, I had my fair share of bruises, particularly when blindsided by an orc who rolled a nat 20. The DM tried to remain fair, but understood how much of an uphill battle it was, and gave out experience based on not only the combat, but also who was able to stay in character well, avoid breaking the 4th wall, and a small lump sum when we finished the quest. Sure enough, it all got smoother by the time we reached Lvl2 and had a few stats and options to play with.